new recipe with rbo

[katshe]

Have recieved advis to replace oo with rbo

This is what I have come up with

coconut 28%

cocoa b 5%

palm 30%

caster 17%

rbo 20%

hard 45

clean 19

cond 50

bub l 35

crm l 41

iodine 57

ins 157

I think these numbers look ok to give it a shot

What do you think?

[Tall Blonde]

Well, this is all just my opinion, and there are more experienced people here, but...

On paper the numbers look good. But remember, too much coconut is drying. And the soapmaking book I live by suggests that the combination of coconut and palm should not exceed 30%. Also, the castor oil is way too high. Too much castor oil could result in a soft, sticky soap. Also, some people may have a reaction to castor oil. Generally 3-5%, although I use 7% because I don't use palm. Do you have any other oils, like olive that you can use to balance it out?

[Soapmaker Man]

I would agree with tallblonde. I would reduce the castor to @5% and replace with perhaps canola oil if you want a store bought less expensive oil. That would be 12% canola, use no more than that though. Better yet would be 6% olive and 6% canola, not too much oilive keeping costs down, but still adding it's great conditioning aspect. I really like canola myself at 7 to 9% in my recipe.

Paul....

[topofmurrayhill]

And the soapmaking book I live by suggests that the combination of coconut and palm should not exceed 30%.

I'm thinking that could be a misquote. Maybe it says (or means) the combination of coconut and palm kernel oil. In other words, cleansing oils. A rule that's made to be broken I suppose, but the principle of it makes sense at least.

Coconut and palm doesn't seem to make sense because in certain respects those oils contribute complementary rather than cumulative qualities to the soap. Having to limit the combination of the two so stringently could significantly hamper formulating all-vegetable recipes.

[MarieJeanette]

This is just my opinion base on my own soaping experiences, but since there are a lot of hard oils in your recipe, I think your level of castor oil looks just fine. I use castor oil as high as 24% in some of my recipes with 60%-65% hard oils and they always come out beautifully hard with not even a hint of softness or stickiness in them. I think the so called 'castor % rule' can be broken in such instances. With that being said, though, I wouldn't try it in a soap with high percentage of soft oils.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm bad with certain rules. When someone says to me that it can't be done, I'm usually one of the first ones that sets out to test it to see whether it is really true or not (provided it's not something that's illegal or involves pain or death, that is ). I'm such a rebel in that way, and that's how I came to the conclusion that the 'castor rule' could be broken.

It's also how I learned that the 'coconut rule' is not a hard and fast rule for everyone either, and/or in every instance. I've found that it really comes down to people's individual sensitivities and/or skin types. Some people are sensitive to coconut and can't handle it over a certain percentage, while others do quite fantastic with it at even very high percentages. I do salt bars all the time with 100% coconut and my family and friends love them. To us they are not drying at all. I also recently did a 100% coconut batch without salt at a 20% super-fat and it feels just as luxurious and moisturizing to me as my Castiles.

To me, I would have no qualms about making your recipe as is. The numbers are actualy pretty close to one of my own personal favorite recipes. My conditioning numbers were a little higher (55), but a proper superfat around 7 would compensate for that if you didn't want to reformulate for a higher conditioning number.

The best advice I would to you is to experiment experiment, experiment and see what you like and what those around you like. Books, people, soap calculators (and even I) can say all they/we want, but until you actually make the soap recipe and try it out for yourself, you'll never know what you are missing and/or how to tweak it if need be for the next time. I say give it a shot!

MarieJeanette

[katshe]

I was trying to formulate a recipe without oo, I hate the smell of it in the shower .It seems that the fo is over powered by it

I also have another recipe with canola that seems like a safer way to go

but I am not sure if canola is stinky

here is the recipe

coconut 28%

canola 31%

palm 30%

caster 5%

cocoa b 6%

hard 43

clean 19

cond 53

b lath 24

cr lath 28

iodine 59

ins 147

I may try this first and thanks for the imput ,,,I am really new to this soaping and anxious to make my next batch

I am going to try formulating a coconut bar maybe with one other oil,,,trying to keep it simple

My objective here is a hard bar that is maade with oils I can get easily

So I am just wondering why recommended canola is only at 12%. is it a dos prob?(soapmaker man) If so I will be back to the soap calc to refigure this .

[Ann M]

I love RBO in my soaps. I usually stick with 1/2 OO and 1/2 RBO ( my original percent for OO is around 30%, so I use 15% OO and 15% RBO). I love the creaminess that RBO offers. I was using Canola for awhile and all was well. I was using it around 13%. Then I decided to up it closer to 20% and that's when I got my first DOS. I have since read that higher percentages of canola can lead to DOS.

Ann M

[katshe]

I so hate the smell of olive oil, maybe I have the wrong one but do notice that smell in my liquid dr bronner(trader joe brand) soap too...I hate that smell...soo maybe a combo of rbo and canola would do the trick?

looks like I'm back to the soapcalc

Thanks for info

[CareBear]

But remember, too much coconut is drying. And the soapmaking book I live by suggests that the combination of coconut and palm should not exceed 30%.

Have to disagree here. Many of you have tried my "break the rules" soap (got the recipe off the web) that's 75% CO (25% shea or cocoa butter, forget which) that is mild and wonderful even on my aging skin. And I have other recipes that exceed the limit that are also mild and lovely.

