So Frustrated...464 - 415 - Ecosoya Xcel

[back2basics]

Dear Friends,

 

I know some scents are not made for a specific blend of soy wax and all but I am so frustrated.

 

I used EcoSoya Xcel and 464 in Flaming Candle Watermelon Lemonade, Sweet Strawberry, and Cinnaberries. For each combination I used 1 oz pp and even went up to 8%.  I added the frag oil at 175. I did use a scale to weigh my oil and wax.

 

I did cure 2 weeks. I used 8 oz jj. For the 464 wax I used Premier 765 wicks. For XCel I used Eco 10 and for 415 I used 51-32-18 cottons.

 

I did get a decent melt pool on all but not much throw. I understand an 8 oz jj will not scent a large area because of the diameter, but I do expect to smell something in a small room.

 

I used to use EZSoy which is close to 415 from what I read. I used CD 12 wicks which in most applications for me is too large but CD 10 is too small.  I'll be honest Bittercreek's shipping is a little high for me. I can pick up the 464, or EcoSoya XCel locally and even C3.

 

Can someone please help me out, please??? I will do my own testing but I just need a general direction to go in. What could I be doing wrong. Please don't be afraid of offending me. I need all the help and support that you could offer.  Thank you in advance. :-)

 

 

[Guest OldGlory]

First let me say we've all been where you are right now. There are so many interchangeable parts - wax, wicks, fragrance oil, testing conditions, and finally our own individual sense of smell. Getting the right combination is the trick.

I would like to suggest that you purchase an FO that is proven in your wax. Read thru the fragrance discussions to see who's had success with your wax and a few specific FOs, and buy those FOs. If it worked for others in your wax, then it should work for you, right? If it doesn't work for you, then you need to switch around the other variables.

The hardest aspect to get used to is your own ability to detect/smell a fragrance. I would also suggest that you find a few smart and willing friends to test your candle for you and report back to you the fragrance throw. Have them all use a bedroom, test it at 2 hours, 3 hours, and 4 hours, then put the candle out. A few days later, the same thing.

If you haven't already, read all the back threads in the Veg. Wax section and the Frag. discussion section. There's a wealth of information stored there for exactly this purpose.

Learning to make a great candle is an expensive and time consuming endeavor. With all the testing involved, it could take you easily 6-12 months of steady and regular testing, and could easily cost you $500-$1000 or more. Take good notes along the way so you can review them and avoid making the same mistake twice. And remember that this is all part of the journey.

 

[back2basics]

Thanks for your words of wisdom Old Glory. It does mean a lot to have someone else just "listen" or in this case read and understand where you are coming from. I have made candles on and off for years but never have found a combination that I was quite happy with. I appreciate your input very much.

 

So far from what I am reading and I have talked to Aztec, Flaming Candle, RE/AH, and Candle Science all recommend 464 wax. I do have some of that in stock so I will pull my stash out here in a bit and go to work.

 

I don't think I will wick the candle right away but let it cure and then take a skewer and poke a hole in the wax.

 

Old Glory - From what Flaming Candle says and CS - add the fragrance oil at 185 ---I was adding it at 175 --do you think that is why I have had so much trouble with every wax that I have worked with?

 

Thanks in advance.

[kandlekrazy]

I'm not familiar with 464, but I did test 415 once upon a time.  I actually tested about 8 different waxes and now looking back I feel that was a mistake.

The advice I can give you is to pick a wax that you can get close to your home and then work with it until you get it to work.  If you go through the the

threads here you will find that someone, if not several have luck with every soy wax out there.  If they can do it, so can you.  It's frustrating, but you're probably

adding to your frustration by having so many variables.  Also I would check to see what type of wick is most popular with the wax you decide on.  After that

it should start to come together for you.  I've had awesome luck with flaming candle @ 6% in C3 for melts.  I've only made a couple of their scents into

candles so far, but plan on testing more this week.  CS fo's that are rated 3 are typically very good in my wax as well.  Same for AH/RE and General Wax,

mostly good luck with just a couple I didn't like or didn't throw well for me.

