Votive Bubbles - Ecosoya VB

[hyp0r]

I poured my first votives tonight, I used the Ecosoya VB wax, no dye, no FO. I did a single pour at about 145 degrees. Two of the eight that I poured had large air bubbles near the wick pin, which caused the votives to crack when I pulled the wick pins. What causes this? And how can I prevent it from happening? See attached pictures. Thanks!

[hyp0r]

Well I was doing a test burn on one that didn't crack when I pulled the wick pin, looks like it has a bubble too (see attached picture). They probably all have bubbles. I'll just have to redo the whole batch tomorrow night. I hope with everyones advice there won't be any air bubbles.

[SatinDucky]

I don't use soy, so I may be completely wrong here. Is it possible that you're pouring too cool? It looks like the wax is too close to the soilidifying point that when you pour the top cools and thickens too quick for it to sink when the rest cools. Unless it's a true one pour, it's going to shrink as it cools, one way or the other. If the top wont sink, it forms the air pocket underneath. I'm just following the logic of what I know and my be totally off base since it's soy

Maybe someone who uses this wax will pop in with better info.

[Dee]

Don't use soy either, but that's the kind of hole you can get with paraffin if you don't poke relief holes. Not usually a problem in votives though, so it could be your temp. You could try poking relief holes and then doing a second layer pour as Ducky says.

[hyp0r]

Well the page I bought it from says: "Pouring temperature should be around 140 deg." The page also says "A very low shrink wax which exhibits one pour behavior.", which of course I could ignore and poke releif holes anyways, but it's so nice to only have to do one pour. I'll see if anyone who uses the Ecosoya VB knows anything else. Thanks SatinDucky!

[SatinDucky]

As nice as recommendations are that come with waxes, wicks, molds, FOs etc.... it all boils down to experimenting and testing to find out what works for you

[siberia]

Hey there! I've used Ecosoya's VB quite a bit and really like it a lot. Ignore their pouring temp advice. Heat to 170-175, add FO and dye if you like and stir like crazy. As the wax cools, stir less often and more gently. Let the wax cool down to 110-115 degrees. Pour very slowly/evenly into your molds. This should solve your air pockets.

[SatinDucky]

Hey there! I've used Ecosoya's VB quite a bit and really like it a lot. Ignore their pouring temp advice. Heat to 170-175, add FO and dye if you like and stir like crazy. As the wax cools, stir less often and more gently. Let the wax cool down to 110-115 degrees. Pour very slowly/evenly into your molds. This should solve your air pockets.

Oh wow! What's the MP of that wax??

[Candle Man]

This is wat Peak's site says about this wax

A creamy white wax used to make votive candles and tarts. Ecosoya VB is made from pure 100% soybeans.

Melting Point 137 deg. F.

� Self-releasing from molds.

� A very low shrink wax which exhibits one pour behavior.

� Mix liquid, chip and dye blocks at around 165 deg. F.

� Pouring temperature should be around 140 deg.

� Ecosoya soy waxes require larger wicks than their paraffin counterparts do.

Also you should heat your molds & keep them grouped together (touching) and cool slowly. Place them in an ice chest, cardboard box covered in a blanket or place in an oven to cool slower. Cooling slower should help keep the air pockets from forming.

[SatinDucky]

Ok, what am I missing then?

How can you pour at 115 when it doen't melt until 137?

[topofmurrayhill]

Ok, what am I missing then?

How can you pour at 115 when it doen't melt until 137?

The congealing point is lower than the melting point. It's common with certain types of soy wax to stir them up and pour them just as they're congealing.

It's also a well-kept secret of candlemaking that the melting points of various substances we use actually aren't all that clear. You can't measure them in the same precise way you can with water. There are various methods used to come up with a useful number but it's not a melting point in the same sense you're used to with ice cubes.

For instance with paraffin, a very narrow cut wax has a fairly clear melting point. A broad cut wax has a less distinct melting point. A blend of 2 narrow cut waxes of different melting points results in a wax with 2 melting points. Microcrystalline wax basically doesn't have a melting point.

[SatinDucky]

Thanks Top, that's very interesting. I'll have to remember it

[hyp0r]

Thanks, siberia I'll try that right now. I also found an ice chest that I will cool them in.

UPDATE

Well, at 125 degrees it was starting to congeal so I thought I'd try pouring, but it was totally solidifying right in my pouring pot so I dumped it back in, I think I'll try at 135 or something.

