morethanrubies Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 I had another thread going where I was trying to decide on a jar and downsize from several sized to 1 size. After much help from many and specifics from Candybee... I have switched to the 9 oz straight side from Fillmore... I just did a batch in these jars end of last week and let them cure for about 5 days now.I have CS Pumpkin Souffle lit right now which is usally a great thrower for me and I have used the following 9 oz jar80/20 GB415 & Ecosoya CBA for smooth tops (may go down as low as 10%)CD 12 wickI have a full burn pool that has taken about 4 hours to get and is leaving a tad on the side. The throw is OK... I suspect this is because of the amount of time to get a burn pool and my wick is too wimpy.I use to always use apothecary jars and double wick with Simple Soy wicks.I am wondering if anyone would share what they might use for wicking in this scenario as a start to my testing. Thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 You didn't mention the diameter... but it is normal and desirable for soy candles not to attain FMP during the first test burn. You should be testing for 1 hour per inch of candle diameter. Keep testing all the way to the end of the candle (unless the wick drowns completely or becomes a torch) and if you can, post some photos. Be sure to keep good notes on your testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morethanrubies Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 I think I messed up my subscriptions on the forum and I need to fix them because I hadn't seen this! My jar diameter is about 2.75", maybe a tad wider. I am just completely flustered with my candles altogether. I was using IGI6006 for 4 years... though they burned clean down the sides, and the throw was great, I hated the black soot left on the jars. So began my search for no more paraffin. At first I used 464, wasn't great then I went to CB Advanced and hated that. After reading around I am now testing a batch of 415 with about 10-15% CB Advanced for appearance and I am still not impressed with the hot throw =(I know you swear by C-3 (yes I've stalked you a bit lol). Can I probe your mind on why, cure time, wick preference, and do you find it hard to find FOs that perform well in it?I am the point of giving up but I have spent way too much and I don't want to use 6006 any longer either. Thanks for any feedback! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morethanrubies Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 I also meant to ask you about this statement "but it is normal and desirable for soy candles not to attain FMP during the first test burn."Ever since I started making candles, I always learned/read that soy has a memory and if you don't get a FMP first time, then it will tunnel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjdaines Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Since you have had such good luck in the past with paraffin, have you considered trying 4630 or 4627?I use 464 with CD wicks and as has been mentioned on this board, one has to pick through FO and find which ones work with soy. There is no shortcut. I'd love to have clean-sided jars but wicking for that makes them too hot from about the midpoint to the end. Messy side tend to clean up at the last half of the burn. As for the mystery we call cure, again that is FO variable. I wait at least a week before a test burn. Make 2 or 3 candles, test one after a week and then leave the rest or 1 month and 2 months (just for fun). Some here won't wait more than a week, if it doesn't throw then then that FO is eliminated.I don't think switching to C3 will solve these issues for you but you may want to try one or both of those IGI waxes I mentioned above. I am testing 4630 and like it quite a bit, if wicked right I don't be the black soot. Oh, and wicking soy wax incorrectly can make plenty of black soot too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) I always learned/read that soy has a memory and if you don't get a FMP first time, then it will tunnel.That "memory" thing messes people up.First, you should be burning for 1 hour per inch of diameter. In your case 2.75-3 hours. If wicked properly, the candle will not attain a FMP during that tiime. It usually achieves FMP on the second burn, but with larger candles this might not happen until the third burn. This is all well and fine. We wick for the last half or third of the container where temperatures will be at their hottest. If the candle hits FMP in the first burn, it's a pretty decent bet it'll be a torch later on or the container will become too warm to handle. I like C3 but I don't swear by it - it has issues just like any other soy wax. I find it the most manageable for the amount of throw and appearance. I has been a very good performer for me - wicks well and has very good hot throw in most of the FOs I have tested. No soy wax is "easy"... it takes lots of testing and working with a wax to learn its deficiencies and how to maximixe its performance. Many people jump from wax to wax and end up wanting to tear their hair. Mixing waxes when you have had dififculty working with one is also generally the road to hell.My best suggestion is for you to pick a wax and stick with it. 415 has the best hot throw of all soy waxes. Unfortunately it has appearance issues. C3 is better than average on all counts. CBA is beautiful, but very finnicky about hot throw. 464 is similar to C3 but tends to give people more problems. Excel is better than average but is very pricey. Understand that wicking has a great deal to do with hot throw... try CDs or CDNs. Pouring temps and techniques have a great deal to do with appearance. It takes practice, an organized testing approach and keeping great data notes from each pour & test. Keep on truckin' - you'll get there! Edited October 4, 2011 by Stella1952 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morethanrubies Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 rjdaines and stella -- THANK YOU SO MUCH! I don't know why in over 4 years I haven't learned to wick for last half of jar! Maybe cause I never came to craftserver I think I may be overwicking in most cases then. I am letting them cure longer too, with 6006 the next day you could burn them.I think I will just stick with 415 and try to eliminate wick issues and find the FO that works best and of course continue to read up on this wax since I already have it and alot of people seem to use it. I appreciate all of the input!