Salt bar question...

[KrazeKelly]

I have made salt bars several times but I want to make a facial bar with salt that doesn't contain coconut oil. So there's my dilemma! I normally do 80% coconut oil and salt in my salt bars so how do I get some lather without coconut oil?? Do I add less salt?? I am trying to keep my oils and butters low on the comedogenic scale and that's the reason I don't want any coconut oil. 

 

Also, I have some Dead Sea clay and kelp powder I want to use in this soap. Do you think those plus the salt will be overkill or too drying?? 

 

Kelly

[Sponiebr]

14 minutes ago, KrazeKelly said:

I have made salt bars several times but I want to make a facial bar with salt that doesn't contain coconut oil. So there's my dilemma! I normally do 80% coconut oil and salt in my salt bars so how do I get some lather without coconut oil?? Do I add less salt?? I am trying to keep my oils and butters low on the comedogenic scale and that's the reason I don't want any coconut oil. 

 

Also, I have some Dead Sea clay and kelp powder I want to use in this soap. Do you think those plus the salt will be overkill or too drying?? 

 

Kelly

 

CO oil soap comedogenic? I've heard of CO soaps being severely drying but I've never heard of it causing zits. My CO soaps are superfatted to 20% and they are still way to drying for my taste.  But to answer your question, I'd think some castor, would give you some more lather. I'm finding that if it gives a great lather, it's drying as all get out.  

 

I'm not real familiar with salt bars, but I'm trying to get familiar with them REAL quick because I want to make some pine tar peppermint salt bars... (BUHAHAHAHAHAAH!!! It's ALIVE!!!) So, as I understand salt bars, again this is purely theory for me, salt kills lather. What would you replace your CO with, sunflower? Rice bran oil!? (That might work well.) I don't know, so I defer to those with more wisdom in affairs of the suds.

 

YM*W*V! 

 

Slainte, 

 

Sponie

 

 

[KrazeKelly]

48 minutes ago, Sponiebr said:

 

CO oil soap comedogenic? I've heard of CO soaps being severely drying but I've never heard of it causing zits. My CO soaps are superfatted to 20% and they are still way to drying for my taste.  But to answer your question, I'd think some castor, would give you some more lather. I'm finding that if it gives a great lather, it's drying as all get out.  

 

I'm not real familiar with salt bars, but I'm trying to get familiar with them REAL quick because I want to make some pine tar peppermint salt bars... (BUHAHAHAHAHAAH!!! It's ALIVE!!!) So, as I understand salt bars, again this is purely theory for me, salt kills lather. What would you replace your CO with, sunflower? Rice bran oil!? (That might work well.) I don't know, so I defer to those with more wisdom in affairs of the suds.

 

YM*W*V! 

 

Slainte, 

 

Sponie

 

 

 

Hahaha! Good luck with the pine tar peppermint salt bars!! Thats adventurous!! I have only made Pine Tar bars once and it moves pretty quick when you add the pine tar. So adding salt could be tricky. 

 

I do 20% super fat in my salt bars also and use 5% castor oil.  What I've read is that coconut oil can clog the pores. But there are two types of coconut oil. One is 4 on the comedogenic scale and the other is 0. I dont know how to know which is which. The one that is high is from the meat or kernels, and the other one is from the drupe. Whatever that is!! ? I do have sunflower and rice bran oil to use and also mango and shea butter. Maybe avocado too. 

 

Kelly

[Sponiebr]

4 minutes ago, KrazeKelly said:

 

Hahaha! Good luck with the pine tar peppermint salt bars!! Thats adventurous!! I have only made Pine Tar bars once and it moves pretty quick when you add the pine tar. So adding salt could be tricky. 

 

I do 20% super fat in my salt bars also and use 5% castor oil.  What I've read is that coconut oil can clog the pores. But there are two types of coconut oil. One is 4 on the comedogenic scale and the other is 0. I dont know how to know which is which. The one that is high is from the meat or kernels, and the other one is from the drupe. Whatever that is!! ? I do have sunflower and rice bran oil to use and also mango and shea butter. Maybe avocado too. 

