ellajoan Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 First three hour test burn. Candlescience Hazelnut Coffee at 10%, cured for 2 weeks in 464, 8 oz jar w/ 2.75 inch diameter, Premier 750 wick. Melt pool is about 1/4 inch. What do you think about wick size? The HT is so-so. For how strong the FO is OOB I was expecting a stronger HT. Is 10% FO too much? Is the mushroom too big on the wick? Thanks in advance for your help. Learning so much and having lots of fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcandleattic Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 For a first 3 hour burn, I think that wick may be too big. I would wick down at least 1-2 sizes and drop your FO down to 6-8% and see if your HT and burn are any better. I'm just afraid with as deep as the melt pool is already on the first burn, by the time it burns down toward the middle and end, that jar is going to get really hot, and have an even deeper melt pool. JMO though, this is what testing is all about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flicker Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 And I think it looks pretty ideal and is what I would aim for. I would however always start at 6% fo load. Believe it or not, less can be more in candlemaking! Also, keep in mind a jar that wide will probably only at best scent a bedroom size area. High ceilings, larger rooms etc. all play into throw. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellajoan Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 Yes, after the second test burn it's looking like a good wick size so far. HT was a bit better on second burn--not sure why that would be. I will make my next tester of these with either 6 or 8. 10% is def a waste w/ this FO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wthomas57 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Wick looks too big to me. But at the same time, your melt pool looks pretty typically to me for all soy. So... I'd just keep testing to see how it goes. If you are worried about the mushroom and wick getting too big after several burns, try an Eco. In regards to the HT. Hazelnut Coffee is a great seller for me. But its overpowering, incredbly strong! Id use less than 10% for sure. Wouldn't go above 8. If still not getting throw after a full cure, double check your process. May be adding the FO too early or too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellajoan Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 Thanks all! Adding FO at 185, but recently changed my pour pots to Pyrex glass. Wondering if the wax is cooling too soon from my presto pot? Will pay better attention to temp after moving to pour pot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wthomas57 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Not sure if its the issue or not... but I ddin't like pouring from glass. It does cool much quicker than aluminum pots for example Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flicker Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 On 6/19/2017 at 1:55 PM, ellajoan said: Yes, after the second test burn it's looking like a good wick size so far. HT was a bit better on second burn--not sure why that would be. I will make my next tester of these with either 6 or 8. 10% is def a waste w/ this FO. Scent comes from melted wax, so the melt pool plays into this. A complete melt that is about 1/4 but no more than 1/2" depth will have a better throw than one that is not complete. Also candle diameter plays into this as well. Wider candles = bigger throw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wthomas57 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Hey Ellajoan.... out of curiosity, with your wax and jars.... are you needing to remelt the top with a heat gun or something to smooth them out? The reason I ask is if that is the case..... you are essentially doing an extra burn of the candle. In other words, some FO escapes doing a remelt of the top layer. That would explain why other burns have a better HT than the first one. Its one of the reasons I do EVERYTHING in my power to avoid having to remelt the top or repour. Maybe be small difference, but hey... everything adds up. But sometimes, its simply unavoidable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellajoan Posted June 21, 2017 Author Share Posted June 21, 2017 I'm pretty sure I didn't with this one, but occasionally I will use the heat gun. That is a great piece of information to have about the heat gun! I actually think I overscented this one at 10% and it's just affecting the HT. And I do believe I am slightly overwicked, so I am wicking down a tad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshine Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 2 hours ago, Flicker said: Scent comes from melted wax, so the melt pool plays into this. A complete melt that is about 1/4 but no more than 1/2" depth will have a better throw than one that is not complete. Also candle diameter plays into this as well. Wider candles = bigger throw. I disagree with this from the picture my opinion is your over wicked, I would go down a size or 2 and also try a different series of wick and test it up against the premiers - CD Does well in 464 I have found in all my testing that melt pool does have a play but it does not define soley the throw of the candle- the whole system has a play and the wicking is a very important part - I have tiny jars that hardly have a melt pool that throw way stronger than a 1/2" melt pool In a larger jar....same scent To the OP how are you calculating 10%? I do agree less can be more but soy is harder to get throw with imo - I recommend 1.25 ounces FO per pound of wax and some scents up to 1.5 ounces 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellajoan Posted June 21, 2017 Author Share Posted June 21, 2017 Thanks Moonshine. Do you recommend 1.25 oz pp (roughly 7.75%) for ALL fragrance oils (brands, stronger ones, etc? I am finding that most oils don't need 10%, but 6% doesn't cut it for a lot of them. I am measuring the "easy way" (e.g. 1.6 oz to 16 oz for 17.6 oz total). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshine Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Ok that's the way I do it as well I always used 1.5 in the past but found heavy oils and all MW oils (which are gone now) burned better with just dropping it a touch to 1.25 and smelled just as good - I am now doing all of them at 1.25 except a few real light throwing ones I go 1.5 and I don't notice a difference in throw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellajoan Posted June 22, 2017 Author Share Posted June 22, 2017 Ok, I wicked this baby down to a Premier 735 and did another 4 hourtest burn (swapped out the old 750) and it's got a MUCH better HT and less deep meltpool, and w/ a good amount of hangup on the sides. Is it valid to change the wick out 1/3 of the way through a test burn? I put it on my candlewarmer, remelted the whole thing, yanked out the old wick. Then let it solidifiy, used a sharp tool to make a wick crater, added the 735, sealed it w/ my heat gun. Does anyone else do this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshine Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 As I suspected - too much wick glad your seeing better throw now ? I have never swapped wicks like that so I can't answer that question for you- I usually just burn it down and make a new one 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 I would burn this one a bit more to be certain it works well through as far as it will burn. It will tip over and self-extinguish long before the bottom. Then make a new one with that wick (if it works) and start from the beginning to be sure. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wthomas57 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 1 hour ago, ellajoan said: Ok, I wicked this baby down to a Premier 735 and did another 4 hourtest burn (swapped out the old 750) and it's got a MUCH better HT and less deep meltpool, and w/ a good amount of hangup on the sides. Is it valid to change the wick out 1/3 of the way through a test burn? I put it on my candlewarmer, remelted the whole thing, yanked out the old wick. Then let it solidifiy, used a sharp tool to make a wick crater, added the 735, sealed it w/ my heat gun. Does anyone else do this? I do something similar (in larger jars). Small ones, I just burn all the way. But the issue with your method is that you are warming the whole thing which is just releasing more and more of the FO. So each time you are losing a bit more HT making it harder to compare apples to apples (at least as far as HT goes). However, I do something similar where if I notice I am way off on the wick and its obvious, I will pull it. But Ill just let it harden, poke a hole and insert a new one. So while it did go throughn a burn cycle already, at least its not going through another round of it by warming all the wax again. (Unless, you not warming it that much and I am assuming incorrectly.) But yes, overall I do something similar and think its a good way to test without as much waste. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wthomas57 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 4 hours ago, ellajoan said: Thanks Moonshine. Do you recommend 1.25 oz pp (roughly 7.75%) for ALL fragrance oils (brands, stronger ones, etc? I am finding that most oils don't need 10%, but 6% doesn't cut it for a lot of them. I am measuring the "easy way" (e.g. 1.6 oz to 16 oz for 17.6 oz total). I used to do it that way , but was convinced by several others that it wasn't the "best" way. So, I do the other method which is: Take the total finish weight, let's say 16oz. And, then if I want 8% FO take 16*.08 which gives me the part of the total that shouild be FO, the rest is wax. In other words Wax - 14.7, FO - 1.3 for a Total of 16. Honestly, the difference is pretty small. I just find it easier to use this method for batch sizing. I know how much total fill I need for each candle or batch. So its easy to just figure out what part of that should be FO. the other method its not quite as simple as you kind of have to start with a close educated guess. That being said, again, both results are close. I am not really sure what wax manufactures intend for us to do. Its never been clear. They all just say 6% max load or 10% max load. they never clarify what they mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellajoan Posted June 22, 2017 Author Share Posted June 22, 2017 You are all absolutely fantastic and helpful. I am spending hours on these boards over the last few months (lurked a while before I joined) and learning SO much. I appreciate your opinions, expertise, and time! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Glad to read your throw is improved with a smaller wick. It happened to me just this week with two different blends. When slightly underwicked the soy candle threw as strongly as a wax melt. I wicked up a size to see what would happen - if it would achieve a nice melt pool. As soon as it reached a melt pool that others on this board and Facebook desire, the throw was diminished to nothing. Zero. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obsessed Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 11 hours ago, TallTayl said: Glad to read your throw is improved with a smaller wick. It happened to me just this week with two different blends. When slightly underwicked the soy candle threw as strongly as a wax melt. I wicked up a size to see what would happen - if it would achieve a nice melt pool. As soon as it reached a melt pool that others on this board and Facebook desire, the throw was diminished to nothing. Zero. TT when you underwicked , did you end up with hangup on the sides? I am testing some Libby Capstan jars ( like a large squat votive) and am happy with the burn , yet the hangup is really annoying me. If I go up in wick , it will be too much. Is it possible to get no hangup and small flame?! LOL I don't know how to shrink my photos to put on here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcandleattic Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 36 minutes ago, obsessed said: TT when you underwicked , did you end up with hangup on the sides? I am testing some Libby Capstan jars ( like a large squat votive) and am happy with the burn , yet the hangup is really annoying me. If I go up in wick , it will be too much. Is it possible to get no hangup and small flame?! LOL I don't know how to shrink my photos to put on here! How many burns have you done that you still have hangup? It's not uncommon to not reach a fmp for up to 2-3 burns before the fmp will warm the jar enough to catch up and melt the hangup off the sides of the jar. On my 16oz jars I do not reach fmp until the end of the second 4 hour burn or the middle of the 3rd 4 hour burn. (Depending on the scent, and other factors) before that, there is still some hangup on the jars, but as the candle burns down, it heats up the jar enough to melt the hangup, but doesn't get too hot to the touch on the outside of the jar. Hope this makes sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 3 hours ago, obsessed said: TT when you underwicked , did you end up with hangup on the sides? I am testing some Libby Capstan jars ( like a large squat votive) and am happy with the burn , yet the hangup is really annoying me. If I go up in wick , it will be too much. Is it possible to get no hangup and small flame?! LOL I don't know how to shrink my photos to put on here! Yes I did. Until at least the middle of the candle. I should try an in between Wick. I am just out of time for the time being. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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