Dilution Oils - What are they?

[R.S.]

I just bought a Jimmy Belasco candle today. It's a pure soy candle with tremendous throw (hot and cold). Jimmy is the founder of E'rgo Candles, now out on his own.

In the description of his candles, he says "my fragrances are made without dilution oils".

What does that mean?

How does that compare to what we purchase through Peaks, CandleScience etc?

[tangerine]

I'm guessing that he means he uses them pure, undiluted. That would be the same as what we get from Peak, etc.

[The_Dallas_Texas_Dean]

Horrors!!! You mean you were actually a candle consumer!!!??? Careful, I have taken a lot of heat for that!

I agree that Jimmy's candles are excellent.

His fragrance oils are custom blended to his specs by the manufacturer. Not a big deal, actually, but he has done a nice job with his selection.

Sent you a PM

[wicked1]

I, too, love (secretly) the JB candles. I am also insane for the packaging.

[TxSioux]

I, too, love (secretly) the JB candles. I am also insane for the packaging.

No kidding, the guy has a magic touch & his marketing is above par for any product. If I remember correctly, he started making candles in his garage.

I don't do definitions too well, but fo's come from the manufacturer pure. Sleazy suppliers will dilute (water down) the fo w/ some kind of carrier to stretch their supply. Obviously, these suppliers won't tell you what they're doing, so stick w/ the reputable companies. If you're ever tempted, only buy sample sizes, so you don't get sunk for a lot of money. I've only fallen into this trap once -- it was a Mom & Pop local supplier that quickly went out of business. The fo's were so diluted I would have had to add gasoline to get them to burn! You never know what they're diluting w/ & it totally clogs a wick.

Susan.

[R.S.]

No kidding, the guy has a magic touch & his marketing is above par for any product. If I remember correctly, he started making candles in his garage.

I don't do definitions too well, but fo's come from the manufacturer pure. Sleazy suppliers will dilute (water down) the fo w/ some kind of carrier to stretch their supply. Obviously, these suppliers won't tell you what they're doing, so stick w/ the reputable companies. If you're ever tempted, only buy sample sizes, so you don't get sunk for a lot of money. I've only fallen into this trap once -- it was a Mom & Pop local supplier that quickly went out of business. The fo's were so diluted I would have had to add gasoline to get them to burn! You never know what they're diluting w/ & it totally clogs a wick.

Susan.

Thanks for the input, but Jimmy is doing something more than what we're getting from any supplier. I can smell his candles unlit across the house. They are STRONG. That is what I'm currently aspiring to, and I'm not happy because I don't think I can ever get there given what I'm willing to put into this.

[CandleGirl]

Are these 100% soy candles?

[R.S.]

Are these 100% soy candles?

yes. www.jimmybelasco.com

He doesn't show any of his candles on the website yet, but if you click on the links, you'll see them. They are AWESOME candles with the best throw I have ever smelled.

[CareBear]

So he's saying he uses straight EOs. Okay. So do I.

But there ARE legit reasons to dilute: 1. to stabilize, 2. to make measuring easier, 3. to make blending work better (not all materials are soluble in all materials), to make the EO work better in the base (soy wax, in this case).

But who cares if a candle mfg does. I only care if an EO supplier does.

His candles sound nice tho.

ETA: if he uses FOs I find it HIGHLY unlikely that there are no diluents in the FO. The chemicals our perfumers use are extremely strong and even in the labs we dilute them so that they are used at a level we can measure out. Besides, not all fragrance chemicals are compatible without an intervening diluent that will solubulize them. He may not use additional diluent (why would he) but I'm 99% sure the FO manufacturer does. This said, nothing's impossible - but not everything is probable.

[Candybee]

Love the packaging! and the gold tops!

[TxSioux]

Thanks for the input, but Jimmy is doing something more than what we're getting from any supplier. I can smell his candles unlit across the house. They are STRONG. That is what I'm currently aspiring to, and I'm not happy because I don't think I can ever get there given what I'm willing to put into this.

There's no doubt, this guy is doing something that none of the rest of us has thought of! This is why I always encourage anyone trying to think outside the box & do things that the majority says can't be done. I remember when 'everyone' said you couldn't add Vybar to soy, but many now do. It all comes down to dreaming a better dream & being brave enough to test crazy ideas. I would guess he has either found a combo of additives that no one else has discovered or he has the most amazing (& private) chemist mixing up fo's that can't be beat. There aren't many commercial candles I hold a deep respect for, but anything Jimmy puts his name on ... well, you can't hold a candle to it! -LOL-

Susan.

