Tom30601

I know this thread is a bit old, but I wanted to pass along something I recently discovered. Last fall, I was making some votives and tarts over a couple week period with Ecosoya PB, and everything was fine. No problems. I then cleaned out my melting pot and went back to pouring container candles through Christmas. After Christmas, I needed to restock on tarts, so I melted a fresh batch of PB wax and went to work. Funny enough, there were the problems described above the next day -- cracking, not good appearance, etc. I then made another batch, with no problems. It occurred to me that in both the fall and now, I melted down some PB, then it cooled back to solid overnight, and then I melted it again before using it to make tarts. When I remelted and repoured the messed up tarts, they were fine. It is possible that PB might need to be "tempered" before using it. I now don't go straight from the box to melting and pouring; but instead, melt a pot down one day (no FO or dye), let it cool to solid overnight, and then remelt it, draw off what I need, add FO and dye, then pour. My votives and tarts are all much better, and I have noticed fewer problems with the votives having air pockets. Just a thought.

On one level, I agree with Old Crab on this one. I used to fight the battles with wet spots, but gave up once I realized that if it is cold enough in my workspace to cause wet spots, it will be cold enough in shops and in customers homes to have them show up after they leave my place. In fact, I have seen plenty of examples where "perfect" candles left my shop, only to be left in the trunk of a car overnight and then put on shop shelves the next day. I try to discourage this, but to no avail. Nowadays, I just focus on the appearance of the top because I do have some control over it, AND I work on scent throw. As for pre-heating the glass, I found that didn't really help a lot, and almost seemed to make the issue worse. It seems like pouring when the glass is at room temperature when the wax is cooler (120-125F) have me the best results. That was when I used GB464, CB-Advanced or CB-Xcel. I never tried with C3. I think the adhesion issue comes from the fact that as the wax cools and condenses, it shrinks just a touch (more obvious with pillar blends) and pulls the solidified wax from the sides (the sides are cool longer before the center). If you can keep the sides and center cooling at a more steady pace, then there is less shrinkage. I think pouring at cooler temperatures helps. I realized this when pouring tealights -- with 800g of wax I could fill to the top 58 tealights at 130F or 54 tealights at 120F. The starting quantities of wax and oil were identifical, but the temperature at which I started pouring was 10F different. And, of course, the finished tealights were about 1g lighter on average. So clearly, there was about a 7% shrinkage in the volume of the wax as it cooled from 130F to 120F. That could account for why the wax is pulled from the side of a larger candle.

Thanks for the tip. I just got 2 cases of GB464 to give it a try, so I might start with a blend to see how it goes. Unfortunately, I am in Europe, and can't find a GB distributor here, just Ecosoya. I can only get GB when I add it to a larger shipment of goods so that it comes by ocean freight.

Yes, I have tried that one. Bought it for seling at a cherry festival last Summer. It did pretty well. I have added to my test group that I sell in my shop to see if folks like it on a regular basis. It is about the best cherry that I have found, but still reminds me of children's Robitussin when it first came out. Hopefully, that will just be my problem ;-)

We use NG's Blackberry