Customer returns all ordered FOs saying she doesn't like them

[ubure]

Hi there,

okay this is again one of those customers I could....she orders several FOs and send them ALL back, saying they were too strong and not at all like she imagined....Really, all of them? I cannot believe something like that. And well, of course these oils are intensive, they are concentrated, right? These were all oils from candle Cocoon, scent Works etc. so no crap but really good ones.

[Lorelei]

It may be time to set up a good return policy. I don't take oils back simply because I can't confirm what has possibly happened to them after they left me. If there is a problem with wax melts etc. I will consider on a case by case basis.

[marcuset]

100% agreed. Written return policy is a must, or you will be taken advantage of like this. Doesn't matter if she doesn't end up liking them, she ordered them & you provided what she ordered. How many of us have ordered oils from companies & wish we hadn't?

[David Fields]

Totally agree. When someone orders a product online without smelling it first, then says they don't like it? Tough. No returns. That is our policy. Also, our policy is no returns on tarts. A couple of years ago someone brought back a couple of tarts and said they changed their mind on the scent. We exchanged them and later found that there was almost no scent left in the wax. She had melted them until the scent was gone, poured the wax back into the clamshell and brought it back.

[Candybee]

ALL of them?!!!! Seriously! Some people really have a lot of nerve. What was she expecting anyway?

I agree, make sure you have a written return policy thats posted in your shop and website. If you don't have either put it somewhere on your purchase order forms. Decide if you will take back returns on FOs, if you are going to charge a restocking fee, etc.

For a customer like that I would definitely not send her anymore oils as she apparently does not know what she wants.

Do you sell 'sample' vials? This is a good reason to do that. I would think about selling samples and making it a part of your policy not to take back samples.

[TallTayl]

Too strong? That is a new one.

@David Fields-that would really get me goat! Using a product, then fradulently returning it? Geez!

[se2653]

Too strong?? Especially the oils from Candle Cocoon are very concentrated, and you use only 1/2 that you normally would. Many of them smell so much different OOB, and really come to life in wax at the lower percentage. If using a higher concentration the fragrance often gets distorted. I've learned not to judge a fo OOB, and have made myself put it in wax even if I don't care for the scent, and many times I've been surprised that I liked it! I agree with the above, many of us have ordered fo's that we didn't end up liking, I chalk it up to research!

[Guest OldGlory]

The nerve. Now that would really make me unhappy - and probably unwilling to do business with that customer again.

And, ridiculous. You can always cut back on the FO% if something is too strong.

But you know - you are in a huge learning curve right now, and this is helping you structure your business. I went thru a year of cranky customers a while ago and WHEW did I learn a lot! Keep going and don't let the cranky ones prevent you from doing something you have your heart set on.

[ashleyjeang]

I would definitely set a strict return policy. I've not seen a FO supplier yet that even allows returns at all. You can't be sure what the person may have done to them, and they could be contaminated, which means you can't resell. If I sold FOs, there'd be no returns accepted. A lot of new candle makers seem to not realize how much time and research this business takes. You'll have to spend a lot of money if you want it done right, a lot of time, and there will be plenty of mistakes.

[ubure]

Thank you all so much! I never would have thought of a return policy because never before somebody has returned a candle. Supplies are new to me but that is why I should have a return policy. I do have one but only a general one, quite standardized for shops here in Germany (it is more for legal issues as here in Germany we have more than enough lawyers searching for shops that make formal mistakes. These shops get a written warning that costs a few hundred bucks at least and you cannot do the least theing about it).

Yes, I was astonished as well: too strong? Normally people cannot have it strong enough. And especially one of the scents, orange tea and crumpets from CC is a bestseller for years now - everybody loves this scent.

Very good ideas, thank you so much!!

P.S.: Fortunately I do have customers who tell me my fos were addictive....

Edited December 13, 2013 by ubure

[SliverOfWax]

You need to implement the standard "Do Not Judge OOB" and "Buy Samples" nomenclature. And of course "No Returns".

[ubure]

That's a good idea as well! Most of my customers are new to candlemaking so I should tell them this.

I am not sure if I can have this strict return policy here in Germany (I#ve seen in the UK they have) as things are more than complicated here, but I'll check anyway.

Have a nice weekend!

[SliverOfWax]

Yes, you can. It's for sanitation reasons. You can't resell a bottle with a product that's had someone's runny nose on it. Therefore.....No Returns.

[ubure]

Yeah, sounds logically. I should tell her exactly this!

I guess it will be hard work for me to "teach" people how to make candles...I always forget that almost nobody over here has made candles before, not to speak of scented candles. Just a few minutes ago I got an email from another customer who ordered a soap base (CP, no glycerine) and is "disappointed and desperate" (OMG!) because the base didn't get as runny as olive oil or molten sheabutter when she wanted to melt it. Of course it doesn't get runny and it is all in the instructions. Oh my! It is like I wanted to make some leather boots and just start without knowing what to do and then get angry and say this is all shit, bad material, total crap....

