How important is Business Integrity?

[SliverOfWax]

Much ado about nothing. I got the feeling that you think whoever doesn't respond has zero integrity. If you've got something to say, spit it out. You're among friends. We'll try to help you.

[The_Dallas_Texas_Dean]

I, too, noticed somewhat Of a fishing expedition....but I am sure it made you feel better. The bitterness is apparent.

I disagree that this is much ado about nothing. I believe that it needs to be discussed more often. Especially with children and with people that have businesses.

Integrity is expensive. It has cost me plenty. I have also gained much from having it. It is black and white with me...no gray.

I have many recollections in my 30+ years of business, and yes...down to a word or one single penny, I am FANATIC about it. If there is doubt, I have always chosen to play it safe and give the benefit of doubt to the customer/friend/neighbor, etc. You either have it or you don't. You can't pick and choose when to have it. You have it all the time or you do not have it. If you lie, you do not have it. If you cheat or misrepresent, you do not have it. If you have to rationalize, you do not have it. If you are not loyal, you do not have it.

Ultimately, your word/name is all you have. Once it has been compromised, it is tainted and can not be repaired. Even an apology for something you KNOWINGLY chose to do wrong will not repair the distrust.

My parents were amazing role models when it came to this.

I never heard "Tell them I am not here" when the phone rang and they were busy.

They paid ALL their taxes....every penny.

When they sold a car....they told the person purchasing "it will need brake pads soon.,..and every other thing that might be wrong with it".

Silence can be as bad as telling a lie.

There are universal "rights and wrongs"....and we all know the difference between the two. Very rarely does ignorance come to play when it comes to integrity.

Oh I know there are those out there that have laughed, make fun and believed that I have been a "chump" many times in my business dealings, thinking they have "got to me". The truth is, it has served me well. You can be savvy and choose to have integrity.

Good topic regardless of what generated it or how it came about.

[Funky Monkey]

Silence can be as bad as telling a lie.

quote]

VERY good point. I don't think some folks have realized that chosing to do nothing about a problem is still chosing to do something.

<scratching my head> Did that come out right??

[Texas Rose]

I can't say enough thank you's for those who have been supportive and understanding. This situation has brought me to tears in alot of respects, affected my marriage, and created havoc in our lifestyle. I know that I have worked hard to keep my life on the straight and narrow, admit my mistakes when I make them, and do unto others as I would hope they would do unto me.

It's not that I don't want to talk about the details as to what is happening, it's just that I don't have the power to do anything about "IT", in spite of how I'm affected by it...it's as if I/we are almost being a victim of someone's deceit.

I'm just trying to muddle through the situation and talk to the person who is directly involved so that that person can have the courage to take some action and/or make a decision. All in all, the whole situation has been a major letdown for this person as well. And I can't give that person the confidence they need to get through this..I can only pray for the strength to deal with it. Either way I look at it - something will change eventually - cause it can't continue in the manner that it is going.

I'm not so much 'hateful' about it, as sad and disappointed. But bad things do happen to good people. And doing the right thing won't always mean that others will do right as well. There are many folks I have met over the years who claim that they are one thing, and then show themselves to be another. In this case, it comes unforseen, tho' in another way, I should not be surprised. I just didn't think this person would take that kind of chance to do someone wrong.

I just want to say thank you for your insights, comments whether good or bad, it's the way of life and worth understanding how others feel, with the limited information I was able to convey. I hope I can still approach things with some courage in spite of the ways things may go on this end. If all we lose is money, then so be it. At least I will not lose any sleep at night for doing something bad against another human being. I don't think I could even live with myself if I did, without showing some reconciliation. I would rather have a partner who believes in something right and suffer the loss - then to acquiesce to someone else's bad manners and business practices.

I remain humbled by your contributions.

from a fellow candlemaker...

Texas Rose

[Candle Man]

I believe that being open about your candle info is better than acting like you made it up yourself. After all, there is nothing new under the sun, that someone hasn't already figured out. Trying to hide something is a laugh.

I can't agree with this.

I don't think proprietary formulas is lying, it is a part of business to have secret formulas. That's what makes theirs & my products different and unique. If everybody made the same product with the same formula then there wouldn't be many making things.

[LynnS]

Candle Man,

Very well said.Sounds like you were raised by parents that had the same philosophy as mine.My family had businesses. Grandma and Grandpa owned a grocery store and years ago let people charge(not with cards).If customers did not have money at the time they put it on a bill and paid a little at a time.Yes that honesty thing.Those were the days I loved.Aunt had a appliance store and 2 uncles/aunts had grocery stores so business was on both sides of my family.People charging all the time.

