Voids In Feather Palm Pillars?

[bart70]

Hi,

I am experimenting with Feather Palm and finding that I am getting some noticeable voids in the candles. I notice this more in my square (76mm wide x 86mm high) pillars than my round pillars although I do get it in them at times.

I have experimented with pour temp, and ambient temp and almost eliminated it but not fully. My biggest concern is that I plan to pour larger pillars (same size but double the height) and fear that the extra mass of contracting wax over the same surface area the top of the mold will create worse voids. The voids I am getting in the smaller candles are not too bad and would not create an issue with burning. Am just worried what might happen with larger pillars if I do not learn how to perfect it now.

Has anybody had any experience with voids in larger feather pillars? Would like to hear any advice or suggestions that people may have to avoid them.

Thanks,

Rob.

[Candybee]

You can punch relief holes in the pillar and do a repour to eliminate the holes or voids in the wax. The voids occur as the wax is cooling and contracting. I use a bamboo skewer or chop stick and punch holes in a circle around the wick. I make sure to punch down deep enough to catch any voids near the bottom of the pillar. Then I do a repour to fill the holes.

Everybody has their own technique and I am sure some will chime in with theirs.

[bart70]

Thanks Candybee,

I have experimented with repouring but need to be very careful to keep the repoured wax within the confines of the concave top as it will run down between the contracted candle sidewall and the mold.

Also when I have poked holes in the centre they quickly form back up again. Perhaps I am poking the holes too early and need to let the candle set further before making the holes?

Looking forward to more responses and opinions....I am learning things already!

Rob

[mparadise]

I usually repoke the holes every 15-20 mins until it is pretty cool to keep them open. It helps take care of the vast majority of them. I do this with my plam container candles as well.

[Judy, USMC]

There is a wealth of information if you use the search feature!

I just typed "feather" into the search and found that TopofMurrayHill has shared his experience with the feather palm you are using at this link: http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90341&highlight=feather

When I searched "void" I found another link that shows the void in a round pillar (at the top of page 2): http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89899

Top has done an excellent job of sharing his experiences with various palm waxes - there is a great amount of reading to do!

Hope that helps!

[cactusladycandles]

I mash or "wreck" the whole top of the candle as it sets up. That way, any air pockets are taken care of. Just putting holes in the wax won't do it. The wax hardens too fast to fill the holes up. Opening the whole top of the candle releases any air and as the candle cools, the area to open up gets smaller. On the final pour, I fill the void but not to the edge so the wax doesn't go between the candle and the mold. I don't have any problem with voids in the taller candles as long as I keep opening the wax as it cools.

[topofmurrayhill]

Counteracting voids while the candle is cooling is not very practical. The only suggested method I've seen involves coming back to the cooling pillars over the course of hours and completely breaking up the top crust of wax several times.

That may work, but it's a pain and I can't imagine anyone making a lot of palm pillars that way. I think you're much better off pouring the candles, covering them, and walking away. The voids form near the bottom, so it's easy to cut into the candle after it's cool and pour in some hot wax. It takes a fraction of the effort, the candles burn just as well, and you can pour them at the end of the day if you want and leave the workshop or go to bed.

Then there's the question of whether it's necessary to fill in the voids at all. You do have to do it with tortoise shell palm because the crystallinity of the wax is small and dense, with a huge void space that extends deep into the candle. With feather palm I found the voids to be small and few. Not worth bothering with, as they had no effect on the burn in any of my tests. Starburst palm tends to have more and larger voids, and even those didn't really do any harm. I also found that they could be decreased by using a small amount of stearic acid or feather palm wax as an additive.

A feather palm candle is just about the easiest pillar to make that I've ever found. You can make it harder, but you really don't have to.

Edited May 26, 2010 by topofmurrayhill

[bart70]

Thanks for the info everyone....some great tips and ideas there.

I had done a forum search and found lots of info on Starburst and Tortoise wax (incidently this is not available here in Australia that I can find) but was not sure if the same applied to Feather palm.

I had tried the 'break the top' theory but using thin skewers. Did not think to go further and wreck it up more then refill later.

I agree that trying to get the pillar to form up without poking at it would be the best option. I get minimal voids when ambient temp is above 21 degress centigrade (pour temp 95 centigrade) that would not need to be worried about. I live in a warmish climate coming into winter now wth daytime temps usually above 21 in winter (house drops to around 19 of a night in winter). I suspect the rest of the year the warm humid climate will allow a slow enough cool to prevent big voids (here's hoping!!).

Thanks again for the advice and tips.

Rob.

