Soap tester rant

[Vio]

The funny thing is no Creative. Not at all and I have extremely sensitive skin. I mean super reactive. If I dared to use fragrance or sodium cocoate or tallowate on my face especially, I'd have serious problems. My hands get really dry up here in NE. Since I moved up here I've had huge problems with hand soaps drying my skin. My hands are super soft. Not dry at all. The oo soap I used on my face is gentle and not stinging and I don't even need moisture which I needed when I was using my liquid gentle cleanser. One good thing, when they're both done curing, they're going to be dream soaps! If they're this gentle now, it's only going to get better. I'm sold on the gentleness of home made soaps. I used to use nutrogena glycerin and that was more drying than these are, and also caused my skin to react where this oo one isn't. No drying. I really am shocked that from what I'm hearing it should be because it's really not. Just the opposite is happening. My facial skin is so soft it's amazing me. I mean soft. Really soft. Soft soft soft.

I won't chance it again though. I could just be lucky with this with these two batches I did. Fo gentle and hands doing well, lard making my hand skin softer. Face soap no fo nor color and the ingrediants just gentle. I've cut the bars after the initial bars I made and it's the same inside and out. Next time I might not be so lucky so I won't chance it. Thank you for the advice!

Definately will do these recipes again though. I'm sold on them. LOL

And from what I see of the castile soaps being said, the slime and less bubbles, well mine bubbles like a mofo. Creamy and bubbly. I mean I can rub it once over wet hands and lots of bubbles with only oo, castor and jojoba. I used organic jojoba, pure. Not soaping grade jojoba like from a supply place.

[Louise]

Vio, HP is safe to use as soon as it's out of the mold. However, like we talked about last night, there is still water in it that will need to evaporate or they will melt away too.

If you decide to go the HP route, may I recommend the book Handcrafted Soap by Delores Boone. It's filled with lots of good info plus some terrific recipes. It shows different methods of HP'ing and has lots of info on different oils and their properties. But remember, no one book has all the info nor does it have the last definitive say. Soap making, like anything else, keeps evolving. Keep at it, Vio, I know you are going to be great at it! It just takes time. And yep, you're brain is going to feel overloaded and shredded at some points, but you will keep moving forward.

Like Sliver, I've seen some conflicting advice and misinformation being passed around. Remember, people give advice as to what works for them, and that's all well and good. Your part will be to sift through all the advice, research it, ask more questions and then decide which advice you will keep. It doesn't mean that the people whose advice you don't take are wrong, it just means that you've chosen what you feel is right for you.

[CareBear]

As a person who will probably never make soap, please allow me to give you some sound advice.

...

2. Find one or two people on this forum who make the same kind of soap you wish to make. Make sure these people have been making soap long enough to have a clue. Being a soaper for a year or so DOES NOT CONSTITUTE AN EXPERT. These people have NO business giving advice.

See if you can contradict yourself a bit more please.

[Scented]

Here I sit thinking it's fun to take a bar, get about 3-6 slivers off it and just see how the feel of it changes from week to week throughout the cure. When I first started I sent stuff all over. Now a couple of people get stuff that I may alter a little so I can get their reaction from it. I'm in swaps to get reactions to stuff and to work to improve from suggestions from people here.

If people who are testing for me react well, I'll branch out to the boss' wife so to speak, but not right away.

[Vio]

Louise thank you I will take your advice to heart and I will look into the book thank you!

Scented noted thank you. I'm not worried about the boss thing really. No she's not going to get all funky on me and pass the word that my stuff is bad. That wouldn't get her anything and it's the last thing she seems to want! For now, she and husband will just have to trust me when I say no. I talked to him last night and told him all about how risky it is and he understands now. I had to show him what others thought, and why I don't want to do anything wrong for him to really understand it.

[Fire and Ice]

See if you can contradict yourself a bit more please.

LOL! I was thinking the same thing!:embarasse

Fire

[Fire and Ice]

Vio

First of all, if you read Crafty's goat milk recipe, you will find that it is VERY simple and easy to follow. When you are ready to do a goats milk bar, this is the one I would try. I tried it as my third soap and didn't have any of the usual problems of dayglow orange color or ammonia smell. I did it but followed my own insticts as well as the direction. I explain my experience in the thread about this recipe in this forum the other night. Read it.

Secondly, sign up at the SOAP DISH and read there for a few weeks or months. I started in the very back of the soap forum and read foward! It's an amazing site with soapers who have been at it for 15+ years. There are people from around the world not just the USA. Pay attention to a woman named Banicoot from Australia! She make 1500 bar a day in her soap barn Is KNOWS tons.

Just read, read and read some more! Several regulars here are over there as well. I'm over there too because I learn so much! Everything you can imagine asking is over there! I'll ask questions over here because it's smaller and I trust this crowd but I have HUGE respect for many over on the Dish as well.