That is where I probably, through my parents, learned honesty and if you aren't honest it will come back on you.I mean even gossip or cheating you will be found out in the end.I taught my husband that too.He even tells people when something is wrong he goes back to correct it and will say "My wife instilled that in me when we first married".So here I made a impression on my husband who is just a few years older than me.

A few times I have found things in my cart I wasn't sure were rung up.Back into the store.It is usually OK but once or twice I had to pay maybe $.35 for a can of cat food that fell in the corner.

I don't make any money but not to say I won't be in the future.As we have all said it is the area we live and how things are going.I would love to charge more for my candles and make alot more for me and the work/time I put into it but they would sit and won't be sold. My goal is to open a shop but if not I want to travel to closer areas and sell.States close to me.I am happy for those who sell out or sell $1,000 at shows.I would have no idea what that is like.Probably in the end I am not cheating anyone but myself.Hard work and no pay.When I get my tax stuff in order I think they will be shocked.There is so much I brought but so little I sold.All cash at craft shows.

I wish Texas Rose luck.She is in deep if it hurts her family.I was in a situation like that and it hurt me and my family so my husband and I went the other way.We can be over it and turn the other cheek.Sounds like Texas Rose cannot.It is a bad business situation she seems to be in.

LynnS

Honesty is the best Policy!!!!!!!!

[Twoscentsworth]

Think I understand your reason for posting and you have my sympathy for finding yourself in a difficult situation.

Unfortunately it seems that a lot of people have no integrity, no ethics and no moral fiber. A lot of people have a mentality that however they get anything as long as they get it is fine and that anyone they can take advantage of is a "chump" and deserves it. Most people want everything handed to them on a silver tray (examples here : how do I make a good candle? do I really have to test? what wax, container, fo, wick do I use? gee, should we come pour it for you too?) THEN if something happens in business it is NEVER the business' fault, it's yours or someone elses. No one stands up and accepts responsibility any more...it is never "the buck stops here" its "let me pass this buck around until it isn't worth a cent". The days of a mans (or womans) word being his bond seems to be over....at least for the majority of people. We have seen that on this board before too.

I find it extremely prevalent in the younger generation...is it because so many mothers had to work and couldn't raise them? because so many fathers took off and weren't around? Is it because we took God and the commandments out of the classroom? because we sat them in front of TV sets and let them learn from there? IMO it's a combination of all of the above.

Now if you are one of the "younger generation" and do have integrity etc don't get all bent out of shape....I was generalizing and know that some of you are honest etc.

that is only my Two Scents Worth, and probably about what it's worth

[LynnS]

Twoscentsworth.

I have seen it in the younger generation.They are professionals and college graduates at times.It must be that parents aren't around but also find that parents back them and don't care.Hey how in the world did they learn to be crooked and wicked in the first place.MOM AND DAD.That is who teaches us right from wrong.It has become don't care what you do, how you act or who you hurt as long as it makes you happy.When my granddaughter visits we talk about behavior and how to act.I know her mother does the same and if she goes a different direction she will not be backed.We will be on her case.It is not how some are in the world today.So if I meet those kind who do not act or talk appropriate I do not associate with them or their behavior. I am not perfect but I do have morals.

I so agree about the Ten Commandments.So sad they are not taught to kids now that they are in school.It really gets to me that kids are not allowed to pray before going to class and then we see kids killed in classrooms all the time.Praying before they go and telling family how much they love them.How sad is that.Something upsetting that happened to my sisters.They got into a argument before one died.So my one sister calls my grandson and talks to him and asks what should I do about it?My wonderful grandson said Aunt--------I think you should pray about it.So he said a prayer with my sister.Not long after that she passed away. We need to be respectful to each other all the time.It broke my heart when I said to my sister when she was dying Did you see _________.A frown came over her face.It has been very hurtful for me but she was treated badly.She did see my sister but she was still in pain and upset how she was talked to.

LynnS

[wilsonswix]

I just wanted to share a story with you all. A year ago, I had a table set up at a flea market just to gauge interest and hopefully make a few sales. I always keep my goal very low (table rent). Well, I made it (whew). But was pretty dissapointed in sales in general that day. Not to mention at the time I was unemployed.

That evening, my daughter and I went to a local festival for fun & to watch the band. It was after dark and I needed to use the restroom. As I was walking to the school I noticed a deposit bag. Most of the craft vendors had left already for the evening. I looked inside to see which vendor it might have been, and all they used were generic receipts.... no company name. OH yeah, lots and lots of money in there also. I have to say, I was kicking myself all the way to the bathroom and back out to find a police officer to give it to.

