Question About Oils for Soy

[Alajane]

I was at a show this weekend and stopped at a booth of absolutely beautiful soy candles (with very good cold throw). The chandler was very friendly and we got into a candle-making discussion. Of course, she was talking about her candles being all natural and that she didn't use fragrance oils, but used both essential oils and botanical oils.

I had never heard of botanical oils, so I asked her what they were. She said they were distilled from plants, which is what I thought essential oils were. So I asked what was the difference and she didn't know--said one was thicker than the other (I don't remember which was the thicker one).

Can anyone explain this to me? I've not had very good luck using pure soy and was very impressed with her candles, which were in containers about 4-1/2 inches wide and the sample she had there had burned out to the edge with a single wick! I'd love to know what kind of wick she used to get that result, but didn't have the balls to ask that! So I thought maybe the secret was the botanical oils.

Jane

[bells4shells]

I'm not an expert here, but I don't exactly think she knows what she's talking about completely. I think of botanical type items like rose water or hydrosols and the like. Botanical really is more a marketing term if you ask me. And besides that fact, I'm not so certain they would even have a smell. Maybe botanical oils in the wax? But not as a fragrance... just my opinion of course.

[AntoniasCreations]

Ok I dont know any thing about the oils but I think she is not telling the truth about them being pure soy.

I have never seen a PURE soy candle over 4 inches with a single wick burn clean. Some people on here were able to single wick a 4 diam jar but very few. There has to be some paraffin in those candles.

But please if I am wrong please correct me because I have spent months and months trying to single wick a 4" candle, and I just cant do it.

Antonia

[Alajane]

Well, Antonia, you could see I was surprised, too, because I've not had luck with it, either, but I use a J223/soy blend and I don't think J223 is any easier to wick than soy. Usually the only time I can get a full burn is about halfway down in the jar after the trapped heat builds up to melt the edges. But the containers she had were quite a bit wider at the top than the bottom, so I don't think that would help her any--at least it hasn't when I've tried that style of container!

I was very impressed with the cold throw and the entire appearance of these candles--sure would like to know what wick was used!!

[leisa2003]

Did it look like a "normal" wick, or could it have been a wood wick? I'm guessing not, cause you would have noticed that. Maybe a larger zinc wick?

[Alajane]

Nope, not wood! And didn't look particularly thick--the largest I have is HTP 1312 (which I haven't tried yet) and it didn't look any bigger than that.

I also have zinc 62, but I don't think those burn any hotter than HTP 1312. Anyway, I didn't see metal in it so I don't think it's zinc--but I got sidetracked in our conversation and didn't really examine it that closely.

DH asked why I didn't buy one and then I could tell what kind of wick it was! I said I can't even tell what kind of wick is in my own candles unless I keep notes!! He just assumed you could tell by looking--of course, he doesn't realize how many different wicks are out there.

[Carriegsxr6]

The best way to get the answers from your questions, is to first see if the woman was correct by saying you would get a full melt pool. You should buy one and test it. This way you will know for sure if its even possible or not. Also you will get to test her scent throw and be able to know from experience how it burns with botanicals and you could also figure out the wicking she uses.

[Alajane]

Yes, DH asked why I didn't buy one to check it out but it was at the end of the show and I didn't have an extra $20 in my pocket!!

So I just came here to see if anyone knew about the botanical oils.

[Carriegsxr6]

yes there might be people who have some experience with botanical oils, but It wont be possible for anyone to guess exactly at what wicking she used in that size jar with her scent amount and wax combo, so try to understand that you are only going to get a lot of guesses and opinions.

[Meridith]

I make my own soy blend and I recently did a single wick test to see if a jar with a 3-5/16" rim could be successfully single wicked. I still need to post these pictures but don't have a camera at the moment to get them posted. I will post as soon as I am able to do that but right now this is not on the top of my priority list.

I used no dye or fragrance in my tester jars. I tested HTP 1212, 1312 and an ECO 14 since these were the only large wicks I had at that time. Only 1 jar (the 1312) got a fairly good burn with a bit of hang-up but I don't think it would burn clean with the addition of dye of FO. The other 2 jars left a lot of hang-up.

There are some newer wicks out now that just may burn this jar clean. When I get a chance, I'd like to single wick test this jar using the CDN's and CSNs and see how it goes.

I would have loved to know which wicks she used as well.

[bells4shells]

I guess I don't know enough about soy to answer your original question, but since I saw someone else mention botanical oils in a candle... there is such a thing? What are these botanical oils? As in, what do they consist of? Sorry to hijack...

[AntoniasCreations]

I make my own soy blend and I recently did a single wick test to see if a jar with a 3-5/16" rim could be successfully single wicked. I still need to post these pictures but don't have a camera at the moment to get them posted. I will post as soon as I am able to do that but right now this is not on the top of my priority list.

I used no dye or fragrance in my tester jars. I tested HTP 1212, 1312 and an ECO 14 since these were the only large wicks I had at that time. Only 1 jar (the 1312) got a fairly good burn with a bit of hang-up but I don't think it would burn clean with the addition of dye of FO. The other 2 jars left a lot of hang-up.

There are some newer wicks out now that just may burn this jar clean. When I get a chance, I'd like to single wick test this jar using the CDN's and CSNs and see how it goes.

I would have loved to know which wicks she used as well.

