BusyBee

Welcome to CraftServer!

If you are Santa Cruz CA, then Candle Science should be real good choice for you due to close proximity for saving on shipping cost.  And they do have good quality products.  If you want to try out few others, then California Candle Supply in Glendora Southern CA would be good supplier to check on.

There is a company called Perfumer's Apprentice in Scotts Valley CA which is very close to you.  They have only few very expensive FOs for candle (which I don't think it is worth that kind of money), but you could learn a lot about fragrances from their website.  You also can make personal visit to their operation when this pandemic is over.  They have perfumery workshops.

I have been checking these below until recently, but I felt there are few very important things that need to be observed also.

Glass containers: Thermal shock endurance & Annealing   *I did my best to figure this out, but I have to admit it was not enough.  I just went for reputable American manufacturer glasses.

Container temperature during burn

Checking for any cracking or breaking

HT: Spreading out range and direction, Complexity of scent, Strength

Wick: ignition & re-ignition, tunneling, guttering (flickering), Performance in both heavy and light draft, Clubbing (mushroom), Capillary action, curvature (curling), tipping or floating, stability, Self-trimming capability

Flame size, quality & brightness

Wick tab floating

Duration of After glow & Smoke of extinguished flame

Wax consumption rate

Frosting & Wet spots

Melt pool:  Depth, Width, Hang up, Time it take to reach certain size melt pool, Temperature, Scorching

After burn:  Top appearance, Discoloration of wax, Wax shrinkage, Re-ignition

Burning Environment:  Room temperature, Humidity, Room draft condition & direction, Location of testing candle distance from the floor

Somehow I feel these are more important than what I have been checking above.  I think these might be the key for optimal HT.

Convection:  Strength of air current and its temperature & amount of air being pulled into the container

Radiation

I mean wax & FO.  I though I was having best result with 464 at 128F melt pool temperature for so long.  But it turns out that  around 135F is the magic number for 464.  Above 138F, I am starting to get burnt wax smell.  4 other waxes in my possession, I find that 140F is optimal.  But is it really the best?  I feel that without Convection & Radiation knowledge, I don't think I can be  100% sure.

I have been measuring melt pool temperature which would be one of the ways to checking for conduction.  J type thermocouple would work to measure flame temperature and convection.  How about radiation which is the heat that we feel.  Could there be any method to measure this?

Many of us think that aroma chemicals are being release from the melt pool.  Does anyone know at what temperature aroma chemicals are being released from the wax?  What would be the ideal melt pool temperature?  If aroma chemicals were to be release from the melt pool, then could they be being burned passing thru hot burning flame producing some kind of burning smell?

How do we determine some wick burns hotter than others?  Is there way to measure this?  Or is it determined by just observation?

I just realized the fact that my candle testing method was not a complete candle testing.  So, here is my question to advanced chandlers.  What are the things that we are supposed to be looking for during candle testing?  And, how would we know that we got optimal result out of certain ingredients?

"TM" is an unregistered trademark.  What does that mean?  They don't have to register with any appropriate government agency, and they don't have any legal protection.  They cannot sue anyone for damage claim.  I can claim TM on all of my products, but why bother when there is no protection?

Even those registered trademarks with ®, not everything is protected.  Every trademark is case by case, and it needs to searched for how they are actually registered for.  It is expensive process to search in details.  So it would be better to stay away from ®.

8 hours ago, Craft89 said:

BusyBee - Wow very resourceful. I am wondering about trying the long plastic food clips. 

 

After you melt your wax in Presto pot what are you transferring it to cood to the right temperature for fragrance? Are you just transferring it to your candle making pouring pot or have you found something better for you?

I use several pouring pots to mix & pour.  Presto to pouring pot when I was beginner and now wax melting tank to pouring pot.  Next best method will cost around $7,500 for the system (wax melting tank, agitator & dispensing gun system).  Next up system would cost little more than $20,000.  For beginners & hobbyist, Presto to pouring pot should be the best method.

Oops!

I did this when I was a beginner.  Laundry clothespins are another alternative for beginners.

