Glue for wicks

[brudil18]

Hello all,

Just a quick question. When I am pouring my palm containers the wicks will sometime release during the pour. I am using a glue gun to glue them down. I've seen many post about different types of glues to use or other options. I was wondering if anyone uses anything hi temp that dries clear?

Thanks.

[Stella1952]

The stuff I use is high temp silicone gasket sealer by Permatex (AutoZone) but it is not clear - it's red. It has never let go, though. I really liked high-temp hot glue, but it couldn't always hold up to the heat and would frequently soften enough to either allow the wick to keep on sucking liquid wax from under the bottom or it would let go entirely, allowing the wick assembly to wander. I would prefer something clear also, but I traded that off for the more heat resistant stuff. HTH

[OverSoyed]

How much is the sealer Stella? And how many candles do you typically get out of a bottle/tubey?

[Stella1952]

Seems like it was around 6 bucks or so... *

How many.....Ummmmm.... not totally sure, but I've gone through a gross of containers since I bought it... and a couple dozen votives... and a couple dozen metro jars... so about 200? Still have some left...

We use a dollop about the size of a pencil eraser on each tab. It has gone a lot farther than I thought it would. At first, I tried putting it on a scrap piece of paper and dabbing the wicktab into it, but we quickly decided that was more trouble than it was worth after the dog's tail swept it off the coffee table...*faint*

Whoever thought up using the Bic pen barrel for wicking has my undying admiration! It is perfect to squish the tab snugly onto the jar bottom.

* I just checked online for pricing and it's a LOT cheaper here if one is gonna use a LOT of it:

http://www.amazon.com/Permatex-High-Temp-Silicone-Gasket-Maker/dp/B0006SNLPC

[OverSoyed]

We've been using regular hot glue to glue the wicktabs down to the jars, but occasionally, when tugging them up before the pour, 1 or 2 pop, and we have to re-glue them.

I was thinking about glue dots for, but not sure how good they work.

Another thing that has me puzzled, even with the container demo on the old board... they suggest you heat your jars in the oven... but wouldn't that melt the glue?

I'd try the silicone... but wonder if it would somehow leak into the poured wax causing some fumes?

[Stella1952]

We've been using regular hot glue to glue the wicktabs down to the jars, but occasionally, when tugging them up before the pour, 1 or 2 pop, and we have to re-glue them.

That's the whole problem and even if the glue holds during pouring, it can and will release when the candle becomes liquid, allowing the wick to move to the side of the container by convection or gravity.

Here's a hot glue failure looking straight down into a Metro jar:

This was a Glass Glow tester - note the soot on the right side of the container (the black on the left is notes on the outside of the glass) and in the wax because of the movement of the wick tab. Because the seal was broken, the wick tab failed to self-extinguish and continued sucking liquid wax through the bottom until none remained. It is difficult to tell from the straight-down perspective, but there is a good layer of glue remaining on the bottom of the wick tab. Even ONE like this could cause a lawsuit for me! Even though this did not happen often, it happened way too often, especially when powerburning (the way customers often burn candles).

I was thinking about glue dots for, but not sure how good they work.

Totally unsuitable.

Another thing that has me puzzled, even with the container demo on the old board... they suggest you heat your jars in the oven... but wouldn't that melt the glue?

No. This stuff is rated for more than 600°F otherwise you couldn't use it as a gasket material in a car engine.

I'd try the silicone... but wonder if it would somehow leak into the poured wax causing some fumes?

The adhesive is hard in 1 hour and completely cures (ceases to release acetic acid) in 24 hours. It does not soften when exposed to heat like hot glue, glue dots or wick stickums because it does not harden by evaporation - it hardens by a chemical change when exposed to air. If you are unfamiliar, this is a high-temp version of the same stuff used to seal aquaria, windows, etc. Good stuff!

PS For testers, use hot glue 'cause this stuff isn't easy to remove! I use a single-edge razor blade.

[OverSoyed]

Very insightful!