[MissMary]

The only thing I worry about is the fact that he's touting them add 100% soy with no chemical additives. By pure makeup to GET soy way, you have to add chemicals.

If he is using EO's and claiming no dilution, he's spending WAY more than what he's asking for price on the candle, because EO taken straight from a press is around 30 bucks for an ounce at the least, and there's only a very, very, very few EO organics that you can take from a press like that.

Just because you can eat it, doesn't mean you were eating something that wasn't bad for you in small amounts but is still listed as toxic. Hell, most people can handle a few drops of arsenic. You can eat paraffin too, and more than likely won't have any adverse effects from it (well unless you down it while hot or something ).

It's absolutely gorgeous packing and they do look great, but if they are so great, why resort to false scare tactics?

ETA: And one site makes mention of eating it (before fragrance of course), but if you are adding pure EO's, it's not going to hurt you either.

[Candybee]

I too was wondering about that 100% pure soy and no chemical additives claim. Is that his or the websites claim?

[so-soy]

What is 'pure essentials'? Is that essential oils or a fancy way of saying fragrance oils? Because I don't believe it can mean essential oils since I don't believe 'baby powder' is an essential oil! Or is he mixing some EO's to smell like bp ? LOL... Also someone please explain what is meant when he says "My pure soywax formula is made from only TWO simple ingredients; soybeans and vegetable oil - period! Interesting to say the least!

[R.S.]

The only thing I worry about is the fact that he's touting them add 100% soy with no chemical additives. By pure makeup to GET soy way, you have to add chemicals.

If he is using EO's and claiming no dilution, he's spending WAY more than what he's asking for price on the candle, because EO taken straight from a press is around 30 bucks for an ounce at the least, and there's only a very, very, very few EO organics that you can take from a press like that.

Just because you can eat it, doesn't mean you were eating something that wasn't bad for you in small amounts but is still listed as toxic. Hell, most people can handle a few drops of arsenic. You can eat paraffin too, and more than likely won't have any adverse effects from it (well unless you down it while hot or something ).

It's absolutely gorgeous packing and they do look great, but if they are so great, why resort to false scare tactics?

ETA: And one site makes mention of eating it (before fragrance of course), but if you are adding pure EO's, it's not going to hurt you either.

I don't recall seeing anywhere that he only uses EOs. He uses fragrance oils, most definitely. As for chemicals in the soy, many years ago CNN did an interview with him when he was still at Ergo and it showed him eating the soy chips. Given that it's basically pure trans fat, I hope he doesn't do that often, lol.

[RobinInOR]

I would expect that he's using concretes and absolutes in his fragrance formulas - most of the high end candle companies do when they're designing their blends. This can give you much richer fragrances than essential oils and aroma chemicals.

Yum, give me rose or jasmine absolute any time. I've got a tiny vial of jasmine and it's wonderful.

[R.S.]

I would expect that he's using concretes and absolutes in his fragrance formulas - most of the high end candle companies do when they're designing their blends. This can give you much richer fragrances than essential oils and aroma chemicals.

Yum, give me rose or jasmine absolute any time. I've got a tiny vial of jasmine and it's wonderful.

Ok, new term for this noobie. What's an absolute?

[RobinInOR]

There are different ways to extract from plant material. You solvent extract with hexane, filter and get the concrete, which is then ethanol-extracted to get the absolute (the ethanol evaporates). Both of those are more concentrated than the essential oil (they contain compounds that aren't water soluable), but there can be a minute amount of solvent remaining.

[MissMary]

I don't recall seeing anywhere that he only uses EOs. He uses fragrance oils, most definitely. As for chemicals in the soy, many years ago CNN did an interview with him when he was still at Ergo and it showed him eating the soy chips. Given that it's basically pure trans fat, I hope he doesn't do that often, lol.

That's my point though R.S. It's marketed as 100% all natural and many sites he's selling through and in his interviews, he's claiming there are no chemicals in his candles.

And like I said, just because you can eat it and not get sick off it, doesn't mean there isn't something in there that is the same as paraffin. BTW, I used to eat paraffin all the time... anyone remember those little coke bottle wax thingys? They had juice in them and you bit it to get the juice out?