On 10/10/2020 at 3:51 PM, Craft89 said:

Checking back in. I made my first small batch of candles today from a candle making  kit. They are still setting up so I will test burn them over the next couple of weeks and let you know.

 

Again, I used a starter kit with paraphin wax. I did warm the jars in the oven at 170 degrees (lowest setting on my oven) and turned the oven off about halfway through melting the wax. Left the jars in the warm oven until wicking. I also left 2 jars to pour cold to test that against heating jars. 

 

Initial Problems:

 

1) The double broiler method was fine but I think it is worth investing in a Presto Roast Pot to melt the wax. The way I lean over the stove in my tight space, realized I might burn myself on the broiler. Oven mitts were a bit combersume but not impossible. Holidays are coming up. I'm sure one of those will go on sale somewhere. In the meantime, I'll stick with the double broiler.

 

2) Candy thermometor was okay for the first round, but I want to invest in a digital thermometor going forward. Anyone have any suggestions as to which brand from the hardware store?

 

3) Might be beneficial to make a paper template to find the center of the jars. Eyeballing it wasn't very effective (at least not without my reading glasses!). The kit came with stickers to adhere the wicks but I think a tiny hit with a hot glue gun or some kind of high heat glue might be very effective and will try that next time. Any suggestions?

 

4) The wicks that came in the kit were terrible. Like I got the rejects or something. Some were bent, detached from metal base, etc. I have other wicks I bought from a different company when I test a different wax which I will try then.

 

5) Wick Clip. Don't know if it was the wicks or the clips but the clips cut many of the wicks off whenever I tried to attach them. And it was hard to get a firm straight pull of the wick with them too in order to get a clean straight wick line. I think I need to find something else inexpensive to hold the wicks while the wax sets. Any suggestions?

 

6) Fragrance. Okay, I ordered a handleful of sample ones that came with high customer ratings. Holy Moly. If I openned the fragrance and it was offensive, I decided to throw it out. Figured it might be like wine. If you don't like how it tastes to drink it, it's not going to taste any better if you cook with it. I don't like that there isn't a scratch and sniff scent chart that you can smell before ordering scents. Just throwing darts mainly.
 

7) Some warning labels came with the candle kit which I can apply to the bottom of the jars if I decide to give any as gifts. I think I will forgo actual stickers to label the scents, etc. For gifts, it will be easier and cheaper for me to just make a gift tag and write it on there.

 

Will let you know how they burn, etc.  Thank you for everyone's suggestions!

 

 

2)  Any Non-contact infrared thermometer should work well.  No need to look for certain brand.  Walmart has variety choices including good price on Presto Pots.

3)  I use this to mark center of containers.  It should be self explanatory looking at pictures.  *There are other ways to do it for clear glass.

5)  If you try to install by hand, then wick can break off from wick tab.  Try to use this as pictures show.  Blank of Bic ball point pen works best as wick installing holder.

7)  All scented oils do not smell pleasant.  It is very potent and smell is unpleasant in oil form.  It need to be made into a product to produce wanted beautiful scent.  You will be able to tell by smelling it in the future as your experience grows.

Have fun!

5 hours ago, Pam W said:

BB: it might be our joke of the day but as you know, once something is posted on the internet, many will buy into it.

Now my opinion is this:  if adding CBD oil to a candle serves any purpose then maybe it should be explored....but if it doesn't really add any benefit to the burning candle, then why go to that expense......especially since CBD oil is not cheap.

All that said, I do make a lotion containing CBD oil...for personal use and find that it does help with some muscle pain but I have some friends that have tried the CBD lotion with positive results but resist continued use due to the fact that it may cause them to test 'dirty' on a drug test.

 

question:  when I purchase CBD oil for my lotion, should I be asking whether it is derived for male or female plants? (in an effort to avoid the dreaded ''positive drug test''??)

