jeanie353

Yes, you would use the same wax for the embeds as the crust. I used IGI 1260. It is a wax with a MP of 163, is semi-translucent and a 10 or 11 lb slab will go quite far for embed/crust making. After I sent the post yesterday I thought of several different things I had forgot to mention so I'll do that now..... When you work with gel wax you are going to be working with higher temperatures than our usual waxes for containers, pillars, tarts. Always go by what the instructions from the supplier/mfg are......but with gel you are starting out with a big hunk of....well, gel (lol).. which you will cut or tear pieces off, weigh out and melt down to add your fragrance using 1/2 oz to 3/4 oz per pound of wax. The most I ever heard wax 1 oz which was in high density gel and I think that might of been a stretch. The gel does thrown very nicely using the lower percentage fragrance oils as recommended. Gel gets heated to about 220 (if I remember correctly) and will go to a semi liquid state. This is important....don't try to get it to go to a liquid state like our regular waxes do or it could be a big hazard and only go as high on the temp when melting as you need to per supplier/mfg instructions. I used a separate Presto pot for my gel but I'm not sure that is necessary because it clean up so easily. The gel just lifts right off when cool making clean up a breeze. I'd wipe it down after I poured the candles and then pull whatever residue may be left when done. The mess on the working surface just peeled right off. Also, with coloring your gel it takes waayyyy less dye than candle wax does. I used to use a toothpick and dip in my liquid color then just touch it in the wax or go one drop at a time. It colors really easy and what you don't want for your candle pie gel is for it to be opaque with too much color or you won't see the embeds as well. The color you see in the pan is what you will get in the end. The colors mix I used for the crust was vanilla with a touch of rust...use whatever shade works for you. I liked my crusts to look like they were oven baked while some others like theirs to be a little lighter. You can get the molds for making the embeds and crusts very inexpensive or not depending on where you want to start. I started out with yellow plastic ones (forgot where I got them) and moved on to silicone in a couple months. On the embeds/crusts I think IGI 1260 will take 6% fragrance load but it retains it very well and colors nicely too. Also, this is not a wax for use of burning candles unless you are making hurricanes or embeds. You will not have to do a repour with this wax on embeds/crust unless you come across something in pie making that I did not....I'm only going from my own experience with that. If you don't mind I will pm you with the supplier I mentioned yesterday in my post that imo I would not recommend. I would feel so bad if you went through all this to get up and going and you didn't get your supplies. Have Fun

I second tropical breeze. I'm not sure if she is still on eBay but that is where I bought my stuff from when I was doing pies. Her turn around time is super fast and her embeds, shells, etc. are the best in quality and price (imo). Jeanne

I used to make all kinds of pie candles so I'll try to help you out a bit. You cannot use J50 for the crust because it is a container wax and far too soft. You need a harder wax with a HMP preferably. What happens is when the gel burns if the crust isn't made with a high enough MP, it will all melt together and be a big mess. The best gel (imo) is Penreco and for pies you can use medium density...possibly light if you are going to dome up the fruit embeds and just pour a layer of gel over them. There are various ways to make pies. Some just put fruit near the top with the bottom strictly gel. I made mine with a full crust full of embeds domed up and poured medium density gel over the embeds. You can buy the crusts pre-made on eBay or other supply places (I highly recommend Tropical Breeze) or you can get yourself a mold and pour the crusts yourself with a suitable wax, same w/the embeds. If you go with your own mold make sure it is very flexible because some pie crusts can be a little tricky to get out....depending if they are fancy type crusts or not. You can also buy your fruit embeds on eBay or other supply places scented and non-scented. The gel you will scent yourself. This is important....make sure the fragrance oil you use is GEL COMPATIBLE or it can be a fire hazard. Those can be found at BCN and some other supply places. There is a gel supply place you may want to steer clear from (imo) due to customer service issues but I'm not comfortable posting the name on the board. Most use zinc wicks for the gel pies. Rule of thumb I used was (3) 44z in a 5" pie and (5) 51z in a 9 or 10" pie. You would secure the wicks to the bottom of your tin pie pan, stick them trough your full pie crust (pre-drilled) or if you are using a top ring for a crust you can rest that on the edge of the tin pie pan. It should secure itself when you pour the gel or to be on the safe side you can use a couple little dabs of hot glue in 3-5 places to secure the ring to the metal pie tin. Then pile in the embeds to a dome type fashion, pour the gel over the top and cut wicks when the gel cools. Oh, also stir your gel wax as gentle as possible to avoid bubbles yet enough to make sure the fragrance oil is incorporated into the gel before you pour....about 2 minutes. Also, gel wax takes less FO per pound that almost all our container, tart and pillar waxes do. The supplier info should have that info. Hope that helps and I didn't go overboard with info to scare you off. They really are easy to make and I found they sold like crazy but just didn't have the room for the extra supplies needed for the pies anymore so I sold it all off awhile ago. Jeanne

