Wick Adhesive / Removal of Wicks after testing

[tlc]

We won't tell - pinky promise!!

Thanks, I knew I could count on like minded addicts.

Pam, how do you put/get it on the wick tabs? When I was admiring it at the craft store I noticed it came in one of those round plastic containers with a flip top type lid. I remember thinking, I wonder how they use this stuff. You don't just dip your finger in there and pull out a gob and slap it on the tab do ya?

[Pam W]

It's to tackey (hehe) to use your finger but I have been known to use the back of a fingernail. Usually use the tip of a plastic knife or spoon and sometimes (more often that not!!) I dip some out with one corner of the wick bar.

[ksranch]

Thanks so much Pam! Next trip to the big city, I'm getting some!

[rjdaines]

I've been using Tacky Wax for a while to stick the wick to the bottom of testers and clean up afterwards was very easy. Just a little heat and a wipe. Now, I find I add a lot more tension on the wick during the pour and cooling, especially if I want to twist it and sometimes the Tacky Wax lets go. This prompts the use of some rather bad language and stress levels that are not healthy. I am now using hot glue in situations where I need to tighten and twist. Post-burn clean up is harder but not too bad. Heat gun, pop off tab, and wipe.

[jeanie353]

I am now using hot glue in situations where I need to tighten and twist. Post-burn clean up is harder but not too bad. Heat gun, pop off tab, and wipe.

Same here....I twist CDs and HTPs and the high temp hot glue has held them tight. Usually will put in candle warmer to loosen up and then just wipe down jar and wick tab comes right out with the wax. Will be interesting if the tacky wax will hold when I twist. I'm going to try using micro tacky wax that I have here for now and if it doesn't hold will try Yaley. Normally, I don't secure the wicks in testing until I'm into final testing phase but will pour a few to try out the tacky.

[jennie12]

I'm new to this, but I usually warm jars in the oven, remove them, wick and pour. With the permatex and having to wick 12 hours in advance of pouring, is it still okay to warm jars in the oven? A while ago I tried wicking ahead of time in an effort to streamline my process, but I found that by putting the wicked jars in the oven, wick performance changed drastically and I speculated it was due to the wick coating melting off while I was warming the jars. Any thoughts?

[Pam W]

I don't know if the Tacky Wax will hold up to oven-heating. I just warm my jars with a quick blast from the heat gun.

[Stella1952]

With the permatex and having to wick 12 hours in advance of pouring, is it still okay to warm jars in the oven?

Permatex Gasket Maker is rated to perform up to 600°F. I have warmed wicked jars in the oven with no problem, but when I say "warm" I am talking warm - no more than about 110°F. I do not leave containers in the oven for any longer than it takes to warm the glass. I can handle them with no discomfort when they come out.

A while ago I tried wicking ahead of time in an effort to streamline my process, but I found that by putting the wicked jars in the oven, wick performance changed drastically and I speculated it was due to the wick coating melting off while I was warming the jars. Any thoughts?

It's certainly possible. If you are using wicks with high temp wax coating, the wick wax may become soft but it should not melt off. I think you are warming your jars to too high a temperature. Are you using an oven thermometer to check the temp?

Another solution to warming the glassware is to immerse the container in warm water (temperature of hot dishwater) just below the top of the container. This can be dicey because the containers will try to float (depending on the size, height & weight), but if you are careful and place the containers together tightly, it works fine. I have an old water bath canner with a wire rig in which containers fit that I use for this purpose.

Still another solution is to warm the jars in a roaster oven that is prewarmed to a little over 100°F. The key to using ovens for glassware is to warm the oven to the desired temperature and then turn it off. This should take only a few minutes. Don't leave the containers in there to stay warm. The idea is to simply warm the container from ambient room temp (65-70°F) to the point that the "chill" is knocked off the glassware. The glass should not be heated thoroughly or too warm to handle comfortably. To give you an idea, I warm glassware in the oven in the cardboard carton in which the glassware was shipped. The carton never even becomes *crispy.* To keep the containers warm before they are poured, I cover the carton with a towel.