He claims to use only Soybeans, 99% mix with 1% vegetable oil to make the wax more viable. That's chemically impossible to just grind up some soy beans, and 1 part versus 99 parts of oil and it be a soft, smooth, and long burning wax, especially if you are adding FO's. My great grandma was crafty and she taught us one time to make lard candles, but without other adds to it, lard lasts all of 1/3 of the time of the candles here today.

He says that's the formula, but then claims it's food grade soy wax. If he's buying his soy wax, the basic ingredients in soy wax do contain chemicals because the original inventor wasn't able to make it long lasting with just extract and oils alone. Who would pay for a soy candle if it's 20 bucks for a 12 oz. and it only lasts 8 hours?

ETA: I'm not saying soy is the devil and paraffin is the most awesomemest ever. I'm just talking about false marketing here. I've had some soy candles that I bought from a member here in the same scents I have, and sometimes a scent throws so AWESOME in soy, and blah in paraffin. I believe it's personal preference on what to use, but don't scare people into thinking they'll keel off tomorrow if they burn a non-soy candle.

[R.S.]

That's my point though R.S. It's marketed as 100% all natural and many sites he's selling through and in his interviews, he's claiming there are no chemicals in his candles.

And like I said, just because you can eat it and not get sick off it, doesn't mean there isn't something in there that is the same as paraffin. BTW, I used to eat paraffin all the time... anyone remember those little coke bottle wax thingys? They had juice in them and you bit it to get the juice out?

He claims to use only Soybeans, 99% mix with 1% vegetable oil to make the wax more viable. That's chemically impossible to just grind up some soy beans, and 1 part versus 99 parts of oil and it be a soft, smooth, and long burning wax, especially if you are adding FO's. My great grandma was crafty and she taught us one time to make lard candles, but without other adds to it, lard lasts all of 1/3 of the time of the candles here today.

He says that's the formula, but then claims it's food grade soy wax. If he's buying his soy wax, the basic ingredients in soy wax do contain chemicals because the original inventor wasn't able to make it long lasting with just extract and oils alone. Who would pay for a soy candle if it's 20 bucks for a 12 oz. and it only lasts 8 hours?

ETA: I'm not saying soy is the devil and paraffin is the most awesomemest ever. I'm just talking about false marketing here. I've had some soy candles that I bought from a member here in the same scents I have, and sometimes a scent throws so AWESOME in soy, and blah in paraffin. I believe it's personal preference on what to use, but don't scare people into thinking they'll keel off tomorrow if they burn a non-soy candle.

He does not say that his candle is 100% natural, he says he uses 100% soy wax.

[MissMary]

He marketed Ergo that way and does so with his own line now, I'll look for the interviews after lunch. One was from the Extract Expo.

It's also mentioned on his retailers sites. If he doesn't know what his retailers are saying and misinforming about his candles, then that says a lot about him as well. (I.E. Who cares what the people that sell my candles say, as long as they get sold!)

[R.S.]

He marketed Ergo that way and does so with his own line now, I'll look for the interviews after lunch. One was from the Extract Expo.

It's also mentioned on his retailers sites. If he doesn't know what his retailers are saying and misinforming about his candles, then that says a lot about him as well. (I.E. Who cares what the people that sell my candles say, as long as they get sold!)

Yes, I'd love to see the interviews. I just went back and checked all four links to retailers that he shows on his website and I did not anywhere see it mentioned that it was a 100% natural candle. Only that he used 100% soy wax and premium fragrances.

[so-soy]

This is what I was wondering in my previous post...anyway, he IS trying to say his candles are all natural when he states there is only 2 parts in his wax, soybeans and vegetable oil...also he states he's using 'pure essentials' to scent with....

[R.S.]

This is what I was wondering in my previous post...anyway, he IS trying to say his candles are all natural when he states there is only 2 parts in his wax, soybeans and vegetable oil...also he states he's using 'pure essentials' to scent with....

I interpret this as saying his wax is all natural, not his candles are all natural. There is a difference. In the little description in the box he says he is using the finest fragrances. I guess I would need to see how "pure essentials" is defined to know if that's contradictory.

I feel like we've gotten off topic here, lol. Natural or not, they are DAMN GOOD candles!

[so-soy]

Oh I'm sure they are great candles! I would love to burn one someday but not at those prices..yikes!