Soy Wax Nightmare Need Advice Please!!

[Ruby]

Hello, I used the Joy wax from NG for years with great results. The last 3 cases I bought, I have had nothing but problems with. NG has a new diclaimer on the site about wax not being returnable..blah blah, and also do a search. A lot of people have had trouble with it recently. HTH Ruby

[bugtussle]

E'Dee, I think the one thing that is important out of all of this is that if you are going to sell candles in volume, you had better already have the wax and have tested the batch #s beforehand. I got caught "with my pants down" on the bad 6006. I think it can happen with any wax. Until this summer I thought WAX (especially IGI) could be dependable. It is not! Please test a batch (and then have enough of that same batch) before you commit to an order. It will save you lots of headaches. Carole

[kandlekrazy]

Shame on that supplier, what happened to customer service? There are so many suppliers out there that have great customer service. It's a shame that some have to be *&%($)). This hasn't happened to me yet with C3, but I just ordered another case, should be here on Wednesday and I'll let you know if the new stuff is the same or different. I've started writing down the lot # from the box and putting it into my plastic container each time I open a new box, just in case of problems.

[Carrie]

Before you jump on the supplier, you need to know both sides of the story and we don't. Fillmore is a well respected supplier. Countrycandlemaker is a chandler who posted at the biginning of July that she is pretty new to making candles. If I had a newbie candlemaker call me to tell me that the new order of wax was bad I'd definately question the validity of the complaint.

Just my two cents.

[kandlekrazy]

Regardless of whether she is new or has been making candles for 100 years, I don't think a supplier should just shove you off. JMO. Fillmore may be great and maybe she just got a bad representative on the phone, but they should help her to resolve the problem. I won't deal with companies that treat you like that even if everyone on this board says they are good.

[bugtussle]

I don't think a supplier should just ignore you either. Thank God that I knew Lone Star & they knew me when I had the 6006 catastrophe (I always took them candles.) When I had a problem, they listened and believed me. I don't want a supplier that doesn't care. But I still will never make a large committment unless I have tested the current batch #. That is my responsibility. Carole

[Carrie]

Regardless of whether she is new or has been making candles for 100 years, I don't think a supplier should just shove you off. JMO. Fillmore may be great and maybe she just got a bad representative on the phone, but they should help her to resolve the problem. I won't deal with companies that treat you like that even if everyone on this board says they are good.

Again, no one knows the other side of the story. I wouldn't write off a supplier because one person has a problem. We've seen time and again a person post about how terrible a supplier is and then the supplier comes on and tells the other side of the story and it's completely different.

[topofmurrayhill]

Carole, the difference here is that you are credible and this person is not. Suppliers can tell the difference between an experienced person with a problem and a clueless person freaking out.

She took an order for 300 fundraiser candles with just a few months experience. She thinks the wax was ruined in the UPS truck, the candles have "mold" (frosting) and "condensation" (wet spots), and she wants a free case of wax to test her theories. Nah, I don't think so.

I can just imagine all the sorts of people these suppliers have to deal with. Sometimes you just need to get someone off the phone.

[Countrycandlemaker]

Hi Thanks to all of you that are have been so kind with great advice. I would by far call me a clueless person. I have poured right at 1000 candles with no problem what so ever. HMMM just a strange Coincidence that this just suddenly happened to me with this order of 300. That is why I turned to candletech for honest advice and helpful advice. I have ran across many nice and helpful people to them I am so grateful.

I am the kind of person that always makes my customers happy. I listen to their problems and never make them feel stupid in anyway. Being professional and standing by your word says alot about you and your company. Yes there are always two sides to every story. But I atleast I hear them out and make mends with the problem to the absoulute best of my ability. Thanks for the brash comment.

Yours truly,

un-credible candlemaker:D

[Carrie]

Thanks for the brash comment.

You're welcome. Oh, wait, were you talking to me or Top?

BTW, what are mends?

[Countrycandlemaker]

Hey Carrie,

No I was talking to top. I appreciate you being so helpful. It just really shocked me to see someone be so outright mean. Make mends mean try to fix.

I do appreciate everyone and I am always a kind person. I just was so shocked when I read the comments by top. Normally I would never make a comment like that at all. I always try to see the good in people

and help them thru their problems. The world is full of all kinds. Take Care & God Bless!

Edee

[CareBear]

Top wasn't trying to insult you - he was just pointing out that there ARE two sides to every story so we shouldn't just jump on the "Oh MY God" bandwagon quite yet. You obviously had real issues, but the vendor has a long standing history with us so we shouldn't just throw that history away when considering what we read. We know less about you than we do about them. You say you've poured a zillion candles but that doesn't tell us much about your expertise, just about the volume of your candlemaking. So we should stop and think is all...

Which is ALWAYS reasonable advice.

(and, it's valid for the vendor to do the same - make a considered and educated decision based on all the available information including the history of the product, themselves, and you.)