[Guest OldGlory]

1 hour ago, back2basics said:

Thanks for your words of wisdom Old Glory. It does mean a lot to have someone else just "listen" or in this case read and understand where you are coming from. I have made candles on and off for years but never have found a combination that I was quite happy with. I appreciate your input very much.

 

So far from what I am reading and I have talked to Aztec, Flaming Candle, RE/AH, and Candle Science all recommend 464 wax. I do have some of that in stock so I will pull my stash out here in a bit and go to work.

 

I don't think I will wick the candle right away but let it cure and then take a skewer and poke a hole in the wax.

 

Old Glory - From what Flaming Candle says and CS - add the fragrance oil at 185 ---I was adding it at 175 --do you think that is why I have had so much trouble with every wax that I have worked with?

 

Thanks in advance.

Strictly my opinion - No, I don't think that is why you've had trouble, but even after 15 years of working with a variety of soy waxes, I can learn new things too. So, you should try it their way and either prove or debunk that information. A blind side by side comparison by an indifferent 3rd party will let you know if it's true. Give them one candle to try week one, the other to try the following week, and ask them to burn them in the same spot for the same amount of time and report back to you which one is the strongest.

I have been using 464 for many years and I find it to be a very good wax. It isn't perfect, but neither are many other waxes. You just have to learn how to work with it. And I find that Premier wicks work best for me in this wax. (Aztec carries them)

I buy a lot from Aztec, and can suggest a few powerful FOs that work in 464 for me: Sweet Potato & Brown Sugar, Blackberry Sage, Apple Jack, Lovespell, and Mango Papaya. If you find that they don't throw for you in 464 you need to change some other things.

[back2basics]

Old Glory - thank you so much.... I do have sweet potato and brown sugar in from Aztec. Yay!  I will give it a try and see what happens. You don't know how very much I appreciate your help and your willingness to share.

 

Where do you live and do you find that you have had trouble shipping 464? That is the only thing that concerns me about that wax. I did have a few candles "grow" on me in the past and bury the wick. Not really sure what causes that but it's kinda awkward when that happens,.

[back2basics]

kandlekrazy - You are right as well....I'm probably making myself more crazy with all the variety. I guess I was just hoping that out of one of my potions something would work. LOL Thank you so much for helping and encouraging me. It really does mean so much. :-)

 

[Guest OldGlory]

1 hour ago, back2basics said:

Old Glory - thank you so much.... I do have sweet potato and brown sugar in from Aztec. Yay!  I will give it a try and see what happens. You don't know how very much I appreciate your help and your willingness to share.

 

Where do you live and do you find that you have had trouble shipping 464? That is the only thing that concerns me about that wax. I did have a few candles "grow" on me in the past and bury the wick. Not really sure what causes that but it's kinda awkward when that happens,.

Do you mean shipping the wax to me, or me shipping candles to customers? I live close to Knoxville and I just drive to Aztec to pick up my wax. I would cry if I had to pay shipping. I placed an order today that included 2 cases of wax and if I had chosen to have it shipped - just 30 miles - it would have cost me over $100 in shipping charges. It costs me about $5 in gas to pick it up.

I will not ship soy candles June-mid September. I've had a few liquify before reaching the customer, and some others arrive messy.

464 will grow - not sure of all the circumstances allowing that to happen. I think I've had a few that were a few years old that expanded.

[GoldieMN]

I've calculated shipping of 50 lbs. 464 wax from a number of companies and find that Nature's Garden (Ohio) is the cheapest, for me, at $20.87.  NG is in another postal zone, 600 miles away from me.  Another company in my state and 160 miles away, is about the same, $21.00. So not sure how USPS or UPS comes up with their rates.  If I am ordering oils from a company that sells 464, I double check to see how much shipping will be if I add a box of wax to the order.  Sometimes that works out to be a better deal.  

Goldie

[back2basics]

Old Glory- you answered all of my questions about shipping during the summer and the wax "growing" so to speak. Your post was very thorough.

