Not liking this 464

[*Dee*]

Ugh, I should have just ordered the 415 that I used to use. But thought Hey, I'll try something new! I have poured several candles and some of them have a little dip near the wick and ones that turn out beautifully when I test burn them after they're lit for a small amount of time you can see an air bubble near the wick. Then you have the wet spots lol I guess I was spoiled with the 415 even though I had to wait till slushy stage to pour. I figured 464 would be a lot easier due to be able to pour hotter. Oh and I am test burning cinnamon from NG which was a best seller for me in 415. In the 464 there is barely a scent throw. CT was even less than I remember. But in all fairness I think I need to wick up, looks like the flame is about to drown out. So might just be that. Can not wait for my 6006 and 3022 to get in and I will def be ordering my 415 back. Sorry, just felt like venting. Will be taking a candle with me to test at the hotel tomorrow night lol

[franu61]

I am testing 464 too. Poured last weekend and not getting much CT. just about ready to burn. Was really hoping this would work. I (was) using EL and loved it. But have to find something else now. Any pointers out there from 464 users??? Did you get good HT with 415? May have to try that one.

[*Dee*]

I did only let the candle cure for 2 days, testing the wick not the scent throw. but I can barely smell the scent at all more of a warm slightly scented wax lol If I let it cure more and wick up it might be okay but I dont have high hopes. And the 415 for me kicked butt! I hardly ever found a FO that didnt throw in it. CT and HT were amazing with it!

[franu61]

ok gonna try some kick butt 415. thanks

[moonshine]

464 has to cure for at least 5 days IMO to get good throw

I never had air bubbles or dipped tops- I always heated to 180 added FO at 175 and poured at 140-150 and had perfect tops everytime

I used CD wicks - what I didn't like the most was the burn and the frost that popped up down the road - CD worked best out of all the series I used but it just didn't burn nice- looked like thick stale crisco

I did switch to 415 after doing a test and seeing the throw is much better- but I did have really good throw with 464- and for me it was super easy to get it to look good- 415 took me some time to master

[franu61]

Thanks moonshine! If I may ask..what temp do u pour the 415?

[*Dee*]

464 has to cure for at least 5 days IMO to get good throw

I never had air bubbles or dipped tops- I always heated to 180 added FO at 175 and poured at 140-150 and had perfect tops everytime

I used CD wicks - what I didn't like the most was the burn and the frost that popped up down the road - CD worked best out of all the series I used but it just didn't burn nice- looked like thick stale crisco

I did switch to 415 after doing a test and seeing the throw is much better- but I did have really good throw with 464- and for me it was super easy to get it to look good- 415 took me some time to master

When I pour any hotter than 120 I get decent sink holes by the wick and have to use the heat gun. I still get some dips by the wick probably every 3rd candle. I am really not testing for hot throw, just for the wicj but couldn't help noticing the wax smell. Even my husband commented on it. but like I said above I cant really judge it yet cuz it has only been 2 day cure. Right now I am testin with htp 104. Waiting for my cd's to be delivered. that's all I ever used in my 415 but I didn't have any left. I heat to 185, add FO around 175. I know the cinnamon always took a longer cure time even in the 415 but when testing wicks in that in a few days I still had some ht. I am not 100% giving up, I have a LOT of candles still to test. I am going away until late sunday night so I will wait until then to light it back up. Could be NG changed the FO too, might not be as strong as it was a couple years ago. So many factors it could be lol Which is why I am not giving up, but I am just not liking it at the moment lol

[*Dee*]

Thanks moonshine! If I may ask..what temp do u pour the 415?

When it starts getting a slushy appearance. If I remember right it was right around 100-110

[moonshine]

Same here... The 415 I pour at 100 or just when it starts to get a touch cloudy

Dee- I had a love/hate relationship with 464- I know what your saying

For me the HTP 104 in the 8 ounce square mason was too hot at the end and it didn't throw near as good as the CD so when you get yours in see if that makes a difference - the HTP for me always gives a fuel/waxy type smell for me in all soy I ever used

I used 464 for many years and tried adding beeswax and palm stearic to it also but once I tried the 415 the throw had me so impressed- but it was one seriously ugly candle! I had wet spots like crazy and crater tops but after figuring out all those issues I never looked back from 464 - I still have half a 50 pound case here that I keep saying I want to try again but never do! Lol

Edited October 26, 2013 by moonshine

[*Dee*]

lol yeah, I am trying to talk myself into continuing to test it. That I can not make up my mind already with only half a candle tested that only had a 2 day cure. But remembering how good the 415 was to me, I expect more from 464 already lol. I will be ordering the 415 real soon. I got 6006 coming to test with and 3022. Have you ever used either of them? It was suggested to add 15% 415 with the 6006 to make one awesome candle. Worth a shot I figure. I guess I am just biased knowing how my candles used to throw lol It made me really picky! lol

[Justjasen]

I am a die hard 464 user. I did extensive testing over a year of all the EcoSoya blends, Nature Wax, and GB blends and found 464 to be the best overall. I will say that all my testing centered around allowing the candle to cure for a minimum of 4 days. I use ECO wicks in my container candles. I used to add a small amount of coconut oil but have found no difference in CT or HT with/without the coconut oil. I heat to 180...add dye/fo..cool to 140 and pour. I occasionally get some rough tops, but I have yet to find any soy wax that is perfect hehe.

