New member - help with imperfections in soy container candles

[dmg1969]

First a quick intro. My name is Dave and I JUST started the process of making container candles. It is something I have wanted to try for a long time. So far, I have made about 2 dozen 6.5 oz jar candles trying out different scents/fragrances.

I am trying to figure out why I am sometimes getting imperfections and sometimes not. Like yesterday...I made three 6.5 oz. jars each of four different scents. Two of the scents turned out relatively free of imperfections and the other two look horrible. I am posting a few photos to show what I am encountering.

The specifics are that I am using soy wax (Naturewax C-3 container wax), liquid fragrance oil and liquid dye. I am pre-heating my containers in the oven. I pre-heat the over to about 250 and then turn it down to warm when I put the jars in. When the wax is thoroughly melted and clear, I pull the containers so they can cool slightly and then put the wicks in. I then add the fragrance oil and color to the wax. I usually pour the candles when the wax is anywhere between 155 and 165/175.

I was considering moving to regular paraffin wax because I have heard that soy is harder to work with for this reason. Thoughts?

Cinnamon: Not too bad

Patchouli: Also pretty good

Lemongrass and Sage: Ring near the top

Vanilla: Nasty

Apple: Again...nasty

Edited January 14, 2014 by dmg1969

[chuck_35550]

Welcome to the board Dave. I don't use 100% soy for that very reason. I use a parasoy and have been with this wax for a long time. There are some good threads to read for more information but I think you'll find that most of us embrace wet spots and frosting as the nature of the beast. You might want to consider different pour temps and making a box to slowly cool the candles (I use a large cardboard box that is level and then cover with a heavy blanket or quilt) to see if that makes a difference in appearance. I'm sure you researched this wax but you may want to do more research or maybe someone will come in and give you some information. I would try posting this in the all vegetable forum for more response. HTH

Steve

[dmg1969]

Thanks for the information, Chuck! And thanks for moving this to the correct location.

I am still very new to candle making. I'm not even sure WHY I opted to do soy candles instead of regular paraffin wax. I just had it in my mind that I would start off with soy. I was considering moving to paraffin or a blend. I will take some time to read on the forum as I have time. In the meantime, I will keep playing around with what I have on hand. I need to order more fragrance oils to try, containers and wax soon.

Thanks again!

Dave

[EmJean]

Hi Dave,

I had bad frosting when I first started pouring candles (I use ecosoya 135). I started covering them with a big piece of tupperware to cool and that helped a lot. Then I lowered my pouring temperature to 100-105 and now I don't get any frosting even if I don't cover them to cool. Some FO's do frost a little bit after burning and then cooling but I'm OK with that. I would try lowering you pour temp to see if that helps.

Emily

[Faerywren]

Welcome to working with soy wax! I switched to a custom parasoy blend because I didn't like the pitted candle surface appearance and the frosting. Not to mention, I was unhappy with the HT of pure soy.

[lmc]

Hi Dave...I've been using C3 for a few years now and love it (I also use a soypara). There are a few things you can try to improve the texture and look of C3, one being tempering the wax. There are quite a few threads on it and it definetely makes the wax smoother and creamier. Many people pour C3 at a higher temp which enables them to get a smooth top. Some like myself, pour much cooler to avoid frosting issues. I choose to do a repour to fill in any sink holes and get great tops. I've never prewarmed jars...by pouring C3 cooler, you get excellent adhesion and virtually no wetspots. I pour when a slight skin starts to appear on top of wax, around 120*. You can also try adding a little USA (universal soy additive) to lessen frosting and improve texrure. Keep in mind that there are some fo's that will always cause frosting, but for the most part, by tempering the wax and pouring much cooler you can eliminate it with C3. HTH

Edited January 15, 2014 by lmc

[dmg1969]

Thank you all for the replies. I do like the C-3 as it seems easy to work with. I will definitely try lowering the pour temp the next time we make them. We need to order some supplies first. Being new to the hobby, it took me a few minutes to figure out what FO meant. LOL! I use whatever a competitor to Peak (in Texas) sells. Theirs was the first website I came across and decided to buy from. I may change though because of their shipping. They ONLY ship UPS and the last order I placed consisted of only eight 1 oz. plastic bottles of FO and liquid dyes and it cost me like $14 in shipping. I was not happy and I told them I would likely not continue to be a customer based on that fact. I looked at Peak, but would have to start all over with trying FOs and another kind of wax. On the plus side, their warehouse in Mechanicsburg, PA is within 15-20 minutes from my work and a girl I spoke with at Peak said I could probably just pick my order up there. That would save me on shipping! Do any of you have a preference of a candle supply distributor? I already know about LoneStar and Peak.

