Kerven

@ShineOn: Those are the wicks I use, so I guess we can rule those out. My first guess would be that the dye in the 4oz jar may have influenced the burn of the ECO 4 wick enough to make it an acceptable burn. Then again, that's a huge step from a good burn to something that smoked like a chimney, so it probably wasn't the dye. If the 8oz jar is the same diameter but a different height, it should have worked with the ECO 4, at least early on. I have no idea what happened there. I agree with your results and the supplier's recommendation for the 4oz jar - ECO 4 is a good starting size for 2.75" jars - with adjustments as necessary. That was going to be the next size for my fragrance test, if I hadn't accidentally used an ECO 8 instead. The recommendation for the 3.20" jar... I haven't worked with coconut in jars that large. Based on Northwood's suggestion of wicking down a size from what you'd use in soy and my experience of needing to wick down two to three sizes, ECO 10 seems like a decent starting point for a 3.20" jar. You said you tested that recommendation from California Candle Supply and the results were the same. Did it burn too hot? I'd have thought ECO 10 might perform somewhere between CD 10 and CD 12. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find a slow-wicking wick for thinner waxes. I've read that cotton cored wicks are recommended for coconut wax. I've also seen online merchants selling coconut blend candles with woodwicks. Woodwicks... Hmm! For their 90% coconut blend, Northwood suggests their ribbon wicks or ECO's. Blending is something I'd like to try with coconut wax. With 464's recent issues, the negative reviews on the quantum waxes, frosting, long curing times, and general frustrations of using soy, I'm excited for new plant-derived waxes and blends. There are people blending coconut and soy at varying ratios. 50/50, 10/90, 90/10...etc. If you're accustomed to wicking soy, it might be easier to use a blend of 90/10, soy to coconut. I can't seem to find the page I was reading a few weeks ago, but it did say that up to 10%-15% coconut wax shouldn't have enough of an affect to require changing wick sizes. I'm curious to see if soy will harden coconut wax enough to make it easier to wick while improving wet spots (I get horrible wet spots from coconut wax) and not contributing any frosting. Maybe use a soy pillar blend? Coconut is terribly soft. @birdcharm: Not in cosmetics. I haven't dabbled in any of that beyond melt & pour soap. I've been browsing additives, wax blends, and such, and stumbled upon several patents and resources. Some use antioxidants to preserve the fragrance and wax, others use large percentages of fatty alcohols rather than vegetable wax, one used antifoaming agents to help the hot throw, another used polymers... They're patents, so I can't copy or use the formulas or techniques. Just looking for a bit of insight and inspiration. I never knew so many things could be used in candle wax to influence the burn and throw. It is costly both in time and money. I wish I had used the tray method for the unscented tests. It would have been so much easier and speedy. At this point, I'm on the fence over whether or not to continue with coconut wax. If I sold candles, sure, there might be a niche market for it, but as a hobbyist... I don't want to say that it is more frustrating than soy but it definitely isn't an easy wax to figure out. Not what I had anticipated. Not a wax for beginners.

Most of the candles I make around the holidays are for gifts and personal use, but I do have one to two people who request a dozen or so. I like pines as well. CS Fraser Fir is great (strong hot throw!). Peak had one (Christmas Tree? Spruce? I need to figure out where I put it...) that was great OOB. If Keystone stocks Peak's scent, I may have to pit the two together and see who wins. CS White Birch is also nice but less piney than Fraser Fir - I will be using it. RE Christmas Past was nostalgic, so that scent will definitely be used. CS Wassail, Flaming's Vanilla Bean Noel, Candlewic's Apple Cider Donut, and RE Sweet Potato Spice are all on the list. I'd like to add peppermint scents, but I haven't found any that screamed peppermint to me. They're all more of an artificial, muted mint that has no punch or bite (I'm wondering if adding a drop or two of essential oil would help with this). EBB Spiced Cranberry will likely be my cranberry scent for the season... still uncertain. Nothing too special planned for jars. I have frosted oxford tumblers with flat silver lids, which I've been saving for the holiday season. Haven't decided on labeling. I'd really like to try screen printing but I think that's going to be too much work with all the other to-do's the holidays bring. Embossing the lids might work... Hmm! If the jars weren't frosted, I would be tempted to use the metallic alcohol inks left over from last year's project to stamp the jars with snowflakes or some other wintery design, then seal them to prevent the ink from rubbing off.