Fire:cool2:

[Vio]

Thank you Fire! I will take your advice as well and I will do Crafty's GM when I get up the nerve. I'm just scared. LOL I know yours came out great, but I'm afraid to do it. LOL I have to find out where I get the GM around here. Trying to keep expenses down and need to find it locally. I'll look it up, I just haven't done so yet. I did take Crafty's recipe down in a bookmark though, and your experience with it as well to note the fo you used. I'm gonna give it a whirl one day soon. I'm just taking it slow. Those who do know me somewhat know how much of a non rush I really am in with this stuff. I haven't done enough reading at all on the milk stuff. Did tons of OO reading now. So much last night I actually had to eat some with some bread it got me so hungry!

I read at the Dish a lot. I just like to keep it simple and not confuse myself with too many opinions from personal responses. As I go into it further, I will post though I'm sure. For now, I have to just do the reading. I've got a few books coming too. My head hurts from candles, now I had to go and do this!!!

[Tereasa]

The Dish...

Well, Vio, don't take this as confrontational. You have, at times, chastised people for being tough on newbies. Whatever on that.

The Dish eats newbies and smiles while doing so. I wouldn't go over there and even mention what you mentioned here.

I get that you are reading conflicting things. That was Sliver's advice. Find someone you trust, who has been making soap for a long time. Nothing competes with experience in this arena. Nothing. If you choose one soap maker over another, that's your choice. But find someone YOU trust. Then listen to them. Ask them to be a mentor. I bet any of them would be willing to help you if you show you're willing to help yourself.

Sliver did not contradict herself. I feel her advice was sound in that it addressed the issue that Vio said she was having: conflicting research. Finding one or two mentors will alleviate most of that.

[Vio]

I don't need to participate to learn which is the good part. I have people here who are what I consider to be my mentors with things. I have been utilizing that but not in public because it's just not anything I need to do. I didn't ask the right questions and also used research and now, I see I need to...well I don't know exactly, but I'm purchasing a few books on soap stuff. That should help too.

Tereasa in all honesty though, I don't understand the comment on tough on newbies though. I said in a thread that as a new person coming here and seeing the confrontations that happen, it's scary to post at first with any questions. That wasn't with n00bs though. That was seeing simply posts from one member to another and as a n00b, it's scary. I don't see anyone as tough on n00bs though. I think everyone here, is helpful in the right circumstances. I have yet to see someone not help someone, if they're doing their homework. If you don't think that's accurate, than maybe you didn't see things that way because you're here longer. I can tell you personally, when I first started reading the board, without an account, the way people behave here is intimidating at times. I've also learned to judge people for who they are as individuals. I don't know anything about cliques or anything of that sort. I do hear things said of other places and this is why I don't feel comfortable at this point, confusing myself by being active on more than one of this type of board at this point. I get what I need from here when I do ask questions always, and from now on when I see advice on anything given to others both here or elsewhere, printed in article or book, I am going to ask for input. I've learned. Lesson learned.

[ChrisR]

Vio.....on the 'to gel or not to gel', it all boils down to your preference. There is absolutely nothing wrong with either method and IMHO doesn't alter the soap qualities itself, but maybe minor differences in appearance and possible color. All my soaps are 100% goat's milk and I personally don't like it to gel because it actually darkens the bars. Most milk soaps are not a true white color, they are more off white/ivory color and if gelled, mine turn a more tanish color.

[Vio]

Thank you ChrisR for going into that a bit.

It's really very confusing because from what I'm reading, that gel is the sap process. I see reasons why you don't want certain ingredients to overheat so I kind of understand the GM thing, but with basic soaps, it doesn't make sense to me being so new to soap, even with all the reading I've done. Some don't want it, others can't live without it. It's like yes/no on the answer depending on where you look. Confusing. But thank you for the input! When I get to the point of GM, I know gel can be bad. I really haven't looked into it at all yet, to see why people think conflicting on this one. I do see so much more for non gel than gel though when it comes to GM. Some people don't want gel with just basic soap. I don't get it. LOL I'm trying to, and the only way it seems to get it, is to keep reading and ask. So I guess each batch I make one day, I will ask as I do, if gel is good or not and try and learn from the input.

[kidsngarden]

I did not have a "bad batch" of soap until I was six months in. My first batch was very basic and made at the end of october and given to EVERYONE at Christmas for gifts. - it was even 100% Goat Milk. (I have only made one or two non GM batches in the years I have been soaping) I had no intention of ever selling and then in January orders started to come. Many of those folks are still ordering and sending more and more customers my way.

I'm not bragging, I guess I got lucky. I was paranoid and studied for about 6 months, lurking on the boards, reading on websites before I ever made batch. when I did it I ignored everyone's advice and made GM from the start and lucky for me all my reading paid off and it worked.