 

GoldieMN - thank you for sharing your shipping rate information. :-)

 

[moonshine]

when I used 464 I used CD and CDN wicks- didn't know about premiers then and I also played with palm steric or beeswax  to help with the blooming of the wax and make it a little harder - USA would probably be a better choice but I didn't know about it until I switched to 415

With the 415 the same wicks worked the best for me 

I played briefly with C3 and I don't remember what wicks I used I just remember all the bubbles I got and gave up to quickly and Xcel I have not made candles with- only melts

if your able to pick up 464 or C3 I would go with one of those and keep working with it until you get the results your happy with - shipping is a killer but I have no local place to buy and 415 once I figured it out worked the best for me 

I did love 464 and probably would still be using it and perfected it by now had I not got a bug up my butt and ordered other waxes to try and then 415 just blew me away with scent - at least another year later I finally got that wax under control because it was so ugly after pour and looked deformed after burn

old glory has great advice - what works for one doesn't for another and testing is the only way you will find out what you like but all 3 (not sure about Xcel) can be mastered - I have burned others on here that use 464 and C3 and they were damn good candles!

 

 

[Moonstar]

moonshine what wicks do like with the 415. i've been thinking about trying that wax, can it be used for wax melts as well ? I noticed you said you've used the C3 

for melts, unless i read incorrectly lol ! what is USA , is that a supplier I've never heard of them ? also, where have you found the best place for wax + wicks.

i'm in michigan not sure what part of the country your in as far as shipping goes. 

thank you in advance

[GoldieMN]

For me, 415 or 464 didn't work as well for melts because I sell them out of larger jars and the soft wax would smear up the jars.  So I switched to a combination I read about on this forum:  Half EcoSoya CB-Xcel and half EcoSoya Pillar Blend.  I use silicone molds from RusticEscentuals.  The metls pop out perfectly.

Goldie

[moonshine]

2 hours ago, Moonstar said:

moonshine what wicks do like with the 415. i've been thinking about trying that wax, can it be used for wax melts as well ? I noticed you said you've used the C3 

for melts, unless i read incorrectly lol ! what is USA , is that a supplier I've never heard of them ? also, where have you found the best place for wax + wicks.

i'm in michigan not sure what part of the country your in as far as shipping goes. 

thank you in advance

CD and CDN for 415

I do blend it with PB for melts now so I don't have to buy more waxes 

I tried C3 for candles and may have tried some melts it was so long ago I can't be sure and I didn't stick with it for long 

USA is universal soy additive and be found at the candlemakers store - only place I know of that carries it

I am Michigan as well and have found CS To best priced for wax shipping 

not sure what area you are in but there is a supplier in flat rock- southern sensations but the wax and shipping is more than CS for me (Go figure) and I figured the 6 hours it would take me to go there and back isn't worth the few bucks I would save 

now there was another supplier that I cannot remember and need to search the threads that would be 20 a case cheaper shipped - I meant to save it but forgot 

southwest candle supply is one of the few with CDN and I get my CD from candlewic 

[Moonstar]

Thanks so much, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your help  actually not to far from Flat Rock, Im in plymouth. I should check them out.

It sounds like you might be more up north ? off topic, i am SOOO looking forward to summer this year, after the light snow we got yesterday , Im over

it lol ! Im going to try the 415 wax + try the wicks as well - fingers crossed  

Have a wonderful day  

[moonshine]

It's actually only an hour away from me 

which would be a 3 hour total trip with traffic and time is something I don't have a lot of 

it's 3 from our cabin which we are starting to more and more be here more than home! Lol

[Faerywren]

Just an FYI, an 8 oz jelly jar will throw like a beast, so I don't think that is the problem. I use parasoy in jelly jars and I judge throw by whether or not I can smell the candle I have burning on the living room mantle on our upstairs landing when I come out of our master bedroom! The right combination will give you plenty of throw!

[back2basics]

Thank you again everyone for your comments and suggestions.