BusyBee

3 hours ago, jancita said:

Thank you so much, Busybee. I am very grateful for the knowledge you are willing to pass along. It sounds like the best I can do is to create or find some complex scents from sources available to all of us and get buy-in from the shop owners who have asked me to create this "exclusive" line. 

 

Kind of! 😉  It might be cheaper to work with fragrance house or manufacturer from directly.  Ordering samples from many different suppliers could add up really fast & huge unless you have near by supplier where you can walk-in to smell them before you make the purchase.

Renaming scents could help, too.  I rename all my scents from off-the-shelf FOs without modifying ingredients. 

*Candle FO scent name use to be the description of scent like "Ocean Breeze", "Walk in the Woods", "Fresh Cut Rose", etc.  But, It seems like new naming trend is like "xxxx + xxxx" format now days.  Le Labo, Lab & Co., etc.

On 5/19/2020 at 7:33 AM, jancita said:

This is my first time posting on this excellent forum. I have done an extensive search on this site for the answer to the question I'm about to ask, but if this question has already been answered elsewhere, I apologize, and I would very much appreciate being directed to the right place. 

 

Anyway, I am fairly new at selling candles, but I've been pretty successful in a short period of time. A local shop has asked me to create an exclusive line of coconut wax only candles. They want "unusual, top-of-the-line fragrances." I'm not sure where to find those. I love Brambleberry and Lab & Co's complex scents. I can't justify using these in my regular line of candles, but I could perhaps do so in a higher priced line. I was wondering if I'm missing other high end fragrance companies. And by the way, I am way too small at this point to deal directly with manufacturers of the scents, but I would like to in the future, so don't hesitate to mention these. 

 

Thank you all so much. I feel fortunate to have found this forum!

 

All of chandlers are looking for "unusual, top-of-the-line fragrances" to use in their candles like high end companies.  In order to achieve that, we would need to realize the fact that most of those high end candle companies are perfume companies before candle companies.  What I am trying to point out is the fact that it's the complexity of scents rather than quality of aroma chemicals used in oils.  Any of American, Japanese, French, British or any reputable European FO company should be considered high end fragrance companies.  It's just the popularity of high end fragrance companies' certain scents that makes some scents considered as high end FO.  So, rather than looking for high-end fragrance supplier or manufacturer(There is no such a thing.), try to learn the notes of FO.

We might think one simple FO is very basic, but it is not.  Just rose FO alone, there are several hundreds rose FO to choose from.  Even one FO manufacturer makes 57 different types of rose FO.  If you can pick out the best rose FO from what is available on the market, then it could be considered as the "unique, one-of-kind".

Just pick out any FO you like and have the store owner smell it without telling him or her what it is.  The chance of he or she pinpoint the name of scent is close to zero.  

I suggest you to go to AFI [Aromatic Fragrances International] manufacturer's website and go thru their fragrance list.  https://afi-usa.com/  They are supplier of some of candle making suppliers mentioned in this forum.  What you want to look at is "Notes" of each scent and compare them to high-end candle companies' popular scent notes. 

Most FOs consist of 7 to 9 different aroma chemicals in them.  I am no expert on this field so I might be wrong, but I suggest against blending FOs together.  I believe too many different aroma chemicals in one FO is not a good thing.  Well, have fun with your journey!

7 hours ago, CandleRush said:

Hi! Are those two wicks together a new thing! Never have seen this before.

I guess this is double wicking.  I just didn't give any space between 2 wicks.😊

I think it's the cooling environment that is the cause of sink holes.  Cooled too fast or too slow will cause some kind of problem.  Eventually you will figure it out.  👍

First I tried to double wick GB 464 because none of the single wick was big enough for 16 oz tin.  None of these double wick worked either.

But, then I found 2 wicks put together did the magic.  I use 2 ECO 10 put together for 16 oz tin.  Should this considered as ECO 20?  I don't know.  

This picture is ECO 10 & ECO 8 put together for smaller diameter than tin.  It does not get hot.

Only thing I can say is that you will have to be creative with GB 464 for container bigger than 3 1/4 diameter.  Have fun your venture!

This is what had happened when I heat the wax to 200F.  Similar(but less) would happen if I heat GB 464 to around 190F, too.

This happened when I didn't stir well.

My suspicion is that you might have over heat the wax little bit on that one???

I never get any sink holes now days.  I think the key is to keep the heating temperature below 185F.  I try to heat it up to 180F so I have some margin of error room to work with.  You are trying to heat the wax to 180F.  So, I think you are on the right path.  

I found the old(2016) picture of GW 464.  Lots of bubbles while it is burning, and it was heavy in viscosity.  Top was bumpy and ugly after burn back then.

This is current GW 464, which is a lot better.  Lean & clean but still some little air bubbles.  Top looks great after burn.

8 hours ago, Hometown Handmades said:

I will test without fragrance or dye next go around, but before this reply these are my candles I made yesterday. Just wax, fo, and a few dye drops. No beeswax, or coconut oil. They turned out pretty well on looks, will wait a couple weeks to light to see about the scent/ wick. However just one of the green ones ended up with a hole in it...not sure why? Can you advise me on that? 