CBD oils can be derived from both Hemp or Cannabis plants.  Hemp contains more CBD and less THC, and Cannabis contains more THC and less CBD.  It is known to be that female Cannabis plant has higher concentration of THC not the Hemp.  Hemp is legal in Federal level and most states.  Cannabis is legal in many states but illegal in Federal level.  Most CBD oils made for lotion should have been made with Hemp with less than 0.3% THC which you don't have to worry about its legality except for 3 states I think.  US DEA will consider CBD products containing more than 0.3% THC as a Schedule I drug.  It would not be economical to derive CBD oils from Cannabis plant unless they want higher THC content oils.  Most lotion oils will be derived from Hemps, and most CBD oil suppliers should be selling legal Hemp CBD oils.

43 minutes ago, Pam W said:

I guess the real question here is '''what's the benefit"" of adding the CBD oil to the candles..is one going to experience some sort of  calming sensation from inhaling the candle's hot throw. ???

 

Before I put out some large expenses on the ingredients of my candles, I need to know that it is not a waste of money.....other than the hype that may induce some people to buy my candles....and considering the cost of an ounce of CBC oil, there is no way that I'd ever recover the cost of supplies without going online and selling my candles at high prices with enormous hype surrounding the addition of CBD oil...just because there is an endless market for gullible people that will buy into whatever you're selling....that just is not in my wheel well.......

 

Please don't take that seriously.  That was supposed to be my joke of the day. 

I am a board member of a company who has big Federal Government contracts.  Even though cannabis is legal in State of CA, I cannot get associated in Cannabis industry.  We will loose our big contract.  Even for my candle business, I am aiming for federal government contract & trademark licensing too.

As for my knowledge in Cannabis oils...  We happened own 200 acres near cannabis cultivation & processing zone.  I had to research on them in order to figure out what their operation can cause to our land value.  This is matter of million dollars for us.  We had to know what they do, and any possible contamination that can be caused by their operation.  I had to find out how they grow it, how they process it & many other things.

Cannabis could be very sensible matter to many people.  But I hope we can just laugh this off.

18 minutes ago, Marisa11 said:

Yes Wes mentioned the Co2, Propane, and distilling methods.  I saw the pricing to and I would think if that was how it was being done the time alone would be worth a lot more money than what is being charged. When I told Wes about it, he said he doubted that they produced much scent but that it might be possible. There was a another picture of her cooking some tomatoes in a pan talking about her tomato vine candle. Now I have a tomato allergy (Citric acid, tomato paste) I wonder if that would give me a reaction.

 

She posted a couple other short videos but nothing that gave any real insight on her method. If anything it does make me curious to buy one.  One video was showing how to light her wooden wicks because I guess she had some feedback about the wicks not staying lit or not burning properly. She lit some on camera and one wick was dying out and she said that was because it was close to the real blueberries that were next to the wick and they were still juicy but that it would fix itself.  

 

If she did find a way to make that happen then good for her and I would be discreet about my methods too if she really was able to produce what she is claiming.  

 

She had a video saying how regular candles have all these toxins and that big brands don’t need to tell people because they are not regulated by the FDA. Well candles aren’t considered food or drugs so I would assume they would not be. Now does that mean her candles would need to meet ASTM standards as well as the FDA since she is claiming that because you eat organic you should be breathing organic which insinuates that you are breathing her candles. Now because I have a tomato allergy would I have a reaction to her tomato vine candle? 

 

For her wax she states she uses a beeswax/palm wax blend. At least I think that was what she said I saw it in one of her posts that I can’t find right now.  Her labels and marketing though are quite impressive. 

 

 

She claims to using organic fruits & organic waxes on her website, but she did not specify which waxes she is using.  Now, it make sense that she is claiming her waxes as organic if she is using beeswax/palm wax blend.  But she would need to have USDA's NOP Organic Certification in order to claim such.

As for the CBD candle, that was supposed to be my joke of the day.  I have no intention to make one and suggest anyone to make one either.

My company owns about 200 acres very close to cannabis cultivation zone.  I had to research cannabis industry in order to find out what effect their operation can cause to our lands.

As for the pet safe thing...  It could be one of those massage candle as you are guessing.

CBD oil made from Hemp would have almost no THC, but CBD oil made from female cannabis plant (and also depending on extracting method) would contain highest concentration of THC.  