Eric when you went to the high MP on your wicks did that change how the candle burned at all? I think I'm going to switch over to custom built Eco's from CandleWic and use a high MP for the prime and in the meantime pick up some Micro and dip the couple hundred I have here. They are tabbed but I'll just hang onto the tab with a needle nose pliers or something while I dip them.

Reading back my posts on this, I neglected to put in that from the length of the wick laying in the jar when I got it back, she does NOT trim her wicks. I provide every new customer with a new large toe nail clipper (I know sounds tacky) to trim their wicks because I know some tend not to. I'd love to give each customer a wick cutter but I don't make enough profit yet to do that. I was checking out wicks at various suppliers yesterday and see at CandleWic I can built my own Eco wicks with a high prime MP wax. I think that is what I am going to do. They offer prime at 3 different MP choices on that all the way up to 210 degrees (I think). I'm hoping that doesn't change how the candles burn since it took me way over a year to get to the point of getting through the testing.

EricofAZ.....I buy my wicks pre-primed. I think you had a really good idea to start a new thread on this just in case the wick priming is the culprit here. I will admit I did not look at the supplier's disclosure of what was used as a prime prior to this happening. I thought I was being so very cautious in every aspect but missed this one...way missed this one. I like your idea of dipping in Micro. I had thought about the MP getting too deep/hot on a power burn but through all the testing I am as low on the wick/fragrance combo I can get without them never reaching full MP by a 4th burn and sacrificing throw. RRD is first choice recommended for this wax but I wasn't happy with them, Eco is next, then HTP, paper and Sq Braid. HTPs and LXs don't give me the throw Ecos do with my wax/fragrance combo. I have a feeling it might be the priming. I did melt down a little Stearic acid last night and dipped one wick in that and am doing a power burn today which puts the prime at 20 degree MP over the wax...not what I would do in the future but for the test, it might suffice for an answer. I have another going without the Stearic dip for a side by side power burn. My candles don't go out of here without an inch per jar/inch of MP test and a power burn test on every scent/wax/wick combo on every batch and while I never experienced this in a power burn, it sure did happen.

I used one wick. When I melted it down I found the wick tab had stayed in place. The candle had been burned about 1/2 way down when it happened. The wick was laying over with most of it on top of the cold wax with a little under. The black on the jar was thick and very black. It had the shape of what it would look like if a flame was held up against it for some time. All she told me is the wick fell over. When I saw it is when it became clear it not only fell over but kept right on burning. I am wondering if the supplier used a melt point wax to prime the wicks of something less than 160 degrees and when the power burning went on the primer wax was low enough to cause the wick to droop. I had purchased wicks during this time frame from two different suppliers depending on how soon I needed them or if I was ordering something else at the time then just added them to the order so the supplier is narrowed down to one of two. Checking their websites neither of them disclose the MP of the wax used for priming. In fact, one of them has wicks removed from the product list totally and I just ordered 100 of two sizes from about a week or so ago. Both are suppliers many of us on this board use. Now, I'm not accusing either supplier for low melt point priming but I am wondering. I dug out some stearic acid and am going to dip one of my Ecos in that to see how it burns. I had thought to add either Vybar or Stearic to some 130 degree paraffin I have here but I'm thinking that may not get the melt point high enough. I've never experienced this before either but scared me enough that seeing it happened once, it could happen again ending up in a tragedy so I have to figure it out before I sell anymore.