 

Kelly

Yeah PT soap with the peppermint is a regular PITA that I make, I thought maybe the salt might be interesting. ( I so HATE how FAST that stuff moves in CP, but I REALLY don't like the thought of HP'ing it. Meh pine tar soap is what it is.) 

 

I know that if I use coconut oil in, let's say, a beard oil it creates problems and basically turns me into "yuck" incarnate. I've only had the zitsapalooza happen when I use it exclusively as an moisturizing oil to just basically smear on my face but it's never been a problem for me in soap --even with a 20% lye discount. Have you had problems with this issue using CO in your soap? I can't see using a clay in a soap would have any absorptive effect at all because the clay is already soaked with fat or at least with soap. Now it might be, I dunno, "exfoliating"? Even if the clay was prehydrated with a portion of the recipe's water I can't see how that would work.   

 

As I understand it the whole super fat issue is that soap is soap and it clean's at 100% soaper power all the time. This can't be changed at all, and there's no special mixing or add this fat or that thing at trace or before trace that can change the fact that soap kills fats. So to make a soap more mild we super fat it, meaning that we give it some incorporated free fats to work on so it doesn't use 100% of it's soaper power on our skin fats. Basically we decrease the soap's ability to cleanse us, by making the soap bar cleanse itself. (If that makes any sense?) So, what I've been told is that soap can not be moisturizing or conditioning, and they have been vehemently adamant about this concept. This bugs the HELL outta me because I can FEEL the oil on the shower floor as I wash with a really high superfatted soap. I had a 100% pure OO Castile that I made with a 20% SF which greased up the shower floor REAL nice , (NO LATHER at all), but interestingly it DIDN'T grease me up. Though admittedly I'm SO confused, what I'm being told seems to actually occur in practice. 

 

Hopefully someone with more experience with this will chime in on this but I think that these comedonal ratings apply only to cosmetics etc.. and not to soap. 

 

I've been thinking a LOT about this whole comedogenic issue lately. I haven't seen a list yet here on this forum with the comedogeic ratings of various fats, have you? If not that might be a useful thing I could or someone could put together especially for the bath, beauty, and beyond types. 

 

Wow... This place is INTERESTING! 

Cheers! 

 

Sponie

[Chefmom]

I know I've read on facebook groups when people talk about the comedogenic value of oils, its easy to get confused because those charts are based on the oils as is...not saponified oils.  As far as I know there is no chart that discussed the comedogenic value of saponified fats etc.

 

I make a soap that is a regular soap recipe with just a bit of salt added, just enough to change the texture of the lather, but it doesn't have the super high 85-100% coconut oil.  It's my daughters favorite face soap.  I made a 120% coconut soap and I'm in the short line of people who really really don't like that soap.  I only used it on my hands and they felt like I had put them in straight bleach they were so dry and tight, yet after rinsing the lather off (in my well water it was weak lather as well) my hands felt like they were coated in grease.  I couldn't even open the door to the bathroom, I had to wrap a towel around it to get a good grip.  I make other 20% superfatted soaps, so I know it wasn't the high superfat. 

 

Your other option is hot process, so you can control the superfat amount of the soap.  Make a 80-85% coconut, 5% castor and then 10-15% favorite liquid oil soap.  After cooking add the 20% superfat of the oil of choice, maybe something like shea butter and then 50% salt.  This is the way that I make salt bars.  You have to work quick quick and you have to hover to know when to cut the bars if using a loaf mold.  Or you can hurry and scoop into individual molds, but with hot process you can have that bit of control over superfat choices. 

[KrazeKelly]

2 hours ago, Chefmom said:

I know I've read on facebook groups when people talk about the comedogenic value of oils, its easy to get confused because those charts are based on the oils as is...not saponified oils.  As far as I know there is no chart that discussed the comedogenic value of saponified fats etc.

