lmc Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 No matter at what pour temp I try, the C3 is giving me #*@! Today I tried tempering the wax and adding 1/2 tsp of CO, and for the first time-NO wet spot (but for how long?!). Before I continue testing would like to know if C3 should always be tempered to avoid wet spots and discourage frosting...main concern is the wet spots. I've never encountered this with CBA although I have read many posts that this is quite normal BUT I would like to do whatever I can to discourage it-TIA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjdaines Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Didn't know that tempering helped wet spot and am not sure how that would work, frosting, yes, it is supposed to help with that. CO gets added for a lot of things and I'm not sure what it really helps with, it didn't do much for me but I was using a different wax. Heating the container is supposed to help with wet spots and I have noticed that it helps me some. For working with soy I'd be happy to trade frosting for wet spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 I poured 6 different testers ( 2 different size jars-wicking) without tempering the wax and every one of them had wet spots...then I added the CO and tempered the wax for another tester and it had a smooth top, no frosting, and no wetspot. I have no problem continuing tempering-as long as the end result is always this consistent and that it really is the tempering doing it and not some other variable I'm not aware of yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 PLEASE read up on all this... recently we have discussed the formation of wet spots and how to reduce the incidence of them in at least 3 separate threads. Tempering has nothing to do with remediation of wet spots. Tempering helps stabilize the wax from morphing. It does not eliminate polymorphism.Adding CO does NOTHING for wet spots. CO helps polymorphism somewhat, but not as much as USA, tempering and proper handling techniques.If you read up on CBA, it is formulated to contract slightly so it doesn't have areas where it is adhered tightly and areas where it doesn't (wet spots). NatureWax C3 is formulated to have tight adhesion to the glass. Temperature changes cause much of the issues with wet spots in formulas designed to adhere to the glass. This is not something you can mitigate with tempering or coconut oil. You can use clean jars, prewarm slightly, and store at reasonable temps, but when the temp drops or the candles cool a little too quickly, "wet spots" will form where the wax has pulled away from the glass in some places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 Thanks...I have read where it's the temp that promotes this but my home has been right at 76 with little humidity for the past several days (Phx is great for that during fall and winter)...I'll continue to read up on this and try warming the jars first-haven't tried this yet. ?-with the C3 I seem to get smoother tops pouring at 110*-sink holes at higher temps-so would it be beneficial to still prewarm jars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 Stella, just read an old post from you where you talk about washing the jars before pouring with Parsons-I've only wiped out the glassware before pouring:embarasse..mmm think I'll start my day with a sinkful of jars thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisters3 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Is this an example of what you are calling "wet spots" ?See on the 8oz jelly jar, the gray area. If this is what you are talking about I have a way that worked for me to fix before show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deb426 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Wetspots can appear later even if you end up with a perfect candle. If the finished candle goes through a temperature change, a wet spot can appear. You can only do so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 sisters3-your solution please! deb426-yes, I have noticed that on just a couple of my older ones...I just want to give the candle the best chance possible LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisters3 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Imc, I assume what shows on my candle IS what you are referring too, right? I just always called it shrinkage and does absolutely happen with temp change, in my experience a DROP in temp. Anyhow, I use GB464 and this happened to a batch that I poured for a show. My fix, and it STUCK was to heat very, very carefully the outside of the jar with a heat gun, IT DOES NOT TAKE MUCH AT ALL, so be careful, wrap a tea towel around the candle, don't let it drop big in temp again. I used this fix at 7:00am, had to fix about (20) candles, set up for the show at 12:00noon, and checked the candles all the time during the show (inside) and they stayed fixed. My experience is that this can happen to any candle when the temp drops and drops fast. I will tell you that the more that I decrease the temp differential between my wax and my containers the less problem I have with shrinkage (or wet spots) Hope this helps, I'm sure no expert but have had this happen and now it does not happen much anymore at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjdaines Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I will tell you that the more that I decrease the temp differential between my wax and my containers the less problem I have with shrinkage (or wet spots) Hope this helps, I'm sure no expert but have had this happen and now it does not happen much anymore at all.I will warm my containers before adding the molten wax and it does help but will not completely cure wet spots. The problem is that glass and wax contract to different amounts since they are not the same material. Fixing wet spots is no guarantee that they will stay gone either but it is nice to have the best looking product as one can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Stella, just read an old post from you where you talk about washing the jars before pouring with ParsonsYep - it's a buttpain, but it's the surest way to give the glassware the best start with no residue. You can use original formula Dawn, too, but it's real important to use HOT water both to wash and to rinse. The good part is that the jars will air-dry fast.with the C3 I seem to get smoother tops pouring at 110*-sink holes at higher temps-so would it be beneficial to still prewarm jars? This is one of those "different strokes" things - you're in Phoenix where it's high, warm and dry; I'm in LA where it's low, warm and humid. Overall, C3 works best heated to 185°F, add prewarmed FO & dye, stir down to 165°F and pour into a slightly warmed container (I use a heat gun for this - you can prewarm in the oven, but the glassware should not be so warm that it cannot be handled comfortably - just a little warm, not hot). Lower than 160° begins a troubled road until about 125°F when things tend to smooth out again. Tempering