Detto Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Hello, I have been researching for a little while now, and I just placed my first order. After I placed my order I decided I would be using a different jar because of cost and availability. I was going to use the 8oz square mason jars but after looking at cost. I can get the 8oz quilted jars for a lot less at Walmart with no shipping. I ordered GB 464 wax with CD-10 and 12 wicks because I read most said to start with those for the square jars. Since I am using a smaller diameter I am guessing i need to go smaller. If I order CD wicks samples from different sites are they going to be the same wicks so after testing I can order them from where ever I am going to order for the next order? I have also notice the CD wicks on Amazon are not a 6 inch, they are 5 inch. Also, I was wondering if extra wax can be used for melts/tarts with 464? I don't know if my math is correct or not but if i do 1 lb of wax and 1 ounce of FO I do not think I will be able to get 3 - 8oz candles, I think I might be able to get 2- 8oz jars and 1- 4oz jar but i'm not sure. Thanks, Detto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdcharm Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 What is the diameter of the jars you'll be getting? For me, square jars are a bit tricky due to the corners. As to your question about the melts ... I'm not a tart/melt maker, but those do not use a container wax, which GW464 happens to be, so that won't work by itself. Regarding your thinking about the math ... with just a little more math, you can figure out your scent amount for three 8-oz. candles. But, I've got to go make dinner, so I'll either have to come back or someone who is good at quickly explaining the math for you may chime in! (In other words ... you will be melting enough wax to fill three 8-oz. candles, and add the proper amount of scent for that amount ... you will not be limited to melting wax in full pounds in order to figure out your scent amount.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdcharm Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 5 hours ago, Detto said: Also, I was wondering if extra wax can be used for melts/tarts with 464? I don't know if my math is correct or not but if i do 1 lb of wax and 1 ounce of FO I do not think I will be able to get 3 - 8oz candles, I think I might be able to get 2- 8oz jars and 1- 4oz jar but i'm not sure. Okay, so for GW464, you can use 7-9% scent per pound ... that's just a little over an ounce per pound of wax. If you're going to need 1.5 pounds of wax for three candles, you can safely add 1.5 ounce of scent. If you haven't made candles before, I would start off making one for the first round, rather than three at once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detto Posted February 7, 2017 Author Share Posted February 7, 2017 Thanks for the help. I am going to make more than 1 candle so I can test the wicks. It will be faster if I make a batch with the different wicks because of the 2 week curing time. I am confused on the math now. I will be using the Kerr 8oz quilted jelly jars. I thought even though it was an 8oz jar it wouldn't filled all the way to the top. I was figuring around 6.5 -7 oz. in the jar. I got that from a post I read about measure with water then multiply by .8 . Does anyone know about the wicks? Or should I only order from one place on wicks? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sponiebr Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 2 hours ago, Detto said: Thanks for the help. I am going to make more than 1 candle so I can test the wicks. It will be faster if I make a batch with the different wicks because of the 2 week curing time. I am confused on the math now. I will be using the Kerr 8oz quilted jelly jars. I thought even though it was an 8oz jar it wouldn't filled all the way to the top. I was figuring around 6.5 -7 oz. in the jar. I got that from a post I read about measure with water then multiply by .8 . Does anyone know about the wicks? Or should I only order from one place on wicks? Hi. I'm Sponie. I am a purveyor of REALLY AMAZINGLY BAD ideas. (I'm just say'n: caveat emptor.) Also I don't make candles. I make soap which is really exactly the same thing as candles only I use caustic chemicals and water to burn stuff instead of being all "traditional" and using fire... Again... "buyer beware". I was thinking to myself "How does one think they can get 24 oz out of 16?" oh yeah... I need to order a pound of feathers. Speaking of a pound of feather... That's it! You want to be able to convert physical weight to physical dimensions. Like I said, I'm no chandler but I have the same issue with making soap because well, a pound of soy or palm based wax does NOT fit into an 16 ounce jar. So the short answer to how I do it is multiply volume (I use ounces for determining my batch volume but grams for actually weighing it out, meh... It works) by .43 to get my oil weight e.g. I have a mold that is 10" L x 2"W x 5"H= 10x2= 20x5 =100 cubic inches. So now I need to know how many ounces of fat I need to use to fill it so, 100*.43 = 43 ounces of fat. Cool huh? It totally is cool FOR SOAPERS. .43 won't work for you... (I just realized this.) Soaping has water and all kinds of other crap in it. Damn... OK! Don't panic! Go get a towel... We're GONNA get through this! So you need to weigh a block of your wax. Figure out what it weighs all by itself. Then you'll measure the block of wax and divide the weight of the wax by the volume of the wax to