 

I make a soap that is a regular soap recipe with just a bit of salt added, just enough to change the texture of the lather, but it doesn't have the super high 85-100% coconut oil.  It's my daughters favorite face soap.  I made a 120% coconut soap and I'm in the short line of people who really really don't like that soap.  I only used it on my hands and they felt like I had put them in straight bleach they were so dry and tight, yet after rinsing the lather off (in my well water it was weak lather as well) my hands felt like they were coated in grease.  I couldn't even open the door to the bathroom, I had to wrap a towel around it to get a good grip.  I make other 20% superfatted soaps, so I know it wasn't the high superfat. 

 

Your other option is hot process, so you can control the superfat amount of the soap.  Make a 80-85% coconut, 5% castor and then 10-15% favorite liquid oil soap.  After cooking add the 20% superfat of the oil of choice, maybe something like shea butter and then 50% salt.  This is the way that I make salt bars.  You have to work quick quick and you have to hover to know when to cut the bars if using a loaf mold.  Or you can hurry and scoop into individual molds, but with hot process you can have that bit of control over superfat choices. 

 

Great info!! Thank you!!  I think I may try both methods and see which I like better. One with less salt and one hot processed. 

 

Thank y'all for helping me. While I know a lot a bout soap, I don't understand some of the chemistry of it. ?

 

Kelly

[Candybee]

You can take any favorite soap recipe and make it a brine or 'soleseife' soap. Just incorporate salt into your liquid. There are salt bars and salt soaps. Two different soaps entirely. But if you make a brine soap you also need to let it cure for a long time like you do with salt bars. Here's a link to the discussion thread about brine soaps:

 

[KrazeKelly]

2 hours ago, Candybee said:

You can take any favorite soap recipe and make it a brine or 'soleseife' soap. Just incorporate salt into your liquid. There are salt bars and salt soaps. Two different soaps entirely. But if you make a brine soap you also need to let it cure for a long time like you do with salt bars. Here's a link to the discussion thread about brine soaps:

 

 

Thank you Candybee!! 

[Fine]

You can use any recipe, with brine instead of water.

You don't have to change anything but the water.

Same oils, same SF, same additives but, never go higher than 20% brine wich is 20% salt of water (not % of oils)

I've made several Brine-soaps from 5% to 20% salt, I do prefer the 5% for my very sensitive skin though.

 

[Sponiebr]

7 hours ago, Candybee said:

You can take any favorite soap recipe and make it a brine or 'soleseife' soap. Just incorporate salt into your liquid. There are salt bars and salt soaps. Two different soaps entirely. But if you make a brine soap you also need to let it cure for a long time like you do with salt bars. Here's a link to the discussion thread about brine soaps:

 

Don't brine soaps tend to "squeeze" or weep out the glycerin? 

[Jcandleattic]

2 hours ago, Sponiebr said:

Don't brine soaps tend to "squeeze" or weep out the glycerin? 

I've never had that happen to mine. I use a 15% salt solution in my Brine soaps. 

[Chefmom]

I have never had weeping in my brine soaps.  However, in my "just a bit of salt" and my salt bars, I usually have some weeping (feels like saline to me) for a day or two after cutting the bars.  But it has always disappeared quickly. 

[Fine]

5 hours ago, Chefmom said:

I have never had weeping in my brine soaps.  However, in my "just a bit of salt" and my salt bars, I usually have some weeping (feels like saline to me) for a day or two after cutting the bars.  But it has always disappeared quickly. 

 

Same here.

[Sponiebr]

On 8/23/2016 at 3:20 PM, Fine said:

 

Same here.

I did a little more background fact checking an it appears that the "weepness" in brine soaps comes from HP. 

[Fine]

2 hours ago, Sponiebr said:

I did a little more background fact checking an it appears that the "weepness" in brine soaps comes from HP. 

 

Mine comes from CP,

[Sponiebr]

14 hours ago, Fine said:

 

Mine comes from CP,

Sorry, I meant the glycerin weeping.

 

[Fine]

My belief is that the weeping is salt from the soap  absorbing water from soap and surroundings.

I believe so, cause the stronger I make the brine, the wetter the soap gets.

If I put a fan on, it dissapears.

The liquid feels more like salt water than glycerin.

The wet disappear in a few weeks, where glycerin normally remain on the soap as beads.

[iansmommaya]

 

 

This is my observation, too.