I had a really crappy day, with crappy sales and here is a big ole bag of money...... LOL But I always put myself in someone else's position and I considered if I had had a really good day with sales and then lost that money, I would just feel ill. Just as ill as if I had kept it. Amazing how the human body/mind works, huh???

Just a PS though...... if you are at a show and drop your bag of money, be sure you have something inside like a business card or something.

[sockmonkey]

Actually, I wish I could tell you what has been happening. But it strikes

to close to home in the candle community, that I would be jeopardizing

someone's welfare .

I will have to see what I can do from a legal end to help this person along. Or either, just let it go. It's hard to have to sit back and watch what is happening, and yes, I am affected by a particular someone, and their actions in the matter. This situation affects the financial stablity of my family.

Especially since it is from someone that was suppose to be trustworthy.

I do appreciate the advice from the person who recommended going to get some 'legal' advice... This may be our only recourse.

I wish I could say more...and I didn't do this to get a rise out of anyone.

I'm just trying to figure out what to do in the meantime.

Hmmm..Taking legal action to "help" this person along. Are you sure you don't really mean help you and your family?

I guess you're trying to make us read between the lines. From what I'm gathering, the person you are talking about, which you allege lacks integrity must be a member here.

[mizbizzyb]

Hmmm..Taking legal action to "help" this person along. Are you sure you don't really mean help you and your family?

I guess you're trying to make us read between the lines. From what I'm gathering, the person you are talking about, which you allege lacks integrity must be a member here.

That is what I am reading as I read between the lines...

[Sherl]

Interesting thread and answers. Used to be a mans word and a handshake closed business deals. Things have changed in the world. However, my 2 cents worth is - business ethics are very imnportant to me, as a comsumer and a producer.

If I find a business doing something unethical, like not reporting cash sales, fudging books or even the owner cheating on a spouse.. I don't care to do business with them. If they would compromise in some of these areas.. what makes me think they won't compromise the product I'm buying or how they deal with me. If you see deciet and dishonesty in one area, stands to reason it is in others. Play with a snake long enough and you will get bit. I'd rather pay more and support the honest business any day.

Personally.. yes I try to run a very ethical business. I don't cheat my books, I pay sales tax on every sale.. including friends and other 'vendors', even if it means backing it out of the price they paid. If I say I will be there or do something.. it can be counted on. Yes, I test everything before I sell it, I figure my own prices.. sure I see what the competition is getting but I'm not going to lower prices to compete with someone that just wants any old sale. I believe in exceeding the customers expectations in product and customer service. Why? Because when I am that customer I am impressed and become loyal.

I hate debt so yes eveyone is paid in a timely manner.. including my son who helps me at the shows. He gets his 'paycheck' at the end of each day.

As far as how others are treated... we all will reap a harvest of what we sow. I try to sow kindness rather than ugliness. Even more important.. that son of mine is watching. Kind of hard to tell him to be kind if he hears me gossiping and backbiting others. If I don't have the walk I need to forget the talk.

[VerticallyEnhanced]

From what I'm gathering, the person you are talking about, which you allege lacks integrity must be a member here.

I am thinking supplier. Lots of vague insinuations but that is just what I keep thinking as I read along.

[sockmonkey]

It makes you really wonder about the whole "integrity" question. Do you have integrity to suggest scandalous problems exist and not identify the source if you knew other people might also be exposed to the same situation?

Do the same people who claim they would never do business with a company with "unethical" business practices shop at Walmart? They've been found to discriminate against women and use use illegal aliens as "contractors" in their stores. They've sold clothing made by children in sweatshops. Is it hypocritical to shop there?

[Sherl]

I don't think we are talking about 'suggesting' something exists. When one comes to knowledge that it does exist, then one has a choice. Your Walmart example.. if you don't know what they are doing, then shop there. If you find out and it does not bother you, then shop there. However, if you have a problem with how they are running their business.. take your money somewhere else. If they wrong you there are legal steps that can be taken. I gave up Walmart because I do not agree with some of what they do. It was a personal choice, I'm not out trying to get others to do the same. Badmouthing Walmart will not get them to change their ways any more than dragging the details of what's going on into this forum. Confronting the 'unethical' business and asking them to make things rights should be done before a public trashing is ever considered.

[KristinesShower]

I totally believe in good morals and integrity in business too. (I've just been too busy to answer!)

[Everito Bandito]

Yes, I totally agree in good morals and integrity in business as well. I've just been so busy telling new lies and dancing around putting out fires from old lies, scheming up some new scams and whatnot, that I'm just now getting around to answering to this thread. Whew! what long day it's been....