[EmJean]

Peaks is awesome! The FO's that I have tried so far are wonderful and their customer service is great. I would definitely recommend them. I've also ordered a few things from Candlescience and no complaints there either.

If you can pick up your order from Peaks, it may be worth changing waxes in my opinion. Shipping is so expensive!

Emily

[Node11]

Do any of you have a preference of a candle supply distributor? I already know about LoneStar and Peak.

In no particular order these are some of the suppliers that I'm very comfortable with that really got me started

• Peak Candle Making Supplies - Peak is nearly a one stop shop for me covering about 80% of my needs. I keep coming back to them for their selection, prices and great customer service.
  

• Natures Garden - NG fills in some of the gaps for our soap and B&B products plus they have some awesome fragrances and candle supplies to round out an order.
  

• Candlewic - Good prices on containers, custom wicks, and other supplies as well as reduced shipping offers that can be nice to take advantage of
  

• Candle Science - I keep these guys on my radar for candle supplies
  

• Lone Star - Waxes, supplies, FO's and such
  

• Northstar Country Candle Co - Situated (geographically) close to me but too far to drive, grrr :/
  

Never an issue with any of those companies. If you have a wholesale supply company near you (driving distance) it would be really be worth your time to give them a close look. The cost of shipping supplies can be a big expense.

[JI]

I personally use only soy wax - 444 or 464 and when I used to dye some of mine looked like that. It helped to spritz jars inside with windex and wipe. I quit using dye and have embraced the ivory colour. For a little splash of colour I add a ribbon or something to container. I don't heat jars etc. Way too much work for me personally. I also pour quite hot like 160-170. I don't get wet spots but frosting is there and when it is cold wax sometimes pulls away with a little shrinkage. You hardly see the frosting with the dye free.

Love your jars by the way.

[dmg1969]

Thanks again for the replies. I will sit down this weekend and look more into Peak Candle Supplies. If they allow me to pick up my order, I will definitely do so. I do have at least one scent from Lone Star that I love and will get again. And JI...the jars are Classic Jars from Lone Star...6.5 oz.

[dmg1969]

I wanted to update the thread. We got more wax and fo's and made some more candles. I made three more fragrances in the same jars as the pics I posted. I did try lowering the temp and still had the frosting. Granted, I only lowered it to around 130 because I got impatient. My bad. I was still using the C-3. When it is fully melted and I add the liquid dye and fo, it is around 150 degrees. I remove the pour pot from the water and let it start to cool.

The funny thing is that mu wife made a few under my watchful eye (she had chosen two fo's) and hers had very little frosting. We used 10 oz. keepsake jars for hers and the frosting only appears to be a ring around the bottom of the container. I am still considering a purchase from Peak to save on shipping, but I hate to have to start over with all of the fo's.

I was considering actually abandoning the soy in favor of regular parafin wax to avoid the frosting, but I don't really want to give up on it. I may make a few more over the weekend and lower the temperature even more to see if I can beat it. We usually cool the poured candles in an out-of-the-way location on the counter. The last batch I made, I elevated on a baker's cooling rack to see if that helped.

Has anyone ever tried this...I was considering trying to cool them in the oven. I would preheat the oven to warm (less than 200 degrees) and then turn it off. When the oven was barely warm, put them in on a cookie sheet and let them go. Thoughts?

[MrsM]

I have been pulling my hair out for months with the same issues as you....here is what I have learned.

1. I now add 10% paraffin to my soy 646 as it eliminates the frosting 100%, makes the tops smooth as a babies bottom and lets me add a tiny bit more fo for a stronger throw.

2. The hotter I pour the better the candle comes out, I really have tried to pour cooler as its always recommended to do so, but with me they come out horrible, so I do not wait for them to cool right down.

3. I now place all my candles in the oven after I have poured them, once all in the oven I turn it on to 50c, leave for 2 hrs then turn off. I let them sit in the oven all day, even over night. The reason why is it seems to eliminate wetspots due to me adding paraffin...but geeze they come out perfect.

I also want to add, im in australia and this is what works for me and my climate.