[*Dee*]

maybe I got a bad batch then. I am having one heck of a time with sink holes near the wick and the cinnamon candle when I first lit it ( top looked awesome ) once it started burning you could see an air bubble.sink hole under the top coat. It's driving me nuts lol. I made the cinnamon Tuesday evening and started testing today. Since I am leaving for the weekend I will wait until monday to do another burn on it. that'll make 5 full days and a half day to cure enough I would think. It very well could be the htp wicks too. I remember hating them in the 415 which is why i went to cds. And is why I have them left and no cds lol. I will get my cds monday i believe. I will give it the benefit of the doubt monday if i'm still not happy and test that FO again with CDs. Just so I know in my heart i didn't give up too soon lol

[*Dee*]

oh one more question. Are you guys heating your jars? I am not. wondering if that could be causing the difference, although 65-70% of mine still come out with smooth tops.

[franu61]

Lots of good information in this thread thanks all.

[Lorelei]

Always wanting to try new things, I gave 464 an attempt, had the same results as you and didn't like the residue it left on the sides. I ran back to my 415

[moonshine]

I did heat my jars- but just a touch, I would put them on a griddle on warm

464 didn't seem to like heavy oils - maybe it's the cinnamon oil causing the sink holes- I never could get CS cinnamon buns to work in 464 and I can't get it to work in 415 either, they look good in 415 but the wick always drowns out - I made a tester with a CDN16 which you would think in a 8 ounce mason jar would be a torch....we will see

It's crazy how different waxes work for people- I thought 464 to be cake next to 415 as far as appearance and I struggled with 415 for a long time to get that right- but I definitely love the 415 more- the throw is soooo much better!

Dee- I do have the sample slab of 3022 but only tested 1 fragrance so far I haven't had the time to play with it much - and the fragrance I did test I can't decide if it's any better than 415 in that fragrance and I have never tried

Edited October 26, 2013 by moonshine

[Traveler]

I tested 464 and 444 extensively and kept having issues with it "growing". I don't know the technical term for it, but after I made candles the wax would puff up and literally cover the wick. This was usually several days after they had cooled. I followed CS's instructions and ongoing advice to the letter, poured multiple batches; I also ordered cases of wax from different suppliers just to see if the batch # had something to do with it. Nope....it was exhausting. And expensive. After a year of total bafflement I decided the universe was sending me a message and I better just knock it off. lol! (Oddly, the other soy wax brands I poured and tested did not behave this way.) Truly a weird experience. I am glad that others have had no problems with the 464 and 444.

[Guest OldGlory]

I just hate to hear of anyone having trouble with 464 since I love it so much. I've been using it for at least 5 years and it throws so well! I know there are some FOs that don't work in it but I haven't found one that just doesn't work at all. I pour a lot cooler, around 110, after I've let it cool to a rough slushy then reheat it until it's creamy.

Dee, are you seeing a slight dip around the wick and calling that a sink hole?

[craftsbychris]

I love 464 ! I started with it and still use it. It's my only wax. I even make melts with it. Nice strong throws too. If I have a top once in a while, not smooth, I just use the heat gun to smooth it .

[Justjasen]

I don't heat my jars. My candle shop is always around 70-75 degrees and my jars are stored in my shop. When I was testing I noted that if I poured ON the wick my tops needed more attention and occasionally I would get what I think you are calling sink holes. I make sure when I pour that I never pour on the actual wick and have not had near as many issues as if I poured and was hitting the wick with the pouring wax.

[SherriLynn]

Fran.. I feel your pain!! I tried 464 and 415... wasn't impressed with either. Nor the Eco's...these waxes just don't throw like EL does. The reason I chose EL 10 years ago was due to its amazing HT and CT throw. I have enough EL to last me through spring, depending how large the fundraisers come in and am seriously hoping I can find a replacement wax...If not, we may need to rethink keeping candles in the biz.

[*Dee*]

So I started test burning peppermint and love spell and couldn't get a ht from them either. I put a black raspberry vanilla melt in the warmer and it covered my downstairs and upstairs within an hour. 2300 sq ft. I could smell it coming up the basement stairs as well. I finally got my cd wicks in so I pulled the htp from the candles and put the cds in. Will start test burning with those today to see if that helps. I am also getting my 6006 in today too.

[franu61]

Fran.. I feel your pain!! I tried 464 and 415... wasn't impressed with either. Nor the Eco's...these waxes just don't throw like EL does. The reason I chose EL 10 years ago was due to its amazing HT and CT throw. I have enough EL to last me through spring, depending how large the fundraisers come in and am seriously hoping I can find a replacement wax...If not, we may need to rethink keeping candles in the biz.

That's what I was afraid of SherriLynn, I've only used EL...so when you start with perfect it's hard to replace it. I'm seriously thinking of just laying in a huge stock of EL (while we still can).

[moonshine]

It still amazes me how everyone's results differ... I tried EL and didnt think the throw came close to 415- I have tried just about all of them, as far as soy, and for me 415 is the most reliable strongest throw

I would love to do a soy candle swap for fun- just to be able to see and compare throws since results vary soooo much from one person to another

[Guest OldGlory]

Moonshine, I love the idea of a soy candle swap! Count me in. 8 oz container works for me.