Is the candle in the last picture GB 464?  It doesn't look like GB 464 to me.  

8 hours ago, Hometown Handmades said:

So you do 12% per lb of soy? Those pictures are interesting! I recently viewed candlescience's wick chart, i put i use 464, and diameter of the 9 oz jar and it suggested CD 10 wicks, with ECO 10 being the runner up. So I'm just curious what the difference would be for CD and ECO. on the 16 oz, it recommended CD 22.  I Just ordered those, and will try them next. The candles I made yesterday, I used RRD 37 for 9 oz diameter 2 3/4 "

Yes.  I do use 12% FO.  They used say that 12% max FO & heat it to 185F some years ago.  Now days, a lot of suppliers recommending 10% max & heat it to 150-160F.

For your 9 oz diameter 2 3/4 container size, ECO 8 or 10 should be about right.  I haven't tried CD in other than 16 oz tin.  CD 22 for 16 oz tin would be kind of small.

On 5/4/2020 at 6:22 PM, Candlefriends said:

So I'm blending the Coconut 83 w/ GW 464 soy,  60/40 ratio. I let the candles rest 1 day, and pour 2.5 oz. on top the second day. I poke 4-5 holes around the wick using a skewer. I jab it pretty good to the bottom. Sometimes it seems that the air is still trapped while pouring (I see a little bubble). While burning, the holes appear, disappear, and then reappear in different burn cycles.  Is this weird??? They seem to be fine other than aesthetics. No sinking or cracking. When I do the second pour the wax is pretty hot. Thanks! 😊 😁!

GW 464 used to produce bigger & a lot more air bubble while it is burning until 2018.  Somehow, wax got a lot better in 2018, and it's only producing little tiny bubbles & burns a lot better than before.  I think those little bubbles are kind of normal thing for soy wax.

On 5/9/2020 at 9:09 PM, Hometown Handmades said:

GB 464

heated 1 lb wax to 180, took off heat, poured 6% FO, stirred, dropped a few brown dye drops, stirred. Cooled to 135, poured. 

I poured into a 9 oz glass jar with eco 14 wick. i also poured into a 16oz tin container with a eco 14 wick. cut wick and put on lids 24 hrs later. Waited a week, minimal frosting.

Lit 9oz and smelled great, in room size as big as a garage, and it burned evenly. 2 days later, lit the 16 oz tin. no HT, and tunneling. 

 

another issue-

Also read on website where I purchase supplies, that their  coconut oil, 1/2 tsp- 1/2 tbs would help scent throw with soy wax, and mixing in beeswax would help it have a smooth finish.

1.80 lb GB 464, and 0.20 lb beeswax, and put in 1 tsp of coconut oil. same  method used above except 12% FO. It made one 16 oz tin, two 9 oz jars, 2 wax tart containers, and one 4 oz tin. the 16 oz, and 4 oz tins are smooth as can be on top (cant see sides bc they're tins) the two 9 oz glass jars, however, are frosted all the way around, one has a crack in the wax across the top, and the other one also frosted all the way around, and a cracked in a circle shape around the wick and looks as if it sank some. It's a darker purple in the cracks of the circle. I just made those on Thursday (it's now Saturday night) and i still haven't cut the wicks and put lids on yet.

 

 

 

I use GB 464.

I heat the wax up to 180F, add 12% FO, stir really well, pour at around 135(130 - 140F).

Is your 9 oz container about 3 inch in diameter?  If it is, then ECO 10 or 12 should be about the right size.  For 16 oz tin, that's TOTALLY different  territory.  No standard wick will perform well in 16 oz tin, but there is a way(see pictures).  *Even though most supplier claims 16 oz tin, it's actually 14 oz tin.

GB 464 will frost really bad, and there is no way to prevent it.  That's why a lot of chandlers gave up dying it including myself.

GB 464 is really good wax by itself.  I am suspecting it's the beeswax you have added that is the cause of bad cracking.  Try without coconut oil & beeswax.  *If you are still going to dye your candle, then add dye while wax is heating up.

Yes.  Soy wax needs a lot bigger wick than other waxes.

One thing I like about 464 is its gentle HT characteristic.  It does not throw potent HT like some other waxes.  Some might think HT is too weak.  But, I like the HT of 464, and I find that there are quite a few people who likes gentle HT rather than potent HT.  You cannot satisfy everyone's preference with one wax.  I chose to go for customers who prefer gentle HT.

*There is big difference between weak HT & gentle HT.

As for the %, I use 464 with 11 to 12% FO.  I never tried less than 10%, so I cannot say anything about using less FO.

I don't cure my candles for days or weeks.  I tried 1 day, 2 day, 1 week, 2 week, 1 month, 6 month, 1 year & 2 years old candle.  For me, I don't see any difference of longer cure time.  Maybe it's just me.

I don't think anyone can claim their wax as "eco-friendly wax" when we put all the considerations together.  But, you still can make and market "eco-friendly candle" by using most eco-friendly ingredients & parts such as container, packaging, etc.  