C3 helps it a lot. Stirring almost constantly helps it a lot. Cooling slowly and evenly helps it a lot. Using USA helps a lot, too. If the candles cool too quickly or unevenly, sinkholes result, the dreaded C3 crack appears and shrinkage (wet spots) will visit you. Even if the candles look perfect right after cooling to room temp, it isn't unusual for wet spots or syneresis to develop overnight on newly poured candles which have not been protected from a temperature drop. As the wax crystals harden, the candles do seem to become more resistant to this... but it's impossible to eliminate completely and not worth wear and tear on your last nerve.Fixing wet spots is no guarantee that they will stay gone either but it is nice to have the best looking product as one can.Yep. I know that the heat gun can resolve this, as sisters3 described, but I also know that the spots can and will return (it's not winter in PA yet LOL). I do not get a big picture of me running around with a heat gun every time I see a wet spot. I am especially loathe to apply heat to the outside of glass containers because this can promote frosting. It's also why I don't much care for using heatguns on the top, too.Climate does play a role. Here, I have troubles with them in winter (when the temps drop) and summer (when the AC units go on). Spring and fall are usually the best times of year for me for no wet spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisters3 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Oh you are so right Stella, winter is not here yet, but 31 tonight and I STILL have not moved my workshop from the garage. YIKES!!Susan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 Thanks! I will try washing, prewarming, and pouring at higher temp. I gave up too quickly on 464 (burned a tester that cured for 2 weeks and wow!) but will not make same mistake twice lol-so far I really like the ct from C3 and burned a tester this morning that only cured for 3 days (wick testing-AGAIN) and was really happy with the ht already. Stella-I add the fo at 160* and have not tried pouring at such a high temp, but I'm going to temper with a little CO, then try pouring it at 160* into warmed, clean jar and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 Didn't know that tempering helped wet spot and am not sure how that would work, frosting, yes, it is supposed to help with that. I'm still testing and learning and reading and researching-sometimes I do too many variables so I'm not sure what is helping or hurting. Tempering has definetly helped with the smoothness of the top but I haven't tried adding color yet-still working on wicking and how to deter those @#*# wet spots lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) Stella-I add the fo at 160* and have not tried pouring at such a high temp, but I'm going to temper with a little CO, then try pouring it at 160* into warmed, clean jar and see what happens.Please try what I recommended. Leave out the CO for now since you don't have a good handle on how straight C3 works yet. (If you do choose to use it, no more than 1/2 Tbsp PP. Melt the CO WITH the wax - don't just add it after the wax has melted.) Heat C3 to 185°F. Add prewarmed FO & dye (if any) then stir down to 165°F & pour into slightly warmed (no more than 100°F), clean glassware.Cool on a rack protected from drafts so it will not cool too quickly. If you are making only one candle, you may want to throw a paper towel over the top LOOSELY to help slow down the cooling a tad - depends on your ambient room temp in the area of the candle. BTW, this works for 464 also. Both waxes perform better poured on the hot side than slush. When you say you are "tempering," exactly what are you doing?sometimes I do too many variables so I'm not sure what is helping or hurtingUh huh... ***shakes arthritic finger*** One thing at a time, Grasshopper!! Think methodically and keep methodical notes. That is how you will find a "method" that works. Edited October 27, 2011 by Stella1952 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 Stella, when I temper I just melt the wax in a double boiler to 185* stirring intermittently, then I remove pour pot and place on a cutting board on counter and let cool till hardened (4 to 6 hours at least) then I remelt in double boiler to 185*-remove pot-add fo at 160* stir for 2 minutes then intermittently till pour temp...140, 130, 120, and now 110*. When I do add CO (1/2 tsp p 12oz) its done as soon as I put wax into pot before melting (during the 1st time when I temper it). I don't prewarm the fo..I wait to add it when wax cools to 160*-so far I have no complaints as far as ht goes :smiley2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 winter is not here yet, but 31 tonight and I STILL have not moved my workshop from the garageBetter bring your newly poured babies in, or it's wet spots in the morning for you!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisters3 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Better bring your newly poured babies in, or it's wet spots in the morning for you!!Oh dear...wish I could have. I'm on the road on business..my full time business about 5 hours from home. Believe me I've been thinking about the babies being so cold but nothing I can do about it. I can only hope that the way they stored will help them be OK....We'll see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Ya gotta keep making money to support your new addiction MUAHAHAHAHAHA!!!Even if they do pull away, when they come inside and warm to room temp for a few days, they should right themselves somewhat. And they'll still smell and burn just as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisters3 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Ya gotta keep making money to support your new addiction MUAHAHAHAHAHA!!!Even if they do pull away, when they come inside and warm to room temp for a few days, they should right themselves somewhat. And they'll still smell and burn just as well.Now THAT makes me happy Stella...knowing the new babies will eventually be ok Oh how bout it, gotta make it to spend it...on my PASSION Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 Took your advice...washed jars, prewarmed them, poured at 160* and instead of putting them straight on counter top I put a silicone mat underneath them, and spaced them a little closer together-low and behold not a wetspot in sight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeni18 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 (edited) THANK you Sisters3, I have just made my second ever sale of 10 jars which I found out were discontinued, and I have exactly 10 left and thought one was forever ruined. I just touched it up with the heatgun and the big spots are gone. When it's for my own use I don't care at all but you want them to be perfect when selling them. Thank you thank you! Edited November 13, 2011 by jeni18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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