Pouring cool vs. hot, time issue

[geekrunner]

Here's an issue we can tackle!

Many of us try to save time in candlemaking in various ways. Some of us want to have a soy that we can pour hot and have smooth tops, since it means we don't have to wait for the pour pot of scented wax to cool to near 100 degrees. Example: I had to wait at least one hour for a 3 lb pour pot of straight MC soy to cool from 185 deg to 115 deg, at which time it just got cloudy. Tops are pretty smooth, but could have poured 5 deg cooler. The candles cooled and solidified faster, though.

Here's the issue: If you take the total time from when you fill the pour pot and add scent, pour the candle, allow to cool to a solidified candle, would it not be about the same time to pour hot, and then wait to cool? Also, is adding beeswax to have smooth tops while pouring hot worth the extra money for the time it might (or might not) save?

[Henryk]

You would think that it wouldn't matter pouring cool or pouring hot, since either way the wax is cooling in one place or the other - but really, pouring regular soys slushy does work IMO. I got worse tops pouring regular soys before this stage. You can pour it hot, but then you have to poke and heat gun them, and in my experience I've had some that the wax just didn't set up right - and it went all the way THROUGH the entire container. They had to just be repoured.

Yes, adding 2 or 3% BW is worth it if you use straight soy or the soy/cottonseed blends. It will also start congealing at a higher temp (I think I used to pour mine about 116F instead of 100 to 105F) so you can pour sooner.

I know some people have issues with the no-frost soys - but in my experience it doesn't matter when you pour them - say the ecosoya CBA/stearic blend - no difference if I pour it at 165 or lower. (see http://www.candletech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3792&page=2#19). I've duplicated this since many times, so now I just pour it whenI'm ready - which is really nice because I do sessions where I do a lot of candles at once - not just soy. If I pour the soy hot yes, it does indeed take longer for them to cool but they are already poured by that time and I can just forget about them and now they'll be perfect.

[mystical_angel1219]

You can pour Superior Soy at 160'F or below.

I have to email her and see who the manufacturer is before I buy it.

http://www.greatcandle.com/wax.htm

Anyone had any experiences with this soy?

[topofmurrayhill]

Here's the issue: If you take the total time from when you fill the pour pot and add scent, pour the candle, allow to cool to a solidified candle, would it not be about the same time to pour hot, and then wait to cool?

Well if you mean the time it takes to get finished candles, it would be faster to pour hot. By pouring into the candle containers you vastly increase the ratio of surface area (for cooling) to volume of wax. The wax cools more slowly in the pour pot.

[RustyTN]

This may be a REALLY dumb question, but...

Why can I pour tarts hot and they have smooth tops, but my candles don't?

Or if I accidentally forget about the wax in the pour pot (yes, I've done this! ) it sets up with the smoothest top I've ever seen?!?

Just curious.

[Marilyn]

I also have left the wax in the pouring pot and got beautiful smooth surface!! but I have noticed that all the shortcuts just aren't worth it. Trying to pour hot and all the improved waxes to do that, just don't seem to work so far, the original method of pouring cool has been most successful, in my testing. I use Superior Soy also and even tho they say you can pour hotter, my best candles are ones poured cool. So, I just go with that!

[geekrunner]

I am working with MC soy, and poured some jars @ 115 deg. I have poured two more @ 150 deg and will see how it works. I definitely want to save time, but still have a presentable candle with as little grief as possible.

Well if you mean the time it takes to get finished candles, it would be faster to pour hot. By pouring into the candle containers you vastly increase the ratio of surface area (for cooling) to volume of wax. The wax cools more slowly in the pour pot.

I can see that happening. I even contemplated having less wax in pot but that means pouring only two candles at once, rather than six to eight.

Also, would more scent escape through a full pour pot rather than several poured containers all waiting to cool?

[rookie2004]

I use plain 415 & 3% beeswax. If I pour hot @ 165 I tend to get alot of bubbles trapped on the sides of the jars and the tops look terrible. I started pouring @ 105 slightly slushy, the candles look great. Tried to get a smoother top so I added 1% more beeswax for a total of 4% and the tops are as smooth as parafin candles. I did notice that with more beeswax the wax started setting up much quicker in the pour pot and needed zapped with the heat gun to get the last couple of ounces out of the pot. The next time I'll try pouring a little sooner like about 110 and see what happens. It takes time and patience, something we never seem to have enough of these days.

