Flame out of control

[ChandlerWicks]

HorseScents Be good! I guess I should put a LOL in there somewhere.

Oh? Hmmm...

Edited January 16, 2012 by ChandlerWicks

[HorseScentS]

HorseScents Be good! I guess I should put a LOL in there somewhere.

:laugh2:okay...okay...:laugh2:

[ksranch]

Thanks for the update HW - since the other wicks did it too, well that certainly says something!

[ChandlerWicks]

:laugh2:okay...okay...:laugh2:

[coconut]

Hardwood_wickster, when you burned the cotton wicks, did the flame just get large or did the entire jar catch on fire like with the wood wick?

[Hardwood Wickster]

The reaction was the same it was just about 20 seconds longer before the reaction or heat kicked in... it kept getting larger then took off by igniting the wax.. flames were about 3" tall and spreading across the top of the wax.... it was at that point i blew it out before it got out of control. The "event" candle is the only one where it all went up (as seen in the pic), as it was in the customer hands and already out of control once he realized what was going on... all my inventory, etc from this same batch was heading that way when i lit them as it would had continued to get hotter and hotter as it burnt more wax had i kept them lit too, no doubt.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Hardwood Wickster

[001]

Is this by any chance lemon verbena from CS? I'm playing around with it to see if I can get mine to ignite too, so far no luck but I don't use paraffin, though I do have 4630 in the house.

[BlancaD]

HW, I applaud you for all of your determination and hardwork at finding the rootcause of your problem candle..you have a passion for candlemaking and it shows..I wish you luck and I hope you continue to have success with all of your other candles.. I know things like this drive you nuts until a solution is found I also applaud your creating/testing your own wicks, that is awesome..you are an innovator of sorts:) I am glad you posted this problem because we all learn..I only make tarts at the moment but all the information provided is greatly appreciated...we are only human and things happen we can never be too careful, don't let those things stop you from being a success..to live is to learn..God Bless

[coconut]

The reaction was the same it was just about 20 seconds longer before the reaction or heat kicked in... it kept getting larger then took off by igniting the wax.. flames were about 3" tall and spreading across the top of the wax.... it was at that point i blew it out before it got out of control. The "event" candle is the only one where it all went up (as seen in the pic), as it was in the customer hands and already out of control once he realized what was going on... all my inventory, etc from this same batch was heading that way when i lit them as it would had continued to get hotter and hotter as it burnt more wax had i kept them lit too, no doubt.

That sure is scary. I use 4630, not 4627, but I have noticed that if I let a candle sit for a very long time, if there is too much FO or it is poorly mixed (these were my early experiments) that some of the FO will separate out. I'm not sure how else you can find out if their was too much FO.

I don't do wood wicks and have never burned one. I have heated with a wood stove, and I know wood can be highly variable. How do you determine what size of wick to use? Off the top of my head I would have said those sizes of cotton were perhaps too large for the jar and I have seen some wicked flame with overwicking. An unproven theory is that different parts of the country and different sea levels demand different size wicks. I am almost at sea level and always have to use smaller wicks than everybody else recommends. Just rambling here....

[Tom30601]

I wanted to jump in here and offere a few comments as well as ask a few questions, as I am researching using wood wicks in a very specific offering.

I make a lot of candles using CS Lemon Verbena at 9% load in Ecosoya CB-Xcel with HTP wicks and have never had a flame out as is being described. I also make a lot of tealights, and have had no problems. I have had some beading in warm weather, but the HTP wicks never seemed to produce enough heat to ignite the oil -- I even tried with a lighter, and it was absorbedd into the melt pool and didn't bead again after the first burn. CS Lemon Verbena is my #2 best seller after CS Oakmoss and Amber. I also using NG Lemon Grass and CS Lime Cooler to round out my "strong citrus" group. All have behaved quite well.

Now, I did try CS Lemon Verbena in CS Glassglow Palm Wax, and it worked fine in glass tumblers and tins, but flamed out in tealights -- actually melting the tealight cups within seconds. Never did that again.

As for overloading a batch, I have almost done that. This is the process I came up with to prevent that from happening, as I make a lot of candles each day and work with a lot of batches and oils (I do all my meauring in metric because it is just so much easier as far as math is concerned):

1. I draw off 1000g of wax at 180F into a 4-lb pour pot (total weight is about 1250g), insert a thermometer, and let it cool to about 150F.

2. I remove the thermometer, add 90g FO (total weight now about 1340g), and stir constantly for 2 minutes with a metal wisk.

3. I leave the wisk in the mixture, return the thermometer, and allow it to cool to about 125F.

4. I remove the wisk, remove the thermometer, check the total weight to make sure it is correct, and then pour.

The reason I leave the wisk in is to remind me that I have already added oil. The reason I check the total weight one last time is that I sometimes get busy and accidently remove the wisk after I have added the oil. The biggest mistake I have almost made in the past was adding oil twice, and this system caught it. If you are making lots of batches during one candle making session, it is probably helpful to come up with some sort of system that you can easily implement to avoid overloading. Also, using metric measurements -- that is, grams -- is SO much easier than pounds and ounces.

Okay, about wood wicks. One thought/question I had was about the possibility of the wood actually absorbing some of the FO. Now, if the wax can successfully hold the amount of FO you added, then this probably isn't an issue; but, if you overloaded the FO by accident OR if the FO is leaching out of the wax due to beading, is it possible that the wood wick absorbed some of the oil. If that is possible, with the wood wick being larger than the cotton wick, maybe it absorbed a good bit of the excess FO and it was the combination of the wood and FO that caused the initial large flame, producing much more heat than normal, and thus exceeding the flashpoint of the oil/wax. Now, once you extinguished the flame, the hot wood could allow any oil still in the wood to evaporate off. Combine that with the excess oil being absorbed back into the melt pool, it could explain why the candle burned fine the second time you lit it. A cotton wick would probably behave the same, only it is small and thus can't absorb as much oil and therefore burns off the excess faster -- before it can become a blow torch.

The one test I would have done that I don't think you did -- and it is a test I have done before, is if you see oil pooling or beading on top of the candle, see if you can ignite by holding a lighter to to -- one of those long ones so you can keep your hand away from the candle. I have tried this many times, and have never managed to ignture the beads of oil, but I think it would be worth a test.

I'm thinking that, when I test wood wicks, I might lower the FO load on oils with low flashpoints, especially ones that I have seen beading before. I was also planning on testing the ones from http://www.unitywoodenwicks.com/index.html, so we will see how it works.

Just my two cents worth... good luck.