There is a synergy between oils that cannot easily be calculated and doesn't show up in the numbers. Go with your gut - try small batches, and modify based on what you experience. Use the numbers as a guide but don't count on them or any other rules.

[MarieJeanette]

Have to disagree here. Many of you have tried my "break the rules" soap (got the recipe off the web) that's 75% CO (25% shea or cocoa butter, forget which) that is mild and wonderful even on my aging skin. And I have other recipes that exceed the limit that are also mild and lovely.

There is a synergy between oils that cannot easily be calculated and doesn't show up in the numbers. Go with your gut - try small batches, and modify based on what you experience. Use the numbers as a guide but don't count on them or any other rules.

Very good post with excellent advice that I agree with 100% and that I practice wholeheartedly. I've tried the 'Break the Rules' soap, too, and can personally vouch that is it is quite lovely.

MarieJeanette

[Soapmaker Man]

Very good post with excellent advice that I agree with 100% and that I practice wholeheartedly. I've tried the 'Break the Rules' soap, too, and can personally vouch that is it is quite lovely.

MarieJeanette

Same with me guys! I use coconut oil at 23% and palm kernel oil at 11% in my best selling and most favored recipe. AT 34%, arrest me, take me to the "Soap jail" because I'm breaking the rule by 4%. LOL LOL Don't tell anyone, but sometimes I up my PKO to (dare I say it):lipsrseal 14% for a total of 37% for really hard water. I do up my lye discount to 7% though.

Paul... (soapmaker by trade...rebel because....I can!

[katshe]

I am still calculating my recipe and have toyed with this break the rules soap an am wondering if it is long lasting in the shower and also is it ecconomical as far as the cocoa butter , I believe that is about 8.00 a lb.

I may still go with

coconut,palm,canola,cocoa butter, and one other conditioning oil but would like to use and oil that I can get at the grocery store,,I was thinking of soybean but i am not experienced at all and not sure if it is a smelly oil as olive is

This soap is for hubby and he has very sensitive skin ...store bought soaps make him itch violently

I have made him a soap but that recipe has olive

[katshe]

Ok I am officially soap nuts...I have been at the soap calc so long that I was dreaming of soap qualities last night

So this is my formula, I think

coconut 28%

canola 12%

palm 36%

soybean 12%

cocoa b 5%

castor 7%

h 46

cl 19

con 50

bl 25

cl 33

iodine 59

ins 153

I may supper fat this at 7%, but what to discount lye /water 33 or 38%? for hp?

I think I like these numbers and will give it a go .

Still want to try a coconut/cocoa butter bar too.

[CareBear]

I personally use full water for HP - I've run into problems using a higher concentration than 30%. But there are others who are much better at HP than I am!!

[Soapmaker Man]

Ok I am officially soap nuts...I have been at the soap calc so long that I was dreaming of soap qualities last night

So this is my formula, I think

coconut 28%

canola 12%

palm 36%

soybean 12%

cocoa b 5%

castor 7%

h 46

cl 19

con 50

bl 25

cl 33

iodine 59

ins 153

I may supper fat this at 7%, but what to discount lye /water 33 or 38%? for hp?

I think I like these numbers and will give it a go .

Still want to try a coconut/cocoa butter bar too.

I think that is a good, solid recipe! All the numbers look just fine! That will be a great bar for you!

Paul....

[Scented]

Here I liked the looks of your second recipe lol!

What you may do is just try all three out and tinker from there.

My first formula was high on irritation, but I haven't lowered or changed much of what I've used, except the super fat and water and some additives like silk and sugar.

I've got what I think is a pretty mild bar and way too many tried experiments, but I keep altering to answer my what ifs.

The joy in trying out each of these recipes is you may find one of them you want to tinker with more than another and something that looks good in numbers, you may not like at all.

[Tall Blonde]

I'm thinking that could be a misquote. Maybe it says (or means) the combination of coconut and palm kernel oil. In other words, cleansing oils. A rule that's made to be broken I suppose, but the principle of it makes sense at least.

Coconut and palm doesn't seem to make sense because in certain respects those oils contribute complementary rather than cumulative qualities to the soap. Having to limit the combination of the two so stringently could significantly hamper formulating all-vegetable recipes.

It is palm kernel, sorry 'bout that. But also I don't use any palm or palm kernel ever because of the deleterious effects palm harvesting has on the environment. But then, I happen to love olive oil and prefer 100% oo soaps. Just make it and see what happens.

[katshe]

Ok I am officially soap nuts...I have been at the soap calc so long that I was dreaming of soap qualities last night

So this is my formula, I think

coconut 28%

canola 12%

palm 36%

soybean 12%

cocoa b 5%

castor 7%

h 46

cl 19

con 50

bl 25

cl 33

iodine 59

ins 153

I may supper fat this at 7%, but what to discount lye /water 33 or 38%? for hp?

I think I like these numbers and will give it a go .

Still want to try a coconut/cocoa butter bar too.

Ok , I finally made a decision and made this recipe this morn and am waiting for it to saponify in the oven , should be an hour or so till I can check it.

soo excited

It's like a kid at christmas waiting to see what you get