@ShineOn For your test of ECO 4 in the 4oz and 8oz jars, did you use FO? If so, was it the same FO in each candle? I had the same results with LX wicks and coconut wax - mushrooming. LX 16 had the least amount in the unscented 2.75" jar. Adding FO might fix that, but I see little reason to go back to testing LX's in this wax, considering how much better the ECO's performed. For the 3.20" container, I would start with ECO 8 without FO, ECO 6 with FO, and test one size above and below for either. Unfortunately, I don't have much experience with the CD wicks, but my rule of thumb (and something I read somewhere but can't seem to find now) is to take the wick size recommendation for soy and wick down two or three sizes when using coconut wax.

After the CD and LX testing I switched to ECO since I had that on hand. Your results are interesting. Which coconut blend are you using? Which supplier are your ECO wicks from? Mine were from Candle Science. I'm beginning to think the priming wax may be the culpit as my wicks are burning too hot for the coconut/apricot blend and there are no more sizes to move down to unless I manage to find extra long tealight sizes. I've stopped testing for now while I work on soy candles for fall, but when I pick it up again I think I may look into unprimed cotton core wicks. This wax is so thin, easily taken up by the wick, and readily combusted that I think priming may not be necessary. Here are my ECO results with the coconut/apricot blend: 2.75", unscented, no additives, no dyes, wicks trimmed to 1/4", no cure 1hr - ECO 2 - MP 1/2" from the sides, no mushrooming, 1/4" MP depth, flame a little tall, jar not too warm ECO 4 - MP 1/2" from sides, no mushrooming, 1/4" MP depth, flame a little tall, jar not too hot (but slightly warmer than ECO 2) ECO 6 - MP 1/3" from sides, no mushrooming, 1/4" MP depth, flame a bit too large (tall and wide), jar not too hot (about the same as ECO 4) ECO 8 - MP 1/4" from sides, no mushrooming, 1/3" MP depth, flame too tall, jar getting hot (hottest of them) 2hr - ECO 2 - MP 1/4" from sides, no mushrooming, 1/3" MP depth, flame unsteady and smoking, flame too tall, glass becoming hot ECO 4 - MP 1/4" from sides, no mushrooming, 1/3" MP depth, flame unsteady (less than 2 and 8), flame is tall, glass becoming hot ECO 6 - MP 1/4" from sides, no mushrooming, 1/3" MP depth, flame unsteady (less than 2 and 8), flame is tall, glass becoming hot ECO 8 - MP 1/4" from sides, no mushrooming, 1/3" MP depth, flame unsteady and smoking, flame too tall, glass is hotter than the others 3hr - ECO 2 - MP 1/4" from sides, slight mushrooming, 1/3" MP depth, flame unsteady and smoking, flame is tall (lower than before), glass is hot ECO 4 - MP 1/5" from sides, no mushroomng, 1/3" MP depth, flame unsteady, flame is tall, glass quite warm but not hot (about the same as before) ECO 6 - MP 1/5" from sides, slight mushrooming, 1/3" MP depth, flame unsteady, flame is tall, glass quite warm but not hot (about the same as before) ECO 8 - full MP, slight mushrooming, a little more than 1/3" MP depth, flame very unsteady, flame is large and wispy, glass too hot Extinguished 2nd burn, wicks trimmed to 1/4" 1hr - ECO 2 - MP 1/2" from sides, no mushrooming, 1/4" MP depth, flame a bit tall and unsteady, not too hot, a lot of hang up ECO 4 - MP 1/3" from sides, no mushrooming, 1/4" MP depth, flame a bit tall and flickering, glass was warm, a lot of hang up ECO 6 - same results as ECO 4 ECO 8 - MP 1/3" from sides, no mushrooming, slightly deeper than 1/4" MP depth, flame is surprisingly wide and bulky compared to first burn, less hang up than the others 2hr - ECO 2 - MP 1/5" from sides, no mushrooming, 1/4" MP depth, flame unsteady and