[snewbie]

I sort of split the difference and get perfect looking results now(still need to test wicks). 3"X6" pillars.

I pour 1-2 mm from the top into a hot mold at 200F, then cover with a cardboard box for 30-50min, then I poke 1 or 2 holes(there should already be one hole in the crust) in the crust and pour 1-2mm above the level of the wax already there. Youll have to figure out how soon to do the second pour since you dont want a nasty ring of uncrystalized wax on the bottom of your pillar. If you pour too soon, you may as well have not done it since youll end up with a hole at the bottom(obvious cavitation) in the end.

[bart70]

I sort of split the difference and get perfect looking results now(still need to test wicks). 3"X6" pillars.

I pour 1-2 mm from the top into a hot mold at 200F, then cover with a cardboard box for 30-50min, then I poke 1 or 2 holes(there should already be one hole in the crust) in the crust and pour 1-2mm above the level of the wax already there. Youll have to figure out how soon to do the second pour since you dont want a nasty ring of uncrystalized wax on the bottom of your pillar. If you pour too soon, you may as well have not done it since youll end up with a hole at the bottom(obvious cavitation) in the end.

Thanks Snewbie,

It is clear to me now that the rate of cooling is the main contributor to feather wax pillar voids. I am unable to 'box' my molds as the smallest wick pins I have are too large and make boxing impractical.

What ambient temps are you pouring in?

I have been experimenting with ambient temps - I have noticed a marked drop in voids when the ambient is 21 degrees C or above at the time of pouring and during the first couple of hours of setting. The voids at this this ambient are minor probably not worth worrying about.

This is probably just a large scale version of putting a box over the molds in that it is increasing the temps around the molds while cooling (albeit by tempering the pouring room).

Am still experimenting but time will tell - I have some larger molds arriving later next week.

Bart70

[snewbie]

My ambient temps are around 18C. I wear a sweater in the house. Saves elec.

I wish I could just follow Tops advice of a single pour, but I just cant stand the idea with pillars. Containers I wouldnt worry about, but with pillars I'm afraid the voids could contribute to a blow-out.

Maybe cut a good sized hole in the top of the box or cool in the oven? Cooling at higher ambient temp should work too.

[topofmurrayhill]

There's no need for any fuss, and there's nothing much you can do anyway. The voids are so few and so small that you're unlikely to find them. Some testing will confirm that those occasional air pockets have no effect on the burn. They don't cause blowouts, flareups or any problems at all. Unless you obsessively peer into burning feather palm pillars, they might escape your notice altogether.

The suggestion that palm wax candles benefit from being poured at 200 degrees is widely disseminated misinformation. Variations in pouring temperature make very little difference in how palm pillars set up. There's no need to exceed ~190 F unless you like to cook your fragrance oil, or want your mold to leak, or would rather wait around longer for the candles to start to set up. CandleScience has the best advice for palm pouring temps.

When slow cooling is desirable, covering the candles in some fashion does have a very big effect. It's not particularly critical for feather palm, but there are many ways to accomplish it if you want to. You don't have to use boxes. If you do use them, there's no problem with having holes in the top, or partially opening the flaps, or completely opening the top and placing something over it. It can actually be a good idea not to trap too much heat near the top of the mold. Tortoise shell pillars will certainly come out better with some air flow from a chimney effect.

[bart70]

Thanks Topofmurrayhill,

You are a wealth of information and it is appreciated. I have done some further testing and as you say, the voids are not substantial, and are usually in the very top of the candle as poured (the very bottom as burned).

I am working on a method for slowing down the cool rate that does not involve boxing as such. In my climate I am guessing that it will only be needed for 3 months of the year maximum anyway - maybe not worth the effort.

Interesting you mention the pouring temp for feather - this was my next round of experimentation as I am not that keen on heating the wax to 200 F if not necessary. Will also check out the Candlescience guides.

I am also about to embark on wick sizing - we are unable to get the CSN wicks here which seem so popular for feather pillars in other parts. Will be starting out trialling CDN's.

Wish me luck...

Rob.

[snewbie]

Thanks also,Top. I'll try pouring at 190F into warm molds with 1 pour for feather.

[snewbie]

Well, I tried it. 190F pour and walked away. The 3"X3"(10.5oz) was perfect. The 3"X6"(21oz) was irregular at the bottom, so I'll level it out on a hot plate after Ive wicked it. Both were very nearly as heavy as my double pours (.3-.5oz less), so I doubt the cavitation will matter. The pattern was within normal parameters. Thanks, you saved me some time, Top.

Edited May 30, 2010 by snewbie