I also have used an old electric warming tray. I put a thin towel on the surface, put the glassware on it, then cover with a towel. It takes only a few minutes to warm the glassware sufficiently.

If an adhesive won't handle oven warming, I doubt it will keep its bond well enough to keep the wick tab sealed 100% of the time when the candle is liquid at the end of a candle. Temps of 150-200°F are common at the end of a container (depending on ambient room temp). Not every wick tab will unseal (hot glue) at the end of the candle but it will happen enough of the time that I choose to use an adhesive that will not soften at higher temperatures. Once is one too many IMHO. The photo I posted above is not the only time I have seen this phenomenon with other adhesives. It has happened with soy wax as well.

When it comes to product safety, I don't take chances. Since I supply my sons with candles, I have a vested interest in their safety. Considering the condition of a few of the containers my younger son has returned to me, the ONLY thing that prevented a glass failure or fire was the wick tab holding fast and self-extinguishing at the correct point. You'd think he'd know better, but he is my best "customer from hell" torture tester. If HE hasn't set one of my candles on fire or caused it to shatter, NO ONE ever will!! He actually bitched once (and only once!) that the candle went out "before the wax was all gone." :rolleyes2 I think the word "moron" escaped my lips when I responded... :lipsrseal I gave him a hurricane in which to burn his candles, which may account for his not burning his place down. To be fair, he HAS learned over the years to be more attentive... (proof that young males CAN learn) :smiley2:

[HorseScentS]

I'm new to this, but I usually warm jars in the oven, remove them, wick and pour. With the permatex and having to wick 12 hours in advance of pouring, is it still okay to warm jars in the oven? A while ago I tried wicking ahead of time in an effort to streamline my process, but I found that by putting the wicked jars in the oven, wick performance changed drastically and I speculated it was due to the wick coating melting off while I was warming the jars. Any thoughts?

I use the Red Permatex to wick my jars. The next day, I heat the wicked jars in a 170 degree oven and quickly remove them right before I pour into them. I haven't had any problems.

If you heat your jars first and then wick them, it lets the jars cool down too much, and your wax could cool down too much too. It's too time consuming and stressful to wick after heating and just before pouring; I think it throws off your timing and temperatures.

Edited February 28, 2012 by HorsescentS

[Stella1952]

If you heat your jars first and then wick them, it lets the jars cool down too much

Your jars do not need to be that hot. All that is necessary is to knock off the chill. This is one of those techniques that has been puffed up beyond reason and utility.

[HorseScentS]

Your jars do not need to be that hot. All that is necessary is to knock off the chill. This is one of those techniques that has been puffed up beyond reason and utility.

Does the temperature of the jar when the wax is poured affect the adhesion of wax to glass?

[Stella1952]

Does the temperature of the jar when the wax is poured affect the adhesion of wax to glass?

Very little, in my experience. "Wet spots" will come and go as the candle is stored and burned, depending on environmental conditions that are not dependent on what happens during pouring. Cleaning the glass of manufacturing residue is more important. Do the best you can to encourage adhesion, but realize that preparations during pouring are not the only factor. The ambient temperature & atmospheric pressure have more to do with "wet spot" formation than does heating the glassware to temperatures higher than one can comfortably handle with bare hands. Somewhere in the 100°-110°F area (pleasantly warm to arthritic hands) is beneficial but beyond that is no gain and even problematic if the wick wax is melted or the adhesive softens. More is not better in this case. HTH Edited February 28, 2012 by Stella1952

[jennie12]

I think you are warming your jars to too high a temperature. Are you using an oven thermometer to check the temp?

I think you're right. I'm using my toaster oven, and it really doesn't heat up at all if I set it lower than the "warm" setting, which is around 150. So, I'll have to find a way to knock that back to 100-110.

If an adhesive won't handle oven warming, I doubt it will keep its bond well enough to keep the wick tab sealed 100% of the time when the candle is liquid at the end of a candle.

The adhesives I've used (wick stick 'ems and hot glue) actually handle the warmer oven temp just fine, it's just that the wicks were performing differently - basically wilting toward the beginning of the burn. But, I'm going to switch to permatex anyway, just to be on the safe side.

