Kris10Tackles Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 Everything was going fairly well. This bath took a little while to get to the a thick trace but I eventually got there. As I was cleaning up and checking on things I noticed my soap looked like it was melting in the mold! This photo was about 30-45min after I poured it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 Just gelling? Or separation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris10Tackles Posted July 18, 2023 Author Share Posted July 18, 2023 I’m assuming it was separating but it looked like it was melting right before my very eyes and I could see the oil moving in the mold. The only thing I did differently, or have been doing differently is adding citric acid. Some batches work and then others are a complete fail. I just made another batch without the citric acid to try out one of the Scent Memory fragrances I picked up. Soaped perfectly. I think it’s time to abandon the citric acid experiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 Citric acid can be tricky as it neutralizes the lye (as you know). At best it can make some sodium citrate in situ. At worst it can over super fat the batch making a squishy mess. did it finish ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris10Tackles Posted July 19, 2023 Author Share Posted July 19, 2023 I’ve been getting random squishy messes. Some batches were fine and others were a mess. However today’s batch was just perfect and fun. Almost the same recipe minus the citric acid and a different FO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 If you were adding the citric acid as a chelator, you may want to give sodium citrate a try. It has already been reacted so won’t change the lye concentration. I make my own sodium citrate by reacting baking soda and Citric acid. I use it on several products and on cooking when I need cheese type sauces. If you’re interested in trying to make it I will look up the proportions when I get to my studio. Or you can search Google for how to make sodium citrate. Several super cooks shared their methods. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris10Tackles Posted July 19, 2023 Author Share Posted July 19, 2023 5 hours ago, TallTayl said: If you were adding the citric acid as a chelator, you may want to give sodium citrate a try. It has already been reacted so won’t change the lye concentration. I make my own sodium citrate by reacting baking soda and Citric acid. I use it on several products and on cooking when I need cheese type sauces. If you’re interested in trying to make it I will look up the proportions when I get to my studio. Or you can search Google for how to make sodium citrate. Several super cooks shared their methods. I’ll start looking it up when I get home! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris10Tackles Posted July 19, 2023 Author Share Posted July 19, 2023 Lol a google search lead me to one of your posts from 3 years ago. On that post was link that suggested 1-3% of the oil weight. I’ll start there next time I make up batch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightLight Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 I use sodium citrate for cooking cheese sauces and cp soap works great. Much easier than using citric acid me thinks I use with sodium lactate as well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightLight Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 https://classicbells.com/soap/citrate.asp Sodium citrate or Potassium citrate in soap What does it do in soap? Sodium citrate or potassium citrate is a chemical that can be purchased and added to your soap. Citrate is also created if you add citric acid or citrus juice to your soap. Whether you make sodium citrate or potassium citrate depends on whether the lye is NaOH or KOH. It is the citrate that is helpful in your soap. Citrate reduces the amount of sticky soap scum created when lye soap is used in water by chelating (binding up) the metals that create the scum. Tests by Kevin Dunn, author of the Scientific Soapmaking book, showed citrate may not be effective against rancidity (also known as DOS, dreaded orange spots), but informal discussion amongst handcrafted soap makers suggest citrate does help to reduce rancidity as well as soap scum. Most soap makers use a much higher dosage to reduce soap scum than Dunn used in his experiments, and this may explain the difference in results. Citrate, sodium gluconate, and EDTA are all chelators, so if one does not appeal, you might consider using one of the others. Citrate and sodium gluconate are arguably more "crunchy" than EDTA, so pick one of these if a "natural" soap is your preference. How much should I use? Typical dosage for sodium citrate is 13 g to 39 g sodium citrate powder for every 1,000 g fats (1.3% to 3.9% of total fat weight). Use more for hard water, less for soft. Typical dosage for potassium citrate is 16 g to 48 g potassium citrate powder for every 1,000 g fats (1.6% to 4.8% of total fat weight). Again, use more for hard water, less for soft. A high dosage of citrate may cause a layer of tiny white citrate crystals to form on the outside of your soap as it ages. These crystals will easily wash off and are harmless, but can be prevented by using a bit less citrate. How much lye does it neutralize? None! DO NOT add additional lye if you are using citrate. Extra lye is only needed if you are using citric acid or citrus juice. How should I add it to my soap? Dissolve the citrate in about 2 times its weight of water. Stick blend that mixture into your oils. Advanced tip -- Make your own sodium citrate Sodium citrate can be made at home using citric acid and baking soda. GalaxyMLP presented this method here -- http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=55723 Be sure to read the whole thread to learn about making the sodium citrate with and without heating and about using the oven to gently dry the citrate mixture into a powder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 I just leave my home made sodium citrate liquid so it’s ready in a bottle as needed. Super convenient. I keep one batch in the fridge and one in the studio. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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