find the % to use to find the ratio of volume to weight... So let's say your block o'waxy wax was 1 pound and it measured 2"x5x2=20 c.i. then your volume per pound would be at 16/20= .8 or 80%. According to that calculation a 3" round jar 5" tall would take 3/2=1.5 (r) 1.5x1.5=2.25 (r squared) 2.25 x 3.1416 x 5"tall = 35.343 cubic inches at 80% would be 28.27 ounces of wax needed or roughly 28 and 1/4 ounce of wax. So to recap: weigh the stuff out and then measure the wax to determine the volume in inches. Then divide the weight by the volume to get a % number to determine how much wax you need for a given volume. I'm probably as clear as mud but I hope you found SOME help in there... I'm not sure if I'm brilliant or just plain nuts but I'm leaning towards square watermelons. Cheers, Sponiebr: the "Other nut" allergy and Executor of Bad Ideas and Sundry Services. (Oh yeah... I'm a smart ass too! ) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sponiebr Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Oh yeah... there's this thing too... https://candletech.com/candle-making/tips-and-tricks/handy-calculators/calculate-wax-weight-container-candle/?fst_num=0&snd_num=16&ans_num=13.76 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 lol, lol.... you got that right Sponey......You are very clear as a big ole wheelbarrow of mud.......You lost me when you started talking feathers. If she was a little confusted starting out, I wonder what she thinks now after your post unless she's some type of scientist..... But that's ok, I still love ya....not all of us are mad creators as you....lol...you tried... Detto, your on the right track. And yes you are correct that the weight of the jars you should measure out like you did and I actually do with filling the container with water just to see how much that jar will take. I don't know about the 8% though. Sponey can probably help you here with that.....When I'm doing multiple jars I usually round up or down depending to the nearest ounce and I always have left over wax that I save in little dixie cups and save for top offs (repours) for my next batch of candles I make. And lots of times I use this left over scented wax for my melter too. 464 is not really good for making melts to be sold as it is a soft wax. As far as where to get wicks, you should stick with one company. Even though the same style wick can be bought at just about every candle company out there, the coatings of wax on suppliers of wicks can vary and possibly make you have to use a different size wick (though not really to often) but it has happened to me on a few occassions. I don't know what percentage of oil you are using for 464, but I use 6%....sometimes I will tweak it a bit and go to 7%, but generally 6%. We all have our own system and you will get all different answers but over time you will find what works best for you. 464 holds up to 10%. I have never even tried that percentage. Trappeur 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdcharm Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Interesting, educational, and amusing thread all of you! I would just like to add that similar with what Trappeur has shared -- that it's better to melt/scent more than you may need -- always better than running short! You can figure out what to do with the excess (if any) later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdcharm Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 I would just like to add ... I'd probably melt 22.5 ounces of wax and use 1.75 ounces of scent, which would put it at about 8% scent, I think that's right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detto Posted February 8, 2017 Author Share Posted February 8, 2017 Thanks for the replies. I actually do understand sponies math. The only problem I run into is the wax I am using is not in a block(of course not) it is in flake form. The website calculations say that if I put 7 oz water in the jar, I will need 6.02 oz of wax. I did find out that water density is 8.3 lbs per gallon and 464 wax is 7.6 lbs per gallon. Am I wrong to think that like feathers it has a lower density so it takes up more space with the same weight. That is why it takes less wax than water? I know I am making this more complicated than it needs to be. Trappeur, I am going to try to stick to the 6% per pound right now until i can get everything else correct. I want to keep the variables down for messing up. Before I ordered my FOs I made sure they work in the 464 so I know the problem is me and not the FO. I don't exactly under the repours part. You put the wax in a dixie cup and just put it in the double boiler to heat it back up to top off candles that have imperfections? I guess I will have to learn from trial and error. Birdcharm, Thanks for the help with the ratios but since I am starting off I am trying to stay with the 1lb wax to 1 oz of FO. Just to make sure I get everything else correct. I know I have extra and that is fine for now. I do appreciate the measurement. I will have to keep that in mind once I get everything else right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sponiebr Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 (edited) On 2/7/2017 at 11:51 PM, Detto said: Thanks for the replies. I actually do understand sponies math. The only problem I run into is the wax I am using is not in a block(of course not) it is in flake form. The website calculations say that if I put 7 oz water in the jar, I will need 6.02 oz of wax. I did find out that water density is 8.3 lbs per gallon and 