Now I'm not saying not to test your stuff before you give it to testers, and we should definetely give soap a good cure. but let's get real here. how many of us haven't been so excited about our new creations we gave them to friends and family - soaps from our very first batch? without insurance (gasp!)? How many of us started selling right away?

I'm going to step right up and say I did and no one died, no one broke out in a rash, nada. Of course we want to tell newbies to test (and if you think soap is a hard one to test, wait until lotion - no there's something I didn't sell a speck of till it was challenge tested!) But let's not all get our panties in a wad because someone new dared to give out soap from her very first batch. (although the cure - Vio, you got to remember to cure! )

But Vio, you have to remember too that there is ALWAYS going to be someone who doesn't like your stuff no matter what. And you have to learn to figure out whether there is something wrong (in this case it likely just wasn't cured long enough and the tester wasn't educated in how to keep handcrafted soap) or if it's just a preference thing. And then there are those who just like to have something to whine about. Can't take it personally, gotta move on.

[Vio]

Thank you kidsngarden for the kind and very real words and sentiments you've shared.

I knew darn well someone was going to say something about whatever. I have nothing to hide. This is why, I actually put my date of first products ever made in my sig. I have nothing to hide. The cure thing, live and learn. I have patience with most stuff with all of this stuff, but I didn't know, honestly. And for those that say well read, well I can point to 100's of things that say 48 hours is safe. I trust opinions here in this thread and will err on the side of caution like I said though. The last thing I want to do is do something wrong, but I am human and therefor, prone to mistakes. It's something we all do at one time or another. Maybe others don't make mistakes, and I wish I could be so perfect. I'm not.

I spoke to his boss this afternoon and she actually raved to me about the soap and she does use a soap saver but she keeps her soap right in the spray so that probably is why her soap melted and I told her that's got to be why it happened. I also told her to stop using it for now and remove it and dry what's left and wait till it "hardens" (cures) more. Also reminded her that these were my first which she knows and she reminded me she knows too. Very nice woman. I mean extremely nice and she's looking forward to the day my stuff is fit for sale. She's very cool and she even told me she wished she had the nerve to do the stuff I'm doing but she's busy with her work and has no time. OMG though the way she ranted and raved about the soap!!! LOL My husband did tell me that she loved them, but that "but" just got to me because it seemed weird like I said, because mine aren't doing it.

I'm here to learn, and I've learned. I thank everyone involved for allowing me to share so I make less mistakes. I'm sure I'd be making a lot more, if it wasn't for real people responses like these. Thank you!

[thesoapbox]

I don't think anyone was getting "their panties in a wad" over her giving a bar out so soon. It was just pointed out that it was most likely the reason why the tester didn't have too much good to say about it.

Like I said earlier, you live and you learn which is a good thing in life .

If you love your soap now Vio, you will be in soap heaven after the cure!

ANgi

[Vio]

Yeah now I really can't wait for it to be really done. If it's this good now, it's going to be really super duper good. LOL Can't wait!

She actually did have a lot of good to say about it. It just wasn't what I mostly heard even when I talked to her today. All I heard was that "but".

[thesoapbox]

That "but" causes you to toon out everything else lol! My husband has a habit of saying, "I really liked the dinner you cooked, but..." and once that "but" gets thrown in there all bets are off lol! That is when I start rolling my neck saying, if you can do so much better then you cook from now on !

Angi

[eugenia]

Vio did a 40% lye solution on the castile. That was my recommendation. It can get pretty hard quickly. She was confused in that the curing process is two part, losing water (getting harder) and lye dissipation. I would never have suggested that it was ready any time soon. We have been in touch and all is clear.

e

[Vio]

No and I should have asked. LMAO Boy should I have asked! I guess there's just no relying on practically eating the stuff your tongue is on it so much and ph testing because it's still a no no.

One way or another, it's got to cure longer so from now on, there's no rushing to use my own soap. I'd be just as guilty only using it for myself, which I've stopped today. Darn skin isn't gonna like this, but I'll feel better about it when it's fully cured. Like I said, I really just wanted to make some soap. Had no idea, I was actually going to want to continue it. Another crafting addiction thanks!!!

And LOL thesoapbox I hear you!!! OMG do I hear you on that one!!! I had a little tiff with him just tonight about when the heck I'm going to have some candles to let people buy. I was like wtf are you kidding me????? I went off. I mean off. It wasn't pretty I have to admit. Especially since I know, without a doubt, that my candles are no where near ready for me to burn leaving the room! I have new wicks to test and have some hope to have them behaving better soon but come on. Like I'm some kind of magician with this stuff or something. And I never lead him to believe anything like this was a get rich quick thing or anything. I just told him I had hope that one day I could do this as a kind of job of some sort. I can't even count how many times I've told him it takes a lot of time. Apparently he thinks I've had enough time or something. Some men!!!