smoking, not too hot but quite warm, hang up is starting to melt away ECO 4 - MP 1/5" from sides, no mushrooming, 1/4" MP depth, flame unsteady and smoking but not too tall, warm but not too hot, hang up is melting ECO 6 - MP 1/5" from sides, no mushrooming, 1/4" MP depth, flame unsteady, tall, and smoking, warm but not too warm, hang up melting ECO 8 - MP 1/8" from sides, slight mushrooming, 1/3" MP depth, flame too unsteady and large, glass is hot, hang up melting 3hr - ECO 2 - MP 1/8" from sides, some mushrooming, 1/4" MP depth, flame unsteady and smoking, starting to become hot, still has hang up ECO 4 - MP 1/8" from sides, slight mushrooming, 1/4" MP depth, flame unsteady and smoking, glass is borderline hot, still has hang up ECO 6 - full MP, slight mushrooming, 1/3" depth, flame unsteady, tall, and smoking, glass is borderline hot, still has hang up ECO 8 - full MP, some mushrooming, 2/5" depth, flame very unsteady and smoking heavily, glass is too hot, hang up is almost gone Extinguished Other than the flame height and the glass being a little warmer than I'd prefer, the results were as expected and mostly consistent. I did test the ECO 6 and ECO 8 with FO (CS Pumpkin Pie). The test burns weren't completed due to issues with the glass becoming too hot and the flames much too large. In hindsight, I should have tested with ECO 2 and 4 but mistakenly wicked up to 6 and 8. 2.75, CS Pumpkin Pie @ 6.25%, no additives, no dyes, wicks trimmed to 1/4", 3 day cure 1hr - ECO 6 - MP 1/4" from sides, no mushrooming, 1/4" MP depth, flame steady but a little too tall ECO 8 - MP 1/4" from sides, no mushrooming, 1/4" MP depth, flame steady and too tall 2hr - ECO 6 - full MP, no mushrooming, 1/4" MP depth, flame steady and too tall, glass is hot ECO 8 - full MP, slight mushrooming, 1/3" MP depth, flame flickering and much too tall, glass quite hot Extinguished due to heat of glass. (I was certain they would be dangerously hot come the 3rd hour.) I was overall surprised by the ECO results in this wax as ECO tends to burn a bit hot in my soy candles. It would have been my last choice for testing if the urge hadn't hit me to give them a try. For the CD testing, CD 8 was my target size based on recommended sizing for the 2.75" jar and soy (I knew I'd have to wick down a little due to the coconut wax). It performed as expected - better than CD 6 and CD 10. However, my notes indicate that the flame was too large from the start. MP did reach the sides by the 3rd hour and mushrooming was minimal. Heat of the glass was about the same as in the ECO tests for the ECO 6. What really threw the test for a loop was the second burn. By the 2nd hour, there was slight mushrooming, flame was quite unsteady, tall, leaning in the direction of the curl (creating uneven heating of the glass), and smoking when flickering. Hang up wasn't much of a variable of success but it was present. It also burned much hotter than the soy tester with the same wick size. It went from so-so in the first burn to no-no in the second burn. Still not certain why that happened. I have been brainstorming and researching ways to harden this and coconut wax in general. My head is swimming with possible additives that serve a variety of purposes... antioxidants for fragrance preservation (BHT, irganox, vitamin E), anti-foaming agents for increased scent throw, calcium stearate, sorbitan stearate, non-ionic emulsifiers, bekro be50, mono- and diglycerides, propylene glycol monoester... So many! For hardening, cetearyl, cetyl, and stearyl alcohols look promising. If/when I get back to testing coconut, I'm probably going to give those a try. I'm curious to see if hardening the wax will make it easier to wick.