Oh, and I think E' meant "make amends" not "mends"

[Countrycandlemaker]

I understand we shouldn't jump to conclusions I just was looking for help and received brick walls. I am sure you would of felt frustrated too. I am a true southerner so "mends" is just the way I say certain expressions. Good luck to each of you.:DBy the way didn't say a zillion candles--right at 1000 to be exact. Your right that doesn't tell you alot about my expertise. But I don't understand how my method could of been varied in such a way to create those results. But it doesn't matter know any how. Water under the bridge. You live and you learn. Take Care & God Bless Care Bear!

[Stella1952]

I just was looking for help and received brick walls.

Au contraire! Besides the people who responded to this thread, you got excellent support here...

http://www.candletech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59416

and here...

http://www.candletech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59254

on the issues you raised.

Personally, I believe that you got the cart before the horse with taking such a large order, then pouring huge batches without testing the new wax. While I have sympathy for your plight and I applaud your zeal and dedication to your undertaking, there's a reason that taking large orders before having solid experience under your belt is unwise and generally against the advice of seasoned candlemakers. Your order deadline and having problems (not allowing enough time to work out any potential difficulties) put you in the unenviable position of being in waaaay over your head!

E'dee, you didn't even realize that you were seeing frosting, "wet spots," and syneresis ("sweating") in your candles (3 of the top 4 problems of vegetable wax container candles) and there is just LOADS of information and discussion and solutions for all three problems right here in the threads! When the summer began several months ago, people were wringing their hands about the problems they were having as a result of the higher temperatures, humidity and air conditioning in their work and storage areas. I followed those threads with great interest because the difficulties discussed could easily apply to me at some point!

I live in the deep gulf south also and contend with ludicrously high temps for at least 6 months out of the year. From the technical data sheet for NatureWax C3 (available for anyone to download):

HANDLING REQUIREMENTS: Protect from extreme heat, over 85°F.

This can sometimes be tricky for shippers and distributors. Frankly, I do not think that exposure to high temps for the duration of shipping would have had any lasting impact on the wax, especially if it was used immediately upon arrival as yours was. I do think that prolonged storage above this temp would shorten the shelf life of the product.

NatureWax C3 has been one of the more stable vegetable wax products in the past few years. While bad batches do happen, it's more common for the problem(s) to lie with the level of expertise of the candlemaker. Blaming suppliers, ingredients and manufacturers and "raising the flag" about a bad batch is inappropriate under these circumstances and only serves to vilify good suppliers and products by starting unsubstantiated rumours with misunderstanding and insufficient or conflicting data.

While Top's remarks may have been pointed, both his posts in this thread contained points WELL TAKEN. I think the sharpness of his tone revealed frustration, which frankly, I shared. Before succumbing to hurt feelings, it would be wise to consider ALL the advice you were given by others who have used C3 and the ingredients about which you complained! Success not only depends upon starting with good ingredients, it also depends upon production skills that must be learned by testing and being able to repeat those results over and over and over again. I never assume that ANY batch of vegetable wax candles will come out exactly like the one before it, especially in a home work environment.

If you sincerely think, after ALL the discussion, tips and help you have received, that your problems are the fault of the ingredients, the distributor, the shipper or the manufacturer, that you will send a sample of the wax batch you are questioning back to Cargill (the manufacturer of NatureWax), with DETAILED information on the procedures you used when making your candles, with a finished candle exhibiting the flaws you noted, and see if they can isolate the source(s) of your difficulties.

I hope you will interpret this post in the spirit in which it was written: to help you learn and not to malign you!

[Candlebuddy]

Hey E'dee ... I'm glad everything is working out for you. It's great to have a supplier in your area; no shipping. I understand about Fillmore ... I was there last week and decided that I would just :tiptoe: away.

[NoOneSpecial]

I just love how this person came on here sharing their experience without mentioning the suppliers name. She was pushed to tell who the supplier was and then after that it seems she is being jumped on. I really hate threads like this when a person comes on to share their experience and then becomes the bad person. This thread should be about what happened with the wax, not how much experience a person may or may not have. Good grief :tiptoe:

[kandleindulgence]

Hello, I'm sorry as well to hear about your ordeal and to make matters worst the company you ordered it from was of no help.

Personally, I recommend EcoSoya products. I have never had any problems out of the wax I use. I purchase it from Candle Science. The people at this company have always been willing to help. Check out there site: www.candlescience.com

HTH,

Jameel

[kandlekrazy]

I got another box of C3 delivered today and it is not sticky or gooey. It has the same feel as always and is still flaky. The lot is L7H07. If this is the same lot as yours, then it was probably a storage issue or shipping issue where the wax melted some.

[topofmurrayhill]

People have been talking about the drier versus the greasier C-3 flakes for over two years now. Look at the old threads. It was never an issue with the quality or performance of the wax.