Good luck

[MrsM]

Meant to write 'soy 464'

[dmg1969]

Thanks for your input MrsM. I will probably be switching waxes anyway because I am probably going to switch to the other supplier (who will allow me to pick up at their local warehouse rather than pay big $ for shipping). So, I need to see what they might have in the way of a soy/paraffin blend for container candles. I am going to have to re-do all of my samples anyway because I'm sure theirs are going to be different than those I have been getting from the other supplier.

[dmg1969]

Well, my wife and I are going to do some more candle making this weekend. I'm going to purchase supplies from Peak and pick it up Friday after work. I'm going with the EcoSoya Container Blend Advanced wax.

[moonshine]

Peaks is a great supplier and your very lucky to be able to pick up from them!

Cb advanced is all soy - didn't know if you knew that in your previous post of wanting a parasoy to try

Also it makes a beautiful candle but is a major challenge for scent throw- most threads I have read on this wax the feelings were mutual- I couldn't get it to throw an inch- that was years ago though- so if they have a small 2-5 lb bag I would try it first before buying bulk- just my opinion but it's a challenge enough when your new at candle making and waxes that do not throw great make it more challenging- but everyone's nose is different also- you may love it and smell it just fine- it's definitely worth trying

Their FO's are amazing- have fun shopping!

[dmg1969]

Thanks moonshine! I placed my order and am picking it up tomorrow after work. I am excited to see what their scents are like and the ecosoya vs. C-3. I'm hoping I can beat this frosting issue. If not, I may move to parafin or a parasoy.

[dmg1969]

OK, I picked up all of my supplies at the Peak warehouse on Friday and made candles on Saturday and Sunday. I got 4 oz. and 8 oz. jars. I use the 4 oz. as my samples and the 8 oz. to sell to anyone interested here at work. I like mostly food scents and my wife likes more flowery, garden-type fragrances along with things like Nag Champa and Patchouli.

 

On Saturday, my sister-in-law came over and we made Lilac (special order from my Mom), Fudge Brownie, Fresh Brewed Coffee and Coconut Milk. On Sunday, I made the Blueberry Muffin and Warm Apple Pie and my wife made Country Garden and Green Clover and Aloe. I only got a ten 1 oz. sample pack of the fragrances and each yielded one 4 oz. and two 8 oz. candles plus a little left for a "candle shop" candle.

 

I brought one each of the 8 oz. Fudge Brownie, Fresh Brewed Coffee, Coconut Milk, Warm Apple Pie and Blueberry Muffin candles in to work yesterday and sold them all. I had one more of each at home and sold 2 of those. I just have one Warm Apple Pie and a Fresh Brewed Coffee. They LOVED the scents. The Fudge Brownie I am giving to my S-I-L for helping.

 

My S-I-L is doing a craft show in April and wants me to make some candles to try to sell.

 

On to my critique of the products...

The FOs do seem better than the first supplier I was using. Although there are at least two that I will have to get through them because Peak does not have them.

There seem to be more wet spots with the Eco-Soya, but that is preferable to frosting. I did have some frosting on some, none on others. It did not seem as bad as the Naturewax C-3 I was using before. I think watching my temperatures more carefully could eliminate that. I did not really monitor temperature closely because I wanted to see how forgiving the Eco-Soya was.

I am still going to try either a para-soy or regular parafin so I can get a good comparison. If I could avoid the frosting althogether, I would be much happier. Here is a pic of three of them.

 

Edited March 25, 2014 by dmg1969

[moonshine]

Okay I'm going in...

You just started making candles and your just learning a new wax and your selling already?

I highly advise you to re-think this- there are many threads out there talking about this and the dangers of doing so

You haven't worked with this wax long enough to know how it's going to behave - if I were a co-worker and you sold me a candle and it burned my house down.....well you can imagine the outcome

Insurance? Do you have that?

I highly applaud your enthusiasm of candle making and hope you continue to enjoy it and learn the craft- selling right now is crazy- you need to know your wax inside out and test test test each fragrance over and over with power burns and normal burns to make sure your putting out a safe product - you posted in January you just started making candles

Don't take this as me attacking you - I am concerned for people paying for your product when it doesn't appear you have tested it long enough to know it yourself- I have read and heard of many really bad situations of when people just start throwing wax together and selling it without knowing your system- you yourself said you haven't paid much attention to your temperatures