If using liquid dyes in soy wax, keep in mind that colors may tend to be more pastel or faded in soy than in paraffin. I recently started using liquid dyes in soy and have found that I have to double the amount of certain colors to come close to what I would get in paraffin. I did get a nice shade of grey by using 9 drops of CS's black dye in 16oz of 464 soy, although it did have the slightest hint of green to it... not certain what caused that.

I remember them being something of a hybrid between a shortbread and a sugar cookie rolled in cinnamon and sugar. Sometimes with crushed pecans. I've had a small amount of Snickerdoodle from CS for about a year. It never struck me as an authentic snickerdoodle scent. I get more of a toasted buttery scent - like the browned edges of a cookie - with little sweetness (not completely absent) and no cinnamon or vanilla. I thought it would make a nice blender, so I tried it with CS Lemon Pound Cake for a more "toasty" pound cake or lemon cookie. Turned out nice but needs tweaking.

I've used CS Caramel Popcorn in melts. It was fairly decent. Heavy on the buttery notes, a discernible popcorn, but caramel was lacking. Not a freshly opened container of Cracker Jack or Poppycock type scent, but good with a long cure. I found a clamshell I made last fall and, surprisingly, the scent is still there. @GailC CS has fantastic, speedy shipping. I have never experienced a delay with them. My order was placed this morning as well and should arrive tomorrow. I like that they offer a carbon neutral option.

Limiting it to just one is tough. I'll go with the first FO I fell for: CS Oakmoss and Amber.

I thought it had an odd herbal quality to it OOB - probably the coriander, which reminded me of the Montego Bay CS carried. Maybe it's heavy in base notes. I'll give it the blotter test to see if the dry down brings out more of those notes. If so, I think it might pair well with a tiny amount of CS Cinnamon and Vanilla. Thank you!

I'm searching for a dupe or smell-alike of DW Home's Tobacco Noir. The fragrance description states, " Ambered tobacco with warm vanilla musk touched by exotic tonka beans." It has a cinnamon note as well. So far, I've found tobacco pipe, tobacco caramel, and a couple other things, but nothing with amber and vanilla. Any ideas?

Any suggestions for Peak's Fudge Brownie and Pumpkin Honey Chai?

Thanks for all the help. I've been scouring the internet for tips and clues on how to wick this wax. One supplier of coconut 83 has a kit that includes CD 8 wicks. That fits with my results for CD sizes, although, I haven't tested with FO. I read somewhere that someone was using ECO 4's in coconut 83, so I tested those as well (ECO 2, 4, 6, 8). ECO 4 and 6 performed the best in the unscented wax and didn't reach a full MP after 3 hours (accidentally let them burn a half hour longer). They looked promising despite the questionably large flames. Heat wasn't too bad either - less than the CD's. Minimal mushrooming on the third hour. I'll be burning these a few more times to see just how hot the glass gets. If they turn out, I'll move on to testing CD 8, LX 16, and the two ECO's with FO. Still need to test RRD and maybe Premier and wood wicks. I've forgotten where I found it (that's what I get for working in Notepad before a power outage), but there was a reference somewhere mentioning the use of cotton cored wicks for thin waxes like this coconut/apricot blend. It is a cool-burning wax, and these hot-burning wicks are burning through it too fast. What should be a ~20hr candle is going to end up being a ~14hr candle. I'm almost tempted to blend this with soy or stearic to try and tame it a bit. As it is, I'm not too thrilled with its softness and I haven't found an ideal pouring temperature; most horrific wet spots ever when poured at a high temperature, but at least they predictably appear within three days. Given its softness, I'm worried that adding FO will only make it softer.

CS has a nice Caramel Popcorn if you're going for more of the candy/treat aspect of Halloween. Candied Apple was nice as well. If you're looking for a pumpkin scent, EBB's Sweet Pumpkin is a subtle, not overbearing pumpkin. I swear it has a buttery sweet cream note to it... like all those White Pumpkin candles I saw in stores last year. How do you like Witches Brew? I recently ordered a sample and like it OOB on a blotter. A little worried it might lose some of its strength and depth in soy.

CS: Sea Salt and Orchid, Black Sea, Oakmoss and Amber, Caribbean Teakwood Peak: Fudge Brownie Starting to sample pumpkin scents for autumn. So far, Peak's Pumpkin Honey Chai is at the top of the list but unless I find a replacement elsewhere... RIP. Runner up is EBB Sweet Pumpkin.

I guess I should have titled this thread "coconut testing woes". New testers are going. So far, the LX wicks are somewhat cooler and less... aggressive(?). Unfortunately, the flames are a little too tall and mushroomed before the second hour on the first burn; LX 14 and 18 mushrooming more than 16. I'm certain 16 and 18 will reach FMP by the third hour. The ROC seems a bit high as well but definitely less than the CD's. All three are producing soot and the flames are dancing now that they've mushroomed. Although an improvement over the CD's, these don't seem to be a good match for this wax. I'll order some RRD's and HTP's. This wax is surprisingly soft when set and watery when melted. I think I need a wick that has a tight, hot flame and slower wicking. Any suggestions on where I can find a supplier that carries sample packs of both RRD and HTP?