I have noticed the gooey stuff on a few retail candles I've gotten in the past. I'm guessing it is silicone as well.

Off to the auto supply I go... I need tranny fluid anyway!

Score one for Stella!

[Dolphin146]

Very insightful!

I have noticed the gooey stuff on a few retail candles I've gotten in the past. I'm guessing it is silicone as well.

Off to the auto supply I go... I need tranny fluid anyway!

Score one for Stella!

Stella does it work for tealights also. The ones in the plastic cups. Regina:D

[Sharon in KY]

I use clear GE Silicone bought almost anywhere, about $4.00 a tube. You have to use a caulking gun. Same as Stella's it has a high heat tolerance, 400*. One tube does hundreds of wicks, it will not come loose.

For t-lites I first make sure to use the 15 mm wick tab so it fits in the little grove. I have been using the little dots of glue that are used in scrap booking. Paper thin and cheap, they add no bulk. I touch the tab to the dot then push in holder. Since it fits in the indent it doesn't need much to keep it down. I also use soy wax and don't pour as hot so that might make a difference on what works for me. HTH

[LPENDA]

We use special "High Temp" glue w/ a High Temp glue gun and have not had a problem since. Sets up VERY fast.

Tried glue dots initially, but when began pouring very hot (as we now do w/ 464), they didn't hold.

Just our experience for what it's worth....

[tootie04]

I have been using the wick stickers for my testers....I need to try the gasket sealer for after testing.

Thanks Stella for the info!

tootie

[Chantelle]

Stella, can you get the stuff out of the bottom for recycling? I tend to re-use my jars and make my daughter and daughterenlaw return empty jars for new ones. I usualy scape the wick tab out and rinse then run through the dishwasher.

Have you removed the adhesive for this purpose? I refuse the glue gun its a mess and have been into the dots they seem to work pretty good.

Now aboutthe bic pen, i use a straw, do the wicks fit right through the pen or do you snip the tip after remving the ink cartridge?

Thanks again Stella for your wonderfull advise!

Chantelle

Aroma du jour'

[Stella1952]

Stella does it work for tealights also. The ones in the plastic cups.

Regina, I am sure that it would, but I don't pour many tealights. They are so small, I dunno if the liquid wax and flame would have time to get hot enough to loosen the high-temp hot glue - it would certainly work but might be overkill. Any tealight makers out there wanna weigh in on this?

Stella, can you get the stuff out of the bottom for recycling?

Yes, but be careful! I use a single-edge razor blade to scrape the RTV off the glass of the 8 oz widemouth jars - very quick and easy...BUT, I have some little bitty votive cups that are too small for that, so I simply have to scrape them. Once I work my way under a corner, I can usually peel it up or grab the wick tab with some needle nose pliers and use brute force. Be REAL careful not to put too much pressure on the lip of the container - my canning jars and votives, no problemo. But the Metro jars are another matter! They won't put up with ANY pressure on their lips. Don't place your hand inside deep containers - it's trouble waiting to happen!

When I make testers or candles for myself, I often don't use the RTV because even if the high-temp hot glue does let go, I am watching... I use the RTV gasket maker mainly for candles that I sell or give away to persons unknown who may or may not burn candles safely.

BTW the hot glue... I bought a glue pot thingy from Peak's and it is DA BOMB! I put the glue sticks into it and then touch the wicktab to the hot glue. If it tries to string, it's easy to wrap the string around the stick holder accessory. http://www.peakcandle.com/products/Glue-Pot__A1031.aspx

OH WOW!!! Peak's RULES again... when I grabbed the link above to show you the glue pot, I scrolled down a tad and they have a step-by-step of how to use ye olde Bic pen barrel to wick containers!! They even show ya how to take apart the pen!!

Remember: it isn't the pouring temp you have to worry about here - it's the temps achieved when burning the candle. Temps at the bottom of a container can go well over 400°F especially if a customer is not using good safety procedures. It isn't about what will simply hold the wick tab while pouring... it's about covering your fanny from liability. HTH, Y'all.