It's too time consuming and stressful to wick after heating and just before pouring; I think it throws off your timing and temperatures.

Agreed.

Thanks for all the great information!

[chuck_35550]

Here's my procedure: Turn on melter, place clean jars in toaster over at 150 degrees and prepare my wicks by placing a small square of 3m mounting adhesive on each one and have my craft sticks with drilled holes, thumb clips, fos and any dye lined up and read to go. My pour pot is warmed on the double burner and my fo shot glass is warmed as well. I tare out my pour pot and fill with hot wax and place back on the burner and put in a temp probe and begin mixing in fo and color while keeping my temp constant at 185 degrees. I take out a jar pop a wick in and clip into place and tare out on the scale and pour up the wax and place it in the cooling box. I usually pour two cases in an hour and then cover and let cool slowly. Wicks will melt when exposed to the heat and not perform properly. IMHO

Steve

[jennie12]

prepare my wicks by placing a small square of 3m mounting adhesive on each one

is this adhesive strong enough for candles that would be sold or only for testers?

Wicks will melt when exposed to the heat and not perform properly. IMHO

it's good to hear that someone else feels this way. there was a massive difference in wicks that had been in the warm oven.

[bart70]

Interesting topic....I recall not that long ago being ridiculed on a local forum for making the comment that I did not use normal hot glue because I have found it melts and the tab moves, particularly with palm containers. Thankfully the level of maturity is much higher on this forum. :smiley2:

When I started testing palm containers I was using hot glue (not specifically the high temp variety...more the craft variety). One one the major suppliers here in Oz supplies metros with a slightly 'convex' bottom. In testing, when my melt pool got to the bottom, I had a number of wick tabs 'slide' down the hill so speak....resulting in several jars cracking and breaking because the flame had landed up against the glass wall. Further testing revealed that the hot glue melted, and became very slippery under the tab - assisting it to move outward to the edge of the glass.

Since then I made 2 changes - one was to use a supplier of better quality glassware that had flat internal floors (if glue softens the tab is less likely to slide around if it is flat), and the other was to source a better means of securing my tabs.

Like others here, I came up with a Permatex type product - except I tried a number of the cheaper varieties marketed under lesser known names. I found they would hold up to the heat without any issues. From memory about $3.95 will do approx 24 dozen jars.

For testing purposes, I found that if I grip the tab with a pair of pliers and give the jar a sharp twist, the tab will let go. It will not always lift off the glue material on the bottom, but I am able to re-glue another tab over it. Definitely suitable for testing purposes.

The glue holds great - I have never had one let go and have more problems with wicks pulling out of tabs once hot wax is poured in, than I do with tabs coming off or moving.

HTH

Bart

[Stella1952]

I recall not that long ago being ridiculed on a local forum for making the comment that I did not use normal hot glue because I have found it melts and the tab moves, particularly with palm containers. Thankfully the level of maturity is much higher on this forum.

At least you tried. Pictures don't lie but until some folks actually personally witness a phenomenon, they have a tough time believing it can occur and I can understand this. Some folks don't routinely torture test their candles. Still others extinguish the candles manually rather than wait to see if the wicktab will do its job of self-extinguishing when the wax level drops below the top of the tab. Still others reason that one out of every X number of candles is an acceptable failure rate. It's a PITA to have to prewick with RTV sealant, no argument, and some folks are unwilling to change their production methods. Different strokes for different folks... Like you, I err on the side of customer safety.

prepare my wicks by placing a small square of 3m mounting adhesive on each one

is this adhesive strong enough for candles that would be sold or only for testers?

3M mounting squares failed miserably in my tests, especially if the containers are not carefully prewashed. I even cleaned the adhesive area on the jar and the bottom of the wicktab with alcohol and allowed it to dry before wicking and I really pushed on the wicktab to be sure it was seated well. I gave them every chance to work because I really WANTED them to work (far easier and I am very into easy). The bond also is not strong enough for me to twist wicks, although I did test some untwisted. I do occasionally use them for testing if I am in a hurry and my hot glue pot is not heated up...