Actually there is one real eco-friendly wax, and it is in Japan.  It is called Japanese Wax or Sumac wax used by small artisan candle makers in Japan.  They make their own wax without using any chemicals, and wax is not for sale.  

*Sumac wax that is available in US are mostly made in China with using chemical process.  Even the ones available for sale in Japan are chemically processed ones.

If I am not mistaken, I believe costmetics & massage candles are already under FDA regulations with or without medical claims.  I suggest you to take a look at FDA regulations.

You might want to check out these sites.

https://onlineshippingcalculator.com/

https://onlineshippingcalculator.com/shipping-discounts

https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/224619

"shippo" might be good place to start until you have good shipping volume.

1 hour ago, Peggy T said:

I wonder if they actually work...

I don't know about the top one, but one on the bottom seems to be doing really good.  It is called "Candle by the Hour" by Eclipse Home Decor.  They got their product into Walmart & HomeDepot, and it appears to be they are doing good in Amazon which means it works.

Few interesting candle designs!

I would not recommend anyone to take Candle Business Course from someone who has no clue on CPSC(ASTM standards), Department of Consumer Protection, FTC, & OSHA.  I looked at their website, and it is breaking a lot of regulations & industry standards.  Candle business is not as easy as they think it is.  I think there are a lot more & better information in this forum, and it is for free.

Thank you for posting news on Ecosoya!  I was kind of hoping that Kerax would move into US market by using old Ecosoya factory as their US base.

It looks like Kerax is going to manufactured them in their own factory in UK.  I don't think any of US candle supplier would be interested in bring it back to US.

You should check out "Suppliers by State List" in this forum.  

If your near by suppliers does not have good deals, then you might want to look into -

Jar Store has the best shipping price & price on containers, and lucky for you that they are located in WI.

CandleWic should have the best shipping deal on half of waxes they carry.  Look for the one with "Shipping included" deals.  They are located in PA.

For fragrance oils, you should consider quality over saving on shipping cost.

For wicks, shipping cost is minimal.  Locate the ones that would work for you.

Jar Store in Milwaukee Wisconsin should have the best deal on Anchor and Libbey clear glasses.  They have nice selection of low priced matching lids and very low shipping fee.  I find their price with shipping is much lower than other supplier's deal with free shipping.

https://www.jarstore.com/jars/11-oz-libbey-heavy-base-rocks/

Hi.  I hope you are doing well and staying healthy, too.  

You might want to try to find a spot that is warmer(70F and above room temperature) and lack of draft first before you try other methods.  If that is not the option that you can do, then try putting box over the candle.  (Blow in some hot air into the box and/or cover it with blanket might help little bit more.)

Another method would be to create relief holes and do double pour.  With coconut wax, it does not need double pouring method to achieve beautiful looking tops.  But, you might want to try to do double pouring method all the time for soy wax like GW 464. 

*Single poured GW 464 could have very nice good looking tops.  But, single poured GW 464 cannot look better than double poured GW 464. 

 It's nice to hear that you got Coco83 working.🙂

On 4/3/2020 at 12:08 PM, jbullock89 said:

Hi there! I have been making candles for a couple of years now but just switched wax. I started with Joy Wax and never really had a problem, but my last batch was useless! I didn't change wicks, containers, or even FOs and I get absolutely no hot throw and hardly any cold throw. The one thing that did change was that I started using a SoyLite wax melter. I've always used the double broiler method in the past but this seemed so much more convenient. I am wondering if temperature inconsistencies may have affected the ability to get any scent throw...? Has anyone ran into this before? 

 

Also, I ordered some 464, thinking it was an issue with the Joy wax, but now I have 2 problems. 1) the soy candles look TERRIBLE and 2) amazing cold throw with ZERO hot throw... I just spent hundreds of dollars on useless candles and I have no idea what to do. I'm about ready to give up Any advice?

I don't have experience with Joy Wax, so I cannot give you any feed back on that part. 

But, I did and still use 464 melting it on Presto Pot (same as SoyLite wax melter) for small batch of testers.  With my experience, SoyLite wax melter was much better than double boiling method.

Pouring temperature is very important to have nice looking 464.  Pour in between 130 to 140.  Cold room temperature could have affect on appearance of candle, too.  And for the wick, it would be almost impossible to wick 464 that I haven't seen that many, who succeeded.  If you can post some information on your 464 (% of FO, container size, wick, pouring temperature, etc.), then I might be able to give you some suggestion on 464.  

As for the Joy Wax, others might be able to give you some infor.

Booster Wick 0.02 would work best for 464 (You said you are using 464 blend, so I am not sure about your wax.).  And for the width, your container size would work well with about 0.50" width.  Width could be vary little bit depends on your FO type and % load.  You might want to consider ordering 0.625" width and cut them off to narrower size or the widest 0.75" one.  Many other type and size did not work with 464, and it looked like your candle in the picture.

Even 0.02 booster wick that works excellent with 464 has problem of quality control problem.  I had 95% worked excellent, but 5% did not stay lit.  Maybe @TallTayl's suggestion might get rid of this quality control problem.