Did you know that many candle buyers are cannabis, cigarette or cigar smokers.  They need candles to get rid of bad orders in their houses.  Why not give them both in one product?

Coco Bright #11 should be Accu-Blend Hybrid Coconut Blend.  I would recommend Calwax Coconut-Apricot over Coco Bright #11.

Actually I got contacted by one of dispensary near me, but I have to stay far away from them due to my other federal government contracts.

There are several different kinds of extracting method.  Most common method would be Butane Extraction(BHO) where we see a lot of News about those illegal lab blowing up due to butane build up in a room.  Other methods are Carbon Dioxide(CO2) Extraction, Rosin, DHO Extraction, & Ethanol(EHO) Extraction.  Even propane can be used.  It would yield about 13% average depends on quality and parts of plant used.  In other words, it would take average of 7oz of cannabis to make 1oz of oil.  It cost about $300/oz($200 to $400/oz) so it would take $2,100 worth of cannabis to make an one ounce of oil not including cost of extracting it.  It would be thousands of dollar candle if someone can make one.

I don't know.  It looks possible, but cost of doing it with other ingredient would not be cheap either.  Her method might be possible, but her pricing tells different story.  And, also she is claiming she is using organic wax which is impossible unless she makes her own organic wax.  We see this kind of surprise candle makers all the time.  So what else is new?

Yes!  Scent preference would be very subjective.  First, we all need to realize the fact that there is no such a thing as good and strong or weak scents.  Everyone has different sense of smell.  The scents that I consider too strong can be too weak for many others.  And the scents that I consider too weak can be too strong for many other people.  Same thing with good or bad scents.  I might love some scent that can be hated by many others.

Try to find something that you believe in that will fit very well for your targeted market, and it is your job to find customers that will love your selections.  Do not discourage by the ones that would not like your selections.  Because there are many others who will love your selections also.  You need to know your targeted market preferences in order to come up with good selection of your own scents.  If you can become a candle maker who can start a fragrance trend in your area or targeted market, then that would be considered as your success.  One more thing to add is that if we do not have the right wick for the candle, then this supposed to be good FO would not perform at all.

As for buying wholesale, Lonestar is only one of hundreds candle making suppliers out there.  All of these candle making suppliers would not be considered as wholesalers.  They would sell to anyone without a business license, and we pay the same price that any general public would pay.  Good news is that we still can make money buying from them, and the quality of their product is equal to real wholesalers.  For fragrance oils, only wholesalers would be fragrance manufacturers or fragrance houses.  There are hundreds of them, too.  Firmenich, Givaudan, Mane, IFF(International Flavors & Fragrances) & Symrise would be considered as top 5 in the world.  They own or bought up many smaller fragrance houses such as Agilex which is owned by Firmenich.  

So, who has the best fragrance oils?  That is a question that no one can give you clear answer.  Whether it is from candle making suppliers or manufacturers, only your ability to find right customer for your selections would provide final right answer for that question.

I don't have the full system.  I use Rite Hete VRS 60 quarts, and I love it.  There are few hot spots, so you might need to stir once in a while like every 10 to 15 minutes.  But that hot spots are very minor thing.

Coogar has been in business for long time, and I never seen anyone complaining about their systems.

WaxMelter is kind of new company, and there is one member in here that was not satisfied with their melter due to melter not providing constant temperature through out in the tank.

I haven't purchased dispensing system yet.  That should save a lot of time.  Do you already have a big wax melter?  Most dispensing gun system should fit into other company's wax melters.  Check with manufacturers for fit. 

*I did not want to spend $2,400 for dispensing system.  So I am kind of trying to create my own gravitational dispensing gun system without heating feature at very cheap cost.

As for the agitator/mixer, you might want to consider using something like below picture before you make big purchase from the wax melter factories.  Currently I am using paint mixer blade with power screwdriver, but this should work a lot better.  This is available at Home Depot for about $180, and its dimension fits most wax melters well.

There should be some chandlers in here that use full systems and  should give their feedbacks.