Steve I like your labels. I'm trying to go from oval hang tags to clear labels but I can't get them to print more than a light gray color. I emailed Online Labels or Labels Online (forgot name) where I bought a couple sample sheets but haven't heard back from them. Wonder if you had any suggestions. TIA Jeanne

I have a client who power burns her candles regardless of all the warnings and instructions. She mentioned on one of her recent container jars, a wick fell over while burning. I didn't realize how much much of a hazard I was now dealing with until I saw the jar (when she returned it to me). This wick fell over and continued to burn while being very close or up against the side of the glass. I honestly do not know why the glass didn't break. Has anyone had this happen or can anyone offer ideas of what may have caused this. She power burns every single candle and this is the first it happened. I am thinking maybe a new batch of wicks not primed with HMP wax? The wicking is Eco, the wax is CBL130, the jar is apoth. 16oz. I believe Libbey but if not it was not a cheapie jar. The wick size is the same I have always used for this scent with this wax & this jar. So now I stopped everything until I figure out what happened so I don't have another powerburner end up with a fire.

The one I found to have the strongest cold throw is CBL 129. It is a 2 pour paraffin...but depending on your project it is what would work for you.

ok...i got soot on the 3rd burn. Back to the drawing board

I haven't tried chunk candles yet but it is on my to do list right after I tackle pillars...so maybe 5 years or so

I also tried TCS and didn't have the luck others seemed to have with that one. It was not a bad wax imo by any means. Now that I think about it, I was using FOs at the time by 2 suppliers who I have now stopped using due to the dilution. :undecided Hmmm....I may have to revisit TCS if 129 doesn't work out. I hope it does tho'.

Hi Ravens I'm still working with wicking as this is my first try with CBL 129. I tried LX which performed very good but thought I'd try a zinc so I stuck that in. I'm only about to do the 3rd burn today with a 51z (16 oz apoth) so far no soot. It should go to a full MP on this burn so I'll let you know if I get soot as it burns farther down. I found with 129 and the FO I had that 1/2 to 3/4 oz gives a great hot & cold throw. I have the tarts, tea lights and votives sitting in the work area and WOW....the cold throw is out of this world. The HT from testing is going through the lr, kit, 1/2 bath and wandering up the steps. I used 2 CC oils, 2 CW and Bert's Lilac. Bert's I used 3/4 oz.

:wave: Hi jennyjo Ellyn at Candle Wick thought maybe I poured too hot. I did try 3 oz soy to 1lb wax and another with 2 oz crystl. palm to 1 lb way. I poured them at 150 which apparently was too low for the mixture because I got jump lines like crazy. The throw on the 129 is awesome so I'm hoping so much to conquer this. I just have to get it creamy. Oh, also Candle Wic is sending another slab out in case it was a flaw on their end. I am adding paraffin to my line and imo CBL 129 is the best I've tested for hot/cold throw as well as ease of wicking. I have also been working with CBL 130 and love it. I was using another supplier 70/30, my own blends, then found CBL130 and I don't think I'll be looking back.

I got my first sample of CBL 129 based on the great reviews. I love the scent throw but my containers, tarts and votive candles are sorta transparent. The tea lights are totally transparent, tarts are transparent to about 1/3 of the way in, the containers (16 oz apoth) are like a semi-transparent and the votives are about the same as the tarts. I used the same amount of dye (1 dye chip pp of wax) as other paraffin waxes but they came out very light. They all look like spring type colors (very pretty) but not what I was expecting. I'm afraid to put more dye in because it might affect wicking. I'm wondering if this is normal for this wax or maybe I did something wrong in heating or pouring. I did heat to 185, added FO at 180 and poured at 175. I used 1 oz FO pp and the throw hot & cold was knock your socks off type...almost too much that I could back it down to .5. I like a creamy candle and would consider adding something to the wax to get the opaque creamy look if anyone knows what I could do.

I am having the same problem with my new batch of 464. CT is pretty good but HT is almost non-existent. I thought it was my FO but I've never a problem before from Bert so I figured that wasn't it besides I tried 4 different scents. I sure am glad I decided to check in here this morning before guests arrived for Thanksgiving to see I am not alone AND while I still had some hair left. I even tried adding some J223...no help. I always add 1 tsp CO anyway but even that isn't helping right now.