I anticipate having to wick up once FO is added. I'm just trying to determine the type of wick and get a general idea of what size to start with for that diameter of jar. When I worked with ECO wicks, I usually tested two sizes - the base size for that container diameter and one size up in case the FO was too heavy. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find many resources on wick performance in coconut blends or sizing suggestions, so I assumed it was a "natural" wax (it's coconut and apricot!) and would take the same wick used for soy. Apparently, that (supposedly) small percentage of paraffin made all the difference... LX wicks should arrive tomorrow. Hopefully, I'll have a new batch to test Friday. Since the diameter of the jars is 2.75", I'm thinking I'll try LX 14, 16, 18. I read somewhere around here that a CD 20 should work in a 4" jar of coconut wax, so I may give that a try as well.

After growing tired of finicky ECO wicks and reading how CD wicks seem to be more popular, I've decided to give CD's a try. Unfortunately, there have been issues that I can not seem to solve. Currently, I'm testing in both GW 464 and Candlewic's coconut/apricot blend waxes. The jars used are Peak's medium danube status jars (discontinued), which have a diameter of 2.75" (give or take a hair). The wick sizes are: CD 6, CD 8, and CD 10. Each tester is FO-free because I'm trying to find a base wick size to work from once I start testing FO's. In the GW 464 testers, the results were as anticipated. CD 6 and CD 10 mushroomed within the first two hours. CD 8 had slight mushrooming towards the fourth hour. Flame height and melt pool depth was as expected in all three, although the CD 6 flame was a bit smaller. CD 10 left a small amount of residue on the glass, while both CD 8 and CD 6 had hang up on the third burn. I know I'm not supposed to reach a FMP on the first two burns, but I figure if the CD 6 isn't working then a smaller size isn't going to do any better. That is, if incomplete combustion is the cause of the mushrooming. CD 8 seems to be the winner here, and I'm hoping for a slower, cooler burn once FO is added. Now, on to the coconut wax. Same set up as the 464 testers, but the results were... surprising. The flames in all three were twice the size of those in the 464 testers. The rate of consumption was nearly double, as was the melt pool depth. Melt pool spread was the same. The flames were significantly hotter and brighter than those from the soy candles. CD 6 and CD 10 mushroomed early on. CD 8 performed better, but the flame height, ROC, and temperature caused it to fail the test. Given that, except for the mushrooming, there was little different between the three sizes, I'm hesitant to say that going down a size or two would help... I'm nearly out of CD sizes to wick down to. Due to the flame height/temperature issues, I decided to end the test early on the third burn because they had become a fire hazard at that point. Perhaps CD wicks are incompatible with the coconut wax? The wax was noticeably thinner than soy when poured and it is a terribly soft wax to begin with (shortening or butter from the fridge?). Has anyone worked with this wax before? Are there cooler, slower burning wicks? I'm almost tempted to give the ECO wicks a go in the coconut wax just for the heck of it. I do know that there is a small percentage of paraffin in this blend, so perhaps a wick designed for use in paraffin might work? If so, any brand suggestions?

I started with m&p soaps as a hobby three years ago. After having to deal with bars that sweat more than I do in these humid VA summers I had to call it quits. Eventually, I got into candlemaking. I've been lurking around the forum ever since. Lately, I've been trying new ingredients and techniques and have run into a few problems that I can't answer myself, and so it's time for me to stop lurking and join in hopes of learning something new. At lot of the forum members seem to be very knowledgeable and their crafts are fantastic. I'm looking forward to participating here! Borrowed these questions from the pinned thread above: What's your name? Jeff. How old are you? Old enough to play with candles. Where do you live? Hampton Roads, VA. How long have you been making candles/soap/whatever? This will be the third year. How did you get started making candles/soap/whatever? I began with m&p soaps and lotions but somehow got into candlemaking. It may have been the sticker shock while gift shopping at a certain store then deciding I could make them for less... I already knew how to use m&p soap, so how hard could candles have been. Now, I realize it's much more complicated than I originally thought, and it's quickly developing into an addiction of collecting FO's, testing wicks, and comparison shopping for containers. Are you married? Any kids? No. Do pets count as kids? If so, yes - one. If candle/Soap making isn't your primary job, what do you do? Professional forum lurker. Anything else we should know? Disclaimer: I have the occasional habit of writing long-winded, sometimes rambling posts. Read at your discretion.