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorelei Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I'm a 415 user and I'd be happy to converse with you on anything you might be experiencing. I haven't used that jar but find that small jars sometimes need big wicks and visa versa. The testing never ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morethanrubies Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 Thank you so much Lorelei! I appreciate that. I am so far loving the cold throw of the 415 and hoping to maximize the hot throw. My current FO stash is primarily from CS, Just Scent and NG. I am working to find what works and what doesn't from these 3 companies of oils I already have before I venture out too much unless you know of someone that makes great waxes that throw good in 415. I gotta get the wicking down definitely! It can be such a booger! Thanks for offering your advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 with 6006 the next day you could burn them.You CAN burn any wax as soon as the candle has cooled, but if you want the best performance, wait for at least 48 hours for the wax crystals to harden up and the FO to develop on the wax. Soy waxes benefit from a longer cure. Like I said, I wait a week. A few FOs take longer than that. Testing too soon can give a false impression about the HT potential. Some folks discard any FO that doesn't throw within 48 hours. That's one way to separate the wheat from the chaff, but I prefer to be more patient and it's paid off well for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morethanrubies Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 love your analogy I agree, I am impatient but I'd rather wait for a great candle then to toss out somethign with potential in 48 hrs. What I meant by the 6006 being able to burn right away was that I didn't have to cure it but I wanted to get away from paraffin and produce a longer burning candle so I am sort of starting over. But I enjoy it and if nothing else, I support my own habit LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck_35550 Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Why not try 85% 6006 and 15% 415? You'll get a 50-50 soy/paraffin that should give you a great candle. IMHOSteve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morethanrubies Posted October 6, 2011 Author Share Posted October 6, 2011 Why not try 85% 6006 and 15% 415? You'll get a 50-50 soy/paraffin that should give you a great candle. IMHOSteveI know, I know... 6006 was always pretty easy for me but as I read more about paraffin I tried to get away. That and coupled with the rising cost of 6006 compared to straight soy is why I made the switch. Not sure what direction to go now ... sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjdaines Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 It has become obvious to me that there is not a wax that is all things for all people. My plan now is to have two container waxes, a soy and a paraffin. Those FOs that work well on soy I can make in soy and for those FOs that don't work well in soy but better in paraffin I can make in paraffin. Double the work but double the pleasure and flexibility when it is all worked out. So for now I have a 464 soy system and a 4630 paraffin system. All of my soy candles will be oriented towards the "green" market, all soy and no colour. The paraffin containers will have the colour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morethanrubies Posted October 6, 2011 Author Share Posted October 6, 2011 It has become obvious to me that there is not a wax that is all things for all people. My plan now is to have two container waxes, a soy and a paraffin. Those FOs that work well on soy I can make in soy and for those FOs that don't work well in soy but better in paraffin I can make in paraffin. Double the work but double the pleasure and flexibility when it is all worked out. So for now I have a 464 soy system and a 4630 paraffin system. All of my soy candles will be oriented towards the "green" market, all soy and no colour. The paraffin containers will have the colour.I suppose I could, I would just have to change my entire marketing (again for the ump-teenth time!)... I'm so annoyed with it all I'm about to just make only melts. That's what I live on in my house anyway. But alas, I can't --- candle lovers want to light something LOL... I am going to do some serious rethinking and see what will work for me. Thanks for your reply!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 You'll never get anything done jumping around like a grasshopper. Stick to your guns and LEARN how to make your wax work for you. Once you have followed all the way through with one wax, you will have a better idea of what you want and don't want and if you choose to test a different wax, things will go more smoothly for you because you'll know more of what you're doing at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjdaines Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 You'll never get anything done jumping around like a grasshopper. Stick to your guns and LEARN how to make your wax work for you. Once you have followed all the way through with one wax, you will have a better idea of what you want and don't want and if you choose to test a different wax, things will go more smoothly for you because you'll know more of what you're doing at that point.Disagree. Seems to me that no single wax can do everything we want. One can "stick to your guns" and still investigate other waxes for other purposes. The best thing I ever did was to stop beating my head against a wall and trying to make 464 something it wasn't. Trying other waxes while working with 464 actually taught me more then trying to figure out the "tips and tricks" to get soy to behave they way I wanted. I now have greater flexibility with a dual platform system and less frustration which translates into a more positive outlook and a willingness to continue to work on soy wax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Good for you - you are the exception. Most folks who jump around from wax to wax and have fistfuls of all kinds of wicks in all sizes become so confused they don't know which end is up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Good for you - you are the exception. Most folks who jump around lol, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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