HTH

John

[Fire and Ice]

I use C-3 and the only way to pour it is HOT! Follow the wax pour directions by manufactor! I will only use HOT POUR wax but I also do two pours. I have much better things to do than stand around waiting for wax to cool.

[islandgirl]

I am with Fire and Ice on this one!!:highfive:

I don't have the time to sit an wait till it cools. To me if a top sets up looking like crap, well I will just zap it and it fills in all my holes and it looks great after that. (or I will do a double pour if necessary, but not to often)

A lot less time wasted IMHO waiting for the soy to cool....

[Sharon in KY]

Well since I have a pour pot for every scent I just go on and mix the next several scents. Also I pour tarts hot so I'm pouring them while the candle wax is cooling. I have a fan on my counter blowing right at my pour pots to speed things up. And I always do a second pour, no mater what because I want to make sure there are no air pockets. I use the end of my spoon and poke a hole next to the wick. I also pour very full and decorate most tops so I always have time to wait for the wax to cool. Funny my candles are looking really good right now, but a few months ago, same wax, they had a lot of problems. Glad the hot weather is on it's way out.

:yay:

[geekrunner]

Appreciate all the responses! Lots of good tips on using time wisely.

[VickiB in CA]

I'm new to the whole soy wax "thang" and have been loving it. It's just like me to try to do a big "switcheroo" right before the busy season! (I've used J223 for 3 years).

This is what I've been trying - may have already been tried by some of you and would like your results if possible.

I reserve about 2 ozs of the shaved wax while melting the other 6 ozs of a 1/2 lb test candle in the microwave and get it up to 190 - 200. I add the color and FO and then add the 2 ozs of room temp wax quickly to cool it down. Seems to kinda be working but then I'm new to this and what I think looks ok may be a really ugly candle?! :undecided

Has anyone tried doing anything like this?

Thanks for any responses -

[Sharon in KY]

I have done that before, last night in fact. Was making 4 lbs of wax and used 55oz hot wax, mixed color and scent, stirred well, then added 5oz of flakes, stirred again. They melted and it was a little cooler. Sat in front of fan and within 10 minutes or so, I poured. Workes great, just don't remember to do it all the time. Plus if I'm pouring tarts I have to pour hot. But since I have more candle orders this time of the year I'll have to do it more. Thanks for reminding me.

[VickiB in CA]

If you want to get really creative and go for an even quicker cool down - maybe keep a supply of the flakes in the fridge and then you won't have to add as much to cool it down?? :undecided Just a thought.

[jacobSue]

There are many ways to get a smooth top.

first, you can pour hot and then use a heat gun.

Second, You can pour at a low temp.

Third, you can pour with about an half inch left, let it cool then pour the top.

This is only if it is pure soy. If you are using a soy blend, C3, ecosoy, GW444 or GW449 then you can pour at any temp.

JS

[VickiB in CA]

I'm using the Calsoy CB3 (100% soy/veg). I don't need to cool down with this one? That would be great.

Thanks for the help!

[topofmurrayhill]

I reserve about 2 ozs of the shaved wax while melting the other 6 ozs of a 1/2 lb test candle in the microwave and get it up to 190 - 200. I add the color and FO and then add the 2 ozs of room temp wax quickly to cool it down. Seems to kinda be working but then I'm new to this and what I think looks ok may be a really ugly candle?! :undecided

There was an intriguing suggestion (with explanation) in a recent thread that it might be very beneficial to do what you're doing.

http://www.candletech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4547

[jacobSue]

I don't believe that Cal Soy is 100% soy. I think they add cotton and an additive. So you should be able to pour this at a higher temp.

JS

[VickiB in CA]

Thanks! I'll try not cooling and see what happens. The Calsoy CB3 is a natural Soy/Veg blend. I'm not sure what they they miss with the soy but with the testing I've done so far, it almost seems to throw better than my J223, if you can believe that?!