464 wax is 7.6 lbs per gallon. Am I wrong to think that like feathers it has a lower density so it takes up more space with the same weight. That is why it takes less wax than water? I know I am making this more complicated than it needs to be. Trappeur, I am going to try to stick to the 6% per pound right now until i can get everything else correct. I want to keep the variables down for messing up. Before I ordered my FOs I made sure they work in the 464 so I know the problem is me and not the FO. I don't exactly under the repours part. You put the wax in a dixie cup and just put it in the double boiler to heat it back up to top off candles that have imperfections? I guess I will have to learn from trial and error. Birdcharm, Thanks for the help with the ratios but since I am starting off I am trying to stay with the 1lb wax to 1 oz of FO. Just to make sure I get everything else correct. I know I have extra and that is fine for now. I do appreciate the measurement. I will have to keep that in mind once I get everything else right. Yep! Wax floats on water *usually*, well the waxes you use in candles float. Uhmm... So this is just *me* and my personally warped sense of thinking, but I like to know without a doubt what I'm using. If it were me, I would cast a small block of the wax into a little brick not too small, but also not huge*, and at some sort of fixed size that could be measured. THEN you can find out what the weight by volume is on the wax. It might not seem like that big a deal, but if you need to know how much flammable fragrance to add it might be kind of important information. I'm not a chandler though so... I would listen to the chandlers first over anything I post about candle making. *Make it small enough so that you could easily grate/chop it back up into easier to melt bits when you're done. YMWV, Sponiebr OH and casting the little brick will clue you in on shrinking and sinkholes and a plethora of other evils that lie in the shadows between the flakes... <----They're there... o.O Edited February 9, 2017 by Sponiebr Shrinking info 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdcharm Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Sponiebr ... all of this exactness has my head spinning!! I've got to say, I'm disappointed in you! You forgot to mention that the amount of scent, the wick, tab, and adhesive are going to displace some of the liquid wax volume. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 On 2/7/2017 at 11:51 PM, Detto said: Trappeur, I am going to try to stick to the 6% per pound right now until i can get everything else correct. I want to keep the variables down for messing up. Before I ordered my FOs I made sure they work in the 464 so I know the problem is me and not the FO. I don't exactly under the repours part. You put the wax in a dixie cup and just put it in the double boiler to heat it back up to top off candles that have imperfections? I guess I will have to learn from trial and error. When I save my left over wax in the dixie cups, I heat the wax up in the microwave and then pour another very thin layer on top of my candle. Don't put it in a double boiler. Trappeur 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detto Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 22 hours ago, Sponiebr said: If it were me, I would cast a small block of the wax into a little brick not too small, but also not huge*, and at some sort of fixed size that could be measured. I will do this soon. I will wait to do it for when I get the urge to do something while my candles cure. 4 hours ago, birdcharm said: Sponiebr ... all of this exactness has my head spinning!! I've got to say, I'm disappointed in you! You forgot to mention that the amount of scent, the wick, tab, and adhesive are going to displace some of the liquid wax volume. I didn't take that in to account when I just made my first batch. Well i did take in to account the FO but not the others. I melted 1 lb of wax and I ended up with 2-8 oz and 2-4 oz jars. I can not thank yall enough for the help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detto Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Trappeur said: When I save my left over wax in the dixie cups, I heat the wax up in the microwave and then pour another very thin layer on top of my candle. Don't put it in a double boiler. Trappeur ah ok I will keep this in mind when I start making more batches. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sponiebr Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 6 hours ago, birdcharm said: Sponiebr ... all of this exactness has my head spinning!! I've got to say, I'm disappointed in you! You forgot to mention that the amount of scent, the wick, tab, and adhesive are going to displace some of the liquid wax volume. Noooope... I DID take it into account, (see post below). 'Sides wicks and FO's and oxides, and blah blah blah... has nothing to do with the specific gravity of the wax. Frankly I thought all y'all would have been happy to see that I wrote a reply that wasn't 13 pages long.-- Mea Culpa. I won't let that happen again... On 2/7/2017 at 11:42 AM, birdcharm said: Interesting, educational, and amusing thread all of you! I would just like to add that similar with what Trappeur has shared -- that it's better to melt/scent more than you may need -- always better than running short! You can figure out what to do with the excess (if any) later. Ok-I-luv-ya-buh-bye! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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