This will might cause disruption in palm oil supply chain for while.  Palm wax users might want to follow this situation.

US blocks palm oil imports from one of the top producers

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/u-s-blocks-palm-oil-imports-from-one-of-the-top-producers/ar-BB19A42f?li=BBnbfcN

For most glass container manufacturers, candle container market would be very small portion of their business.  Glass manufacturers might be able to provide verification papers if this was to be done periodically instead of every batch.  I don't know.  That sounds like almost impossible task or unwanted task to do for such a small portion of their market.  I have feeling most of them are actually marketed as glass wares instead of candle containers.

Foreign manufacturers would not be responsible for following any of these regulation unless they are exporting directly to US specifying it as glass candle container.  It would be responsibility of importer, and I don't see any small importers capable of following this regulation.  Maybe this is the main reason why we rarely see made in China fancy candle containers in US?  

Your understanding is correct!

There isn't much I am doing regarding this matter other than trying to buy glass container made for candle container usage from big US manufacturer hoping that they have done their part.  This is one of the reason why I am trying to push my tins more, but there are so many who prefer glasses over tins.

Who are the actual buyers of candles? 

This sounds so obvious.  But in order to come up with your targeted market, you will need to find out who are the actual current candle buyers & prospect candle buyers first.  If you can find the answer to this question, then you should be able to find ways to cover your weakness in tech/social media.  Not that many people are tech/social media savvy including myself and probably many in this forum.  If you do research on this matter right, then you will be surprised to find who are the actual big candle buyers.  Your brand & logo, candle design, marketing strategy, & pricing will depend on this research.  You might not want to get into tech/social media market at all if you can make candle business work in other field.

Well, bath & body is totally different category where everyone has to buy.  You will need to have totally different approach on that one.  Good luck!

Are you talking about Mod Podge thing?  If you are trying to do rice paper or napkin method, then I believe it will come out with brush marks since Mod Podge is kind of thick material.  Maybe doing last 2 coats with very thin(lean) Mod Podge by adding some water into it?  It might require a lot longer to dry by adding water into Mod Podge.

Another method that might not show brush marks would be to do direct transplant of inks by removing paper with water.  This will require more time and some practices.

You would have to reverse print your design on paper.

Glue the printed paper on to glass jar using Mod Podge, and let it dry completely.

Wet the paper with water really good for several minutes.  You really have to soak the paper.

Remove paper by rubbing it gently and carefully with fingers or sponge. 

Only inks and Mod Podge will remain on the glass and should come out without any brush mark.

*There should be some video on internet doing this method also.

I am not sure whether Mod Podge can stand the heat of candle.

Unless you are an architect who designed your own house, there is no way that you will be able to figure out air flows caused by AC, heater, mechanical ventilation or natural ventilation features of your house.  The air flow of your house will change when you turn on on of these devices.  Even natural ventilation air flow would change due to change of wind direction outside.  So, finding a right spot to place a candle wouldn't be an easy thing to do even in your house, and it would be impossible to figure out all the other houses.

What we can do as a candle maker is that we can design a candle that would work best in these different conditions.  Concentrate working on controlling the hot air flow caused by the candle flame.  Some wick will produce really strong hot air current which will shoot up the aroma chemicals all the way up to the ceiling where we wouldn't be able to smell.  If you can find the wick that will produce gentle warm air current from the flame, then it should spread out the scent side ways in the room working with air flow of your house.  Put your hand about 6 inch above the candle flame.  If you cannot leave your hand there for long time because of the hot air, then you might not be able to smell good near the candle where the scent would have escaped to other rooms by air flow of your house or might have evaporated mostly when it comes down to where we are able to smell it.

Does this make sense?  This is just my wild theory without scientific proof.

You have a lot more regulations to deal with in your country than here in US.

These links should help you understand what you would need to do.

https://www.craftovator.co.uk/candle-making-guide-book/legal-requirements-for-selling-candles-wax-melts-/

https://www.craftovator.co.uk/candle-making-guide-book/a-guide-on-clp-labelling-for-candles-/

https://www.gov.uk/find-local-trading-standards-office

Good luck!