Good luck I tried the CDN's 22 and the CD's 22 with 415, 6% FO and no dye and still didnt get a clean jar. Way to much hang up for me.

Let me know how the CSN's do for you.

Stella did a test on C-3 with fo and little color (I believe this is what she did) and used a CD 20 and she said she got good results. She is the reason I kept trying to make it work but then I decided I liked my hair on my head and just went to double wicking and then whiched jars because I am not a fan of doubled wicked jars.

Antonia

[Alajane]

I guess I don't know enough about soy to answer your original question, but since I saw someone else mention botanical oils in a candle... there is such a thing? What are these botanical oils? As in, what do they consist of? Sorry to hijack...

Jadewicks, you're not hijacking! That was the first part of my original question--I wanted to know the difference between essential and botanical oils. Glad we got back to that one (although I would love to have the wicking answer, too--but I know single wicking that size jar is next to impossible, so I didn't really expect an answer on that one).

Jane

[Meridith]

Good luck I tried the CDN's 22 and the CD's 22 with 415, 6% FO and no dye and still didnt get a clean jar. Way to much hang up for me.

Let me know how the CSN's do for you.

Stella did a test on C-3 with fo and little color (I believe this is what she did) and used a CD 20 and she said she got good results. She is the reason I kept trying to make it work but then I decided I liked my hair on my head and just went to double wicking and then whiched jars because I am not a fan of doubled wicked jars.

Antonia

While I am hopeful based on the single wick burns others report, it has always been my experience that a jar over 3" is best double wicked. I think the closer to 3" inches you are, the more likely you can single wick but you will still get a better, more consistent burn if you DW. I think once you get to 4", and you add FO and/or dye, it would be very difficult to get a good, consistent burn and throw.

[powderblueboutique]

ok, from what I understand, a botanical oil is an oil that comes from a plant. It can come from the root, stem, leaf, petal etc... most, if not all essential oils would be botanical oils. Now if she said "and other botanical oils", that would probably mean that some other oil was probably used with the wax and essential oils. Example: Soybean oil is considered a botanical oil. I am unaware of all the oils considered to be one and not considered, and I am not sure where to get a list of non-essential botanical oils. But, I am sure that it exists. ~ Kari

Correct me if I am wrong!

[Candybee]

I think the botanical oils she was referring to were part of the wax. I often come across descriptions of soy wax as being made with botanical oils. Its a marketing thing.

[bells4shells]

I think the botanical oils she was referring to were part of the wax. I often come across descriptions of soy wax as being made with botanical oils. Its a marketing thing.

That's what I was thinking...

[coffeebean]

yep Anton I agree with you. I tried the cdns in the apothicary jars with bad results. Now I did notice I had more scent throw with the LX than the cdn. I can use a LX 30 in that jar and it burns with very little hang up. But the HT is much better with the LX, and I have asked every person that walks thru the door.

[Alajane]

Thanks so much for both the responses about botanical oils and the LX30 wick suggestion!

Jane

[AntoniasCreations]

yep Anton I agree with you. I tried the cdns in the apothicary jars with bad results. Now I did notice I had more scent throw with the LX than the cdn. I can use a LX 30 in that jar and it burns with very little hang up. But the HT is much better with the LX, and I have asked every person that walks thru the door.

Thanks I think I might try the LX 30 and see what I get. I still have a few jars that I didnt give away so I will see what I get.

I have never tried the LX I started with the CDs and a few CDNs but nothing else really. I have been wanting to try the LX, and ECO.

Thanks again

Antonia

[Alajane]

I have most of the LX sizes up through 28, but didn't realize there was an LX30, so I'll have to get some of those with my next order!

[Circle]

She could have overwicked her jar so it is burning well, but much quicker. A lot of these people do overwick to show that it burns the whole candle, but the burn time is minimal. If you use RRd wicks, you could achieve a full melt pool and complete burn in this container with a good long burn time

[stacien]

This woman completely did not know what she was talking about. First of all anthing derived from a living plant or flower is considered botanical. They are either distilled or cold pressed to obtain these oils. Which can either be turned into tinctures for herbal remedies or Essential oils for aromatherapy.

She was just trying to BS you so you would think it was natural. If she knew anything about Essential oils she would know that they can be tricky to blend with wax. Any experienced Chandler would know that too. She took FO's and tried to pass them off as EO's or as she thinks BO's. Those particular people shouldn't dabble in an area they dont advocate in the first place. The worse part is to say such nonsense when you know there are bound to be other crafters around checking out your work.

I was at a show this weekend and stopped at a booth of absolutely beautiful soy candles (with very good cold throw). The chandler was very friendly and we got into a candle-making discussion. Of course, she was talking about her candles being all natural and that she didn't use fragrance oils, but used both essential oils and botanical oils.

I had never heard of botanical oils, so I asked her what they were. She said they were distilled from plants, which is what I thought essential oils were. So I asked what was the difference and she didn't know--said one was thicker than the other (I don't remember which was the thicker one).

Can anyone explain this to me? I've not had very good luck using pure soy and was very impressed with her candles, which were in containers about 4-1/2 inches wide and the sample she had there had burned out to the edge with a single wick! I'd love to know what kind of wick she used to get that result, but didn't have the balls to ask that! So I thought maybe the secret was the botanical oils.

Jane