[hyp0r]

Okay, see my beautiful pictures below. [image 1] I placed my votive molds as close together as I could (I didn't want them to touch). [image 2] I waited for the wax to cool to about 130 degrees. [image 3] I poured my wax. [image 4] I covered them in a syrofoam ice chest. And now, I wait... I'll post some pictures of how they turn out.

[hyp0r]

Everythings going good (at least that's what I think). By this time (4 hours after I poured) on the last batch they were already completly cool to the touch, right now they're still quite warm which means they are cooling a lot slower than before which hopefully will help out! One of the votives does have a tiny bubble on the top of it, I tried to tap all the bubbles out before I covered them not sure how this one snuck in (see picture) -- I know which one I'm gonna test with first. I'll test them out tomorrow night and let everyone know how it goes. Thanks for all of your help.

[hyp0r]

Well I took the votives out of the molds tonight, three of them kinda got stuck to the sides. Do you think this is because the mold was cold? Or maybe not clean enough? See picture. Thanks.

[siberia]

Hey there! It looks like you're getting close! I've the sticking problem on occasions when I did not wait for the votives to completely cool. Soy votives are for the patient ones grasshopper, you must wait until they are absolutely cool to avoid the risk of pieces sticking to the mold.

[hyp0r]

How long do I need to wait? I left the voitives in ice chest to cool for 14 hours, and then I took the cover off the ice chest for 8 hours since I figured they would have trouble cooling completly with the cover on. Personally I thought they were comepltly cool when I took the cover off, I just left them sit the additional time for good measure, I guess I need to let them sit even longer.

[siberia]

hmmm...now I am stumped. They should have been cooled by then...or maybe not with the ice chest being used. When I make the EcoVB votives, I do not insulate nor do I preheat the molds. Depending on the time of year (summer vs winter) I generally wait about six to eight hours to demold. At that time they are completely cool.

I'm assuming you read the usuage tips at: http://www.ngiwax.com/UsingEcoSoya/PBVBTips.php

They do mention that the molds should be at room temp, clean and conditioned. They also mention that the candles should be cooled at room temp. I agree with all of this.

They also mention that if you continue to have release problems that you can use a bit of spray silicone to relieve the sticking.

I wish I had the magic bullet to help you. Candle making is mucho fun 99.99 percent of the time. It's that .01 that makes one want to pull their hair out.

[hyp0r]

Well the votives that didn't stick turned out much better when they were cooled in the ice chest, there was no shrinkage at all, the ones cooled at room tempatre had some srinkage on top (and those nasty air bubbles). Other than the fact that they stuck to the mold, they turned out great. Maybe it's the conditioning part? Some of the molds I was using were brand new and hadn't been used before. I'm going to have that says that's the culprit in this case. I just poured some Spiced Cranberry votives, I'll let you know how they turn out. Thanks for all of your help!

[goosebay_1999]

I have some votive molds that always stick with my soy no matter what I do. I now have separated the ones that make the soy stick. I have tried everything under the sun and it's just a fact the some of my molds make the soy stick.

[hyp0r]

Let the wax cool down to 110-115 degrees.

I've never poured at this low of a temp becuase it always starts to congeal before it gets this low. Well I was reading about the soy wax and maybe you're right. It sounds like if I just keep stirring it constently it will be fine at lower temps, but if I stop stirring it'll start to congeal... I'll try this on my next batch.

[siberia]

Good deal...let me know how it goes. I'm going to be pouring a boatload of soy votives tomorrow. I'll be thinking of you and sending you good soy vibes!

[hyp0r]

Well I poured some soy containers tonight (with the Ecosoya CB-135), they turned out great. I think I need to wick up though. I tested with a HTP-104, HTP-105, and HTP-126 tonight. The 105 and 126 are about the same (104 is way too small), but I'm not getting a full melt pool. I'm gonna have the try the HTP-1212, I was going to test the 1212 tonight but I miscalulated on my wax and didn't have enough. :undecided

[hyp0r]

I just poured my votives at 115 degrees, the wax came out like a slushy and the tops already look bad, they've got like little air bubbles and chunks on top. A bunch of wax got stuck in my pouring pot, like a thick shell on the inside.

Someone else suggested to me that I just pour at 160 degrees and then do a second pour at 165 degrees. I'll try that next time. So much for the "one pour behavior".