[OverSoyed]

Stella... you are too great for words... I just wanna dip you in a glue pot and stick you on my keychain! LMAO!

[heidijo]

I use a hot temp glue gun with hot temp glue sticks from Dollar Store. Prefer them over silicone as easier to remove yet when the candle is done. They don't shift on me while burning either.

[chiptooth]

I too use the Ge sillicone but I found mine in a tube with a twist off lid at Trader Horn and so far, I haven't had any floating wicks and to get the wick tab to release for jar recycling I use a pair of needle nose pliers and pull it right out.

[nobcanldle]

I have tried hot glue, wick sticks and silicone. I now use e6000 industrial adhesive. I have used this stuff for years in my jewelry making and just thought to use it to stick my wicks down. It is perfect! It is clear and rubbery. It doesn't lift when burning, but can be popped off after the candle is done ( I reuse my containers and urge my customers to do the same). It does smell a bit, but has not affected my scents at all. Hope this helps!!

[Stella1952]

I've used E6000 in the past and it's a great adhesive! My only concern is whether it will withstand the high temps (400°F+) that can be achieved at the bottom of a container...

I found this data sheet but didn't find the exact info I was looking for although the "adhesive shear strength at different temperatures" was not particularly encouraging, as the strength drops off considerably as the temperature goes up... This is the same point where other good adhesives like high-temp hot glue can fail...

http://www.tapplastics.com/uploads/products/pdf/E-6000%20Product%20Data.pdf

Next time I have a glass project that I need to buy some E-6000 for, I will torture test it to see how it performs.

Thanks for the tip!

[Candybee]

I use Stanley DuelMelt glue sticks in my glue gun. I have never had one wick come unglued in parafin, soy, or palm wax. It sticks so well that if I want to reuse a jar and want to clean it out I have to pry off the wick tab with a metal object.

Maybe you are just using the wrong glue sticks in your heat gun.

[Stella1952]

Maybe you are just using the wrong glue sticks in your heat gun.

That's entirely possible. Although the glue sticks I have used are labeled as "high-temp," no temperature range is given and they are el cheapo glue sticks. Perhaps the ones you are using are rated for 400°F+ - the ones I have used are not reliable under powerburning situations, which is the worst I could expect a customer to do to a candle. Even though that is not how I recommend a candle to be burned, that is the reality of how many people WILL burn a candle, so that's what I test for and too many have failed that test, as evidenced by the photo I shared above. That's precisely why I switched to a more reliable, truly high-temperature adhesive.

I didn't find any useful information about the glue sticks you are using from the bostitch website (Stanley Bostitch), but I did find this site, Glu-stix which discusses many types of hot glue (who KNEW there was so much difference from one to the other:shocked2:...). Apparently, according to the info in that link, low cost "craft" high-temp hot glue is crap...

Be aware that many "frosty white" bargain style, ultra low cost glue sticks on the market are nothing more than melted polyethylene plastic which contains no actual adhesive. Although very inexpensive, this type of glue is such a low performance product, it's hardly worth buying. We do not sell this type of glue stick!

Even the product recommended there has a softening point of 248°F and recommended application temp of 380°F, which is just under the temps one can expect in the liquid bottom of a container candle, but it sounds like the best high temp hot glue product I have seen thus far...

http://www.glu-stix.com/shop/page/product_detail/Product/67136cccf00d511637cd2e7ece2b38b7.html

Perhaps this glue is whatever Stanley Bostitch is purchasng and private branding for use with their glue guns...

I'm glad you brought this up... I think I will order some of the Ultra-Tac glue that the Glu-Stix folks recommend and torture test it...

(On second thought, after going back and seeing the cost of these... I think I'll keep using the RTV gasket maker)

[Candybee]

Maybe thats a part of it. I never bought my glue sticks at a craft store. I buy the Stanley DuelMelts at the hardware store. I asked a couple of 'manly' type guys what they use in their glue guns and those were what they picked for me. That is the extent of my scientific research.

Anyhoo-- they work! So I am sticking to them. LOL