Fortunately most of my customers are really sweet but those few are driving me crazy. I guess I have to get used to them again, it has been a while since I last had to do with such people.

Thanks for giving me your precious advice, I am glad you share your experiences with me!

[cybersix]

Inez, crappy customers are everywhere.

Just build a strong policy and stick to that, make it clear, evident, people have to sign it up before closing their orders.

I don't know what is like in Germany, here in italy online customers have the right to return goods in ten days starting from delivery date if they change their mind, for whatever reason. This doesn't apply to customized items made on request.

So put a seal on those bottles and take them back only if the seal isn't broken. More work to do, but offer sample vials. The really small ones, and do not accept return on those.

Of course when you refund you refund only goods cost, no shipping, and shipping back must paid by the customers. No real loss of money if the bottles are unopened. You refund only when bottles are in your hands again.

Good luck!

Edited December 14, 2013 by cybersix

[ubure]

Yes, I need to offer sample vials. Here in Germany people can return orders within 14 days without having to tell why. If the order was over € 40,- the seller has to pay for the return shipping. So with this customer I would have to pay her shipping costs as well (she didn't ask for it). Loss of value could be applied in this case I guess but to be honest I cannot tell her now when I said I would fully refund her two days ago. Damn, I still have to learn a lot.

The other lady with the soap based emailed me again, being happy she was calmed by some videos she watched (she could have believed me in the first place, couldn't she?) and apologized for her panik. Getting panicked because of soap...some people don't know what real problems are.

Have a nice sunday, ladies and gentlemen.

[SliverOfWax]

Surely there are exceptions for "personal" items. Like underwear, medication, etc, etc. I'm not sure if fragrance oil would fall into that category, but I wouldn't like wearing someone's used panties.

[ubure]

:grin2:

[ubure]

okay, talked to a lawyer today. No returns on fos is okay but not for candles and melts etc. But at least I'm safe with the fos.

just FYI, even though it doesn#t apply to you over there in the US.

[Guest OldGlory]

That is great news for you Ubure!

[ubure]

Well, I have to consult the lawyer again, there needs to be some modifications done in my terms and conditions.

Today I received another email from this customer with the returned oils. She wrote that the scents were too artificial for them (well, she will have to search a lot to find fragrances smelling more authentic than the ones she had chosen) and that she and her husband simply put some essential oils in the candles. I really have to hold back myself not to send her a lengthy answer to all of this. When the candles don't burn right or when they start smelling like fuel (because they surely used some citrus oils) it is of course the wax or the wicks that causes this. These people think they know it all, candle making is tosh and of course they do it in a breeze. Grrr!

And then another customer, who is an esthetician working exclusively with organic products (and who should know more about essential oils) bought some wax and oils and told me on the phone: "These are all-natural fragrances, right?" "No, unfortunately you cannot make an essential oils out of banana milk shake."

Do these people ever use their brain?

[Guest OldGlory]

They are asking their questions too late in the process. They should be asking BEFORE they buy if the oils are natural or not. Maybe a disclaimer would help - something that says " if you have questions about a product please ask before you buy. once the oils leave my hands I cannot take it back".

And no, people will not always use their brains, lol.

[ubure]

Thanks OldGlory, that is another good idea.

I never have thought that some people think so completely differently than I do or do things I would never even think about (like returning two single votive candles e.g.) but you are all right: I have to be safe for each and every eventuality.

[Candybee]

You know Inez a lot of new people to candle making make a lot of mistakes at first and sometimes don't ask the right questions. Just do the best that you can to cover yourself with your return policy.

Also, I have a gut feeling that these know-it-alls may come back someday and tell you that you were right. I can't imagine the customer who bought the FOs finding anything better than what you are offering. Didn't they also judge them OOB before testing them in a candle? I think people starting out have unreal expectations and once they learn what they really should be looking for she may be back. It's also possible that she may eventually become a good customer. It's happened before. You never know.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Candybee

[ubure]

You are probably right, Candybee. It is these customers that make me realize what I have to change in my policies, and in my shop etc. So they are an opportunity to learn. I will use the holidays putting up a lot of instructions, projects people can make, tipps etc. Just like the suppliers in the US do. Big role models!

Today I have shipped the last parcels and now there are a few days off. I cannot afford not working between Xmas and new Year as I only started in August, but I will enjoy those few days without oils and wax etc.

I wish all of you a very happy christmas, much joy and laughter, peace and relaxation, and a bit of the original spirit of Christmas. take care,

Inez