BigRigg Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Ok so I am new to candle making but I spend hours a day researching and learning everything I can. I started off with igi 4630A and although its a mess to work with it seemed pretty good about sticking to the walls of the jars compared to this new wax I thought I would try, the 4786. I have melted and reached temps at 180 and poured at 180. I have melted and reached temps at 180 and poured at 160. 175 and poured at 160. I have let cure on the counter as normal and a few days later I get the bubbles where it pulls away from the jar. I tried letting it sit in the oven for 24 hours and that did not seem to help. Also wrapped the jars with a towel and now luck. Oh and the jars are preheated in the oven at the lowest temp of 170f and I remove them after about 3 minutes or so.These bubbles are really a turn off. Ive tried to go back over them with a heat gun but no luck.Any other advise anyone has would be much appreciated. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judy, USMC Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Just wondering if you are talking about actual air bubbles or are you trying to describe wet spots? (4786 is a 2 pour that has some shrinkage - notorius for pulling away from the sides.) Can you post a pic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candybee Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 If you are going to stick with paraffin wax you will need to learn to embrace wet spots. Even if you have a wax that doesn't leave any when you make them, they will eventually appear at some point. Its just the nature of the wax. You can try adding some petrolatum to your wax to make it softer but it will may also produce some soot or smoking.Air bubbles or air pockets?? Bubbles can be dimished by tapping on the side of the pour pot or waiting for them to rise to the top of the pot and disperse after you stir the wax. Air pockets are different. It means the wax shrunk around the wick and created an air pocket. These type air pockets need to be poked and filled with wax or melted with a heat gun to fill with wax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRigg Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) These pockets are just where the wax has solidified, shrunk and pulled away from the jar. I havent received any complaints yet but I personally dont like them or want them.Thinking about mixing a soy wax with this wax. Any thoughts about that?Here are a couple pictures of the candles with the 4786 wax and the pockets it leaves.http://imageshack.us/f/7/dscn11651.jpghttp://imageshack.us/f/17/dscn11661.jpg Edited July 6, 2012 by BigRigg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judy, USMC Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 With 4786 I do get wet spots - but the shape of those on the light colored candle is something I've never seen. I would make sure the inside of the jars has been pre-washed. I do pour hotter than you do - closer to 200 and also in pre-heated jars. 4786, as you can tell, is a 2-pour wax that shrinks as it solidifies. It will pull away from the jar wall and the wet spots will occur. They seem to vary in severity with the room temperature, too. I honestly don't know if experimenting with adding soy to this shrinking wax will be worth the time. Personally, if it bothered me, I'd switch to another paraffin. I stay with the 4786 because I love the scent throw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricofAZ Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) try a little coconut oil. Just a teaspoon in a pound. softens the wax and might reduce your wet spots.Slow down your cooling time. You tried that with the towel, slow it a bit more.One more thing, if none of that works, add a tad of vybar, and then a tad of microcrystoline wax. The micro wax comes in higher melt points than your 4786 so you have to use higher temps to mix, but it also is pretty elastic. Micro wax is used in carved or cut n curl candles to make the was pliable. You can get it at just about any supplier. 4786 is my favorite for container candles and I usually add a bit of vybar or micro. Edited July 6, 2012 by EricofAZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRigg Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 Thanks for the info. I didnt even think about the Vybar or other additives. Just curious about the coconut oil, would that affect the scent at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candybee Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Be careful with Vybar. It can lock up scent if you use too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puma52 Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 (edited) Hi BigRigg!!! Welcome to the world of 4786! I have used this wax since I began my business 12 years ago...it has never let me down and I LOVE it!!! I, however do NOT love the second pour, but I know that this is just something I have to deal with..so all is good. This is my process....wash and dry jars throughly. Put jars on warmer or in oven at 120 or lowest temp (until ready to wick and pour wax into). While jars are warming, melt your 4786. I heat my 4786 no higher than 160 and pour at 155 (If you superheat your wax above 180 the scent will burn off leaving you with less scent left in your wax.) But anyhow, place UV inhibitor powder and coloring in wax pot. Stir like crazy for a minute or two. Then I get my jars off the warmer and wick them. I use these babies: LOVE THEM!! You can get from WWW.BITTERCREEK.COM. They have single and mult wick setters.EZ Wick Setter Multi This handy tool makes wicking jars a breeze! Multi Wick Setter can be used with single, double or triple wicks! No more trouble centering those large 2 or 3 wick candles... this tool will give you perfect spacing quick and easy! Works well on apothecary jars, tureens and more! You won’t want to be without this tool! Multi Wick Setter does 16oz jelly jars, 8, 15 & 22oz Flat Lids Apoth, 12, 18 & 28oz Bubble Lid Apoth, 11, 16 & 26oz Country Kitchen, 18oz Bee Hive, 11 & 22oz Barrel, 8 & 16oz Cracker, 14 & 20oz Urn, 16 & 26oz Patio, 8, 16 & 26oz Country Comfort Jars. If your tool doesn't fit your container, send us your EZ Wick Setter™ and one of your containers, and we will modify it for only $12.95 (includes return shipping). Then I hurry back and add the scent into my wax and stir like crazy for up to a minute, minute and half and then pour into the warm jars. If you are placing your pot into a pan of water to melt your wax, before pouring make sure you wipe the bottom of the pot off to make sure that no water accidentally drips into your jars while pouring. But, after all this is you will still have those wet spots...make peace with them.... when I make my jars, the very last thing that I ever worry about is the wet spots and my customers feel the same way. Another EXCELLENT source of info is WWW.NATURESGARDEN.COM , on the left side bar go to the "free support" tab and there you will find quite a bit of info...candle making classes etc. So have fun making your candles and don't worry about the wet spots! It's ALLLLLLLLLL GOOD!!! :wave: Edited July 7, 2012 by puma52 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judy, USMC Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Peak carries IGI petrolium waxes and, if you click on the underlined wax name, will take you to a brief overview of the waxes IGI offers: www.peakcandle.com/category/Waxes/Paraffin-Wax.aspxAnd this link goes into a little more depth: www.bittercreeksouth.com/waxes.htm and includes more specific information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRigg Posted July 7, 2012 Author Share Posted July 7, 2012 A lot of good info here that I couldnt find elsewhere. Thanks!So my last pour was about three days ago and I let them sit in the warm oven right after heating the jars and let sit for 2 days. So far no wet spots (Im guessing thats wht these are called). Also there seems to be a problem with the scent throw when its burning. I didnt know if it was just me at first, thinking I was just getting immune to the smells or what. But a friend of mine burned the same candle and said she said it didnt fill the room like the other 2 she bought from me which was Wild Cherry and Warm Apple Pie in the 4630A wax all from Peak. So far I have been using 1 oz per lb or actually its been 2 oz FO per 30 oz of wax which makes 4 candles with some left over for re-pours.Any thoughts?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRigg Posted July 7, 2012 Author Share Posted July 7, 2012 A lot of good info here that I couldnt find elsewhere. Thanks!So my last pour was about three days ago and I let them sit in the warm oven right after heating the jars and let sit for 2 days. So far no wet spots (Im guessing thats wht these are called). Also there seems to be a problem with the scent throw when its burning. I didnt know if it was just me at first, thinking I was just getting immune to the smells or what. But a friend of mine burned the same candle and said she said it didnt fill the room like the other 2 she bought from me which was Wild Cherry and Warm Apple Pie in the 4630A wax all from Peak. So far I have been using 1 oz per lb or actually its been 2 oz FO per 30 oz of wax which makes 4 candles with some left over for re-pours.Any thoughts?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjdaines Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I use 4630 and not all FOs work as well as some other. Try a different supplier for that FO and see if it is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRigg Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 Im wondering if it has something to do with the 4786 wax. The Wild Cherry and Warm Apple Pie fragrances are the only 2 that I made with the 4630 wax, the rest have been with the 4786. Im going to make a Warm Apple Pie with the 4786 later to see if there is a difference. Thaaat brings up another question. lol Does everybody test fragrance in a full candle? Just wondering if I could test the fragrance with out having to pour a full candle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjdaines Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Im wondering if it has something to do with the 4786 wax. The Wild Cherry and Warm Apple Pie fragrances are the only 2 that I made with the 4630 wax, the rest have been with the 4786. Im going to make a Warm Apple Pie with the 4786 later to see if there is a difference. Thaaat brings up another question. lol Does everybody test fragrance in a full candle? Just wondering if I could test the fragrance with out having to pour a full candle?A test is only valid if you minimize the variable, changing one thing at a time is best. Testing a FO in a one wax tells you nothing about how it will perform in yet another wax. And, yes, testing in done in a full candle of the type that you want to use. A candle has roughly 3 parts to it's life; the beginning, the middle, and the end. The characteristics of those stages are different, especially in a container candle. Therefore, one must test the whole candle, from beginning to end to really know how it will burn and scent a room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricofAZ Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 A touch of coconut oil won't change the throw, but go light. One teaspoon per pound. I agree with the vybar, too much is bad. I think 4786 has some added in already so go light. just a pinch of pellets per pound. Like a half teaspoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRigg Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 I will try the vybar. Maybe the coconut oil too cause Im curious about that. I just dont understand the strong (meaning sniff it and pull away from your nose like whoa) smell but when burned, no excitement. None!?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricofAZ Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I've never smelled the coconut oil during a burn, but that doesn't mean much. Either it just doesn't have any scent throw, or it gets buried by the FO, or I just have a dead nose. Not sure what to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeanie353 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I've never smelled it during the burn either. I do use it in varying amounts depending whether I'm making containers or melts/votives because of the different waxes in both types. The highest I go with paraffin is 1 tsp pp wax. I don't see any difference in glass adhesion from it even though it changes the texture of the wax a very slight bit. My use is for smoother burn and a little kick for HT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRigg Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 Sorry, The last part of my last post was in reference to the HT with no additives in the wax. I do believe now after some troubleshooting that the wick may be to much for the candle and burning up the fragrance oil. I dug the wax out and put it in a glass bowl and put it on a candle warmer and the HT was great. So I assume it was the wicks. I ordered some LX 18's. So Im going to see if the HT is better with these. I had 44-24-18 Zinc Core which seemed good for the 4630 wax but not so much for the 4786.So Coconut oil will help give the FO a lil extra kick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grama Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) BigRigg I have been using 4786 for years and use cd wicks and never any problem with the throw. As far as pulling away from the jar that happens at times. For air bubbles pour slow and steady. hth Edited July 13, 2012 by grama to add Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRigg Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 I think what Im going to do is stay with the 4630 for right now and later on start testing more with the 4786. I think I have about 5 lbs left of the 4786 though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puma52 Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 (edited) Hey BigRigg!!I hope you give the 4786 another try down the road....it is GOOD stuff!! Gracious...I hope you still found the link even though I typed it wrong....WWW.NATURESGARDENCANDLES.COM . I'm sorry... I was very tired that night when typing. Have fun playing in the waxes !!! Edited July 14, 2012 by puma52 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRigg Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 I will later on when I can actually afford to do more tests. Right now I have less than $200 to work with and everybody is asking for candles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puma52 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 everybody is asking for candles.Such a great thing to have happening to you!!! Hope you sell tons!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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