Ready to try new stuff

[Jeana]

I have been looking at all the really cool things to do with pillars lately. All of them appear to be done with paraffin, so I am wondering which of the techniques can be used for veggie pillars. I was thinking the marble, chunk, and rainbows should be ok for veg wax right? Can we do rustic, I love this look? And what about crackle or layering, which by the way how is this done?

If some of these are doable, is the wicking kept the same, cuz you can't just repour it?

If there are any other cool techniques for veg pillars please fill me in.

[Henryk]

Hi Jeana,

Someone asked the same thing back in early August - but unfortunately I was the only one to reply. http://www.candletech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2044&highlight=mottle

Soy wax doesn't have the same molecular structure (doesn't that sound like I know what I'm talking about - NOT!) as paraffin so that is why I believe it just doesn't lend itself to changing of throse structures like paraffin does. (Top will correct me if this is wrong I hope).

Layers worked very well for me at least. I'm going to be trying some real soon with the Eco CBA. Some people say soy bleeds the colors too much but I haven't found that to be a problem. Just wait until the layer sets up a bit, then pour just a thin layer of your next color, let that set up a bit, then pour the rest of that same color, and repeat. I'll keep better notes this time when I do them, but really, last couple times I did them, I didn't do anything special and they came out fine (did those candy-corn colored layers - common, but I like them!).

There have been some marbles posted in the archive veg board by Lovesoy and Vickey at this post: http://www.candletech.com/cgi-local/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=veggiewax;action=display;num=1082318659;start=15

I guess you can whip the wax and do grubby stuff with it. Other than that I don't recall anyone ever achieving the things you can with paraffin. Thats why when I want those effects I just use that, except I've been using the 6028 a lot also, which is easier to work with than soy pillar wax and definately burns better IMO.

Regarding wicking, that should be the same - it would only vary with the usual things, like additives, FO, strong dye, and diameter.

HTH

[topofmurrayhill]

The scientific answer is, there's only so much you can do with congealed Crisco.

Let's face it, there are just a few simple reasons why soy is a popular fuel for candles:

1. Misinformation, bogus research, and unscrupulous advertising about its health and environmental benefits.
   
2. An emotional appeal to using a fuel that's associated with agriculture vs. the petrochemical industry (though I think people envision it more like Jed the American Farmer with a piece of straw in his mouth, rather than the big corporations actually responsible for cultivation and refining of soy).
   
3. Market acceptance of jars of opaque scented stuff, an application in which soy wax works well.

Now on the paraffin side of the world, the last thing I'm interested in is petrolatum gunk like J-223 and its kin. Any FO maven who knows how to wick a jar of preformulated gunk is now considered an expert candlemaker. Frankly I wouldn't even formulate it myself because I'm not convinced petrolatum belongs in candles and it may be giving the art of paraffin candlemaking a bad name.

HOWEVER, creating a soft opaque container candle with soy wax is much more appealing to me and I've been really enjoying learning about it!

But pillars and votives? I suppose if you know you have customers ready to gobble them up it might be worth bothering, but otherwise nah. You can do it if you want to make a lower-quality replica of the boring candles they made 30 years ago. Personally I don't see much point in doing anything but containers with these waxes.

If you want to fully explore and grow as a candlemaker, you need to expand into paraffin.

I hope that was opinionated enough, LOL.

[mystical_angel1219]

Top~ WTF!!

I am not seeing the "joy of soy" here hon!

Yes, soy is limited in what you can do with it. I agree 100%. I have been making candles for about 14 years out of about every wax out there in the market. Soy does have good points! I have to give you some crap, LMAO!

Can you feel the love? :highfive:

However~ Jeana- I have to eat my pie of crow and let you know that there really isn't much you can do with soy pillars. First off, they cannot be "hugged" like a traditional wax pillar. The edges must be broken off when the candle is cool and either discarded or thrown in a tart burner. Plus the added time and toil of educating your customers how to do this. Its a PITA. I only do soy pillars for very few customers. You can do layers with extensive cooling in between pours, an opaque looking chunkie~(ugh), and grubby looking whipped wax. It all depends on your customer base.

If you want to do interesting effects on pillars and remain with the "natural wax concept" so to speak~ I would recommend testing some Palm waxes. They have some really cool effects but don't get too excited... the scent throw is really nothing fabulous unless you cure these babies for about 3- 6 months. I find them useful as dinner candles as the hot scent throw is nothing spectacular. I only do paraffin for hurricanes. I have some 1343 laying around and one of these days I might actually put it to use..... LMAO!!

[topofmurrayhill]

Hey doll, sorry if my tone was off but really the only things I meant to disrespect in that post were J-223 type waxes and people who lie about soy.

I love soy wax for containers and I'm having a blast with it. Honestly I just don't think it's very interesting for other applications (except tarts of course). It's good to explore all kinds of waxes as HenryK has been doing over time. Personally my interests are centered on paraffin but I love to work with soy, beeswax and even bayberry as well.

I want to see what you can do with that 1343. Get on your horse!

[mystical_angel1219]

No biggie Top, I was just playin' with you. :smiley2:

I do enjoy Henryk's experiences as well. He is very detail oriented and I do love to see his creations. He has always been an asset to CT.

After the busy season, I really am going to dust off my pillar molds and paraffin and play around a bit. I haven't touched a 1343 candle (one I made) in at least 6 years. But I see alot of beautiful candles in our gallery I'd like to try to create myself. So many ideas, so little time.

I myself have never been a fan is the J-wax series. I also despise people that ride the soy train. I see it everywhere as a marketing ploy. Soy does have some beneficial aspects. But its not going to save the planet from using up all our natural resources. I don't think alot of consumers realize how many products that we use in daily life that contain some form of a fossil fuel, natural resource or not solely produced in the USA . Its food for thought.

[prairieannie]

Okay all you J haters...you must fill me in. How is it that the J waxes "may be giving the art of parrafin candle making a bad name"? Please elaborate. I happen to be a lover of J223. I am so very curious! I can totally understand the "soy train" argument. Not a fan, but since I love my ooey gooey J223, I am wondering how anyone could hate it and why! Please be a dear Top, and fill me in? Or anyone else?

[CandleFreak]

Okay all you J haters...you must fill me in. How is it that the J waxes "may be giving the art of parrafin candle making a bad name"? Please elaborate. I happen to be a lover of J223. I am so very curious! I can totally understand the "soy train" argument. Not a fan, but since I love my ooey gooey J223, I am wondering how anyone could hate it and why! Please be a dear Top, and fill me in? Or anyone else?

I think "top" is a wax geek and just has to have a challenge and the J-waxes are too user friendly for him

top - am I right on this....btw this was not meant to be disrespectful in any way....just an observation from reading many of your posts throughout the forum

[topofmurrayhill]

Well I shoulda known I'd get in trouble over that one.

Regarding being a wax geek, guilty as charged.

But even if I were rolling my own, I wouldn't make that kind of container fill because I'm prejudiced against petrolatum as an additive. This material is a less refined (more oily) version of the Vaseline in your bathroom. It contributes to making a sooty candle, especially in combination with aggressive wicking and scenting. It's not only about J-223, but similar waxes such as IGI 4627, IGI 4630, J-50...

I was saying that for creamy opaque container fill, soy wax just seemed a much more appealing material.

[Jeana]

Kind of funny how this started as a technique discusion and now it has become a wax bashing discusion. I was just curious of the limitations of veg. waxes. I like them and I don't want to switch to par., at this time any way. I may or may not be on a "soy train", but mostly I have a ton of money and test time wrapped up in the wax I already have. I was thinking it would be fun to learn new stuff to do with it. Not to mention my clients are wanting to stick with veg waxes too. Veg wax pillar blends are not even close to being "congealed crisco". They are a blend of many different plant waxes not just soy. I guess I will just play around with some stuff and see what I come up with.

Thanks:smiley2:

[prairieannie]

Well I shoulda known I'd get in trouble over that one.

Regarding being a wax geek, guilty as charged.

But even if I were rolling my own, I wouldn't make that kind of container fill because I'm prejudiced against petrolatum as an additive. This material is a less refined (more oily) version of the Vaseline in your bathroom. It contributes to making a sooty candle, especially in combination with aggressive wicking and scenting. It's not only about J-223, but similar waxes such as IGI 4627, IGI 4630, J-50...

I was saying that for creamy opaque container fill, soy wax just seemed a much more appealing material.

Not in trouble at all! I'm always ready to learn, even when I am stuck on a certain product, I'm not foolish enough to believe that someone can't teach me new things about it. Sorry if it appeared as though I was jumpin down your throat Top... I enjoy learning and just wanted to know.

We can move this topic to it's own thread if it would make ya feel better Jeana!

[soygirl]

Okay, I'll stick up for soy. I'm sure I'm one of those being accused of riding the soy train. The truth is, though, that I started out making candles with paraffin, and when I tried soy I just liked working with it better. No more sticky spots on the floor - if I spill soy wax, I just wipe it up, or scrape it off. Everything cleans up so much easier. I can melt soy wax in a presto pot in a mere fraction of the time it took to melt paraffin in a double boiler. I cut my electric bill significantly when I switched. I use the advantages of soy wax as a selling point, but they are the advantages that I noticed myself when I switched: soy DOES last longer than paraffin, I get much better scent throw - hot and especially cold with soy, I notice less wick smoking, and I really like the fact that it is an agricultural product.

But, to address Jeana's original topic - Here are some things that I've been able to do with soy:

- Make soy wax embeds (soy votive works well - so does soy container/piller wax 4:1) to decorate the top of container candles.

- Whip soy pillar wax to make "icing" and "whip cream"

- Make drink candles, like hot chocolate with whip cream, or ice cream drinks in specialty glasses with fruit embeds on top.

- Make wickless candles and wax potpourri melts.

- Make cinnamon buns and other bakery candles from rubber molds (although pie crusts don't work with soy unless you add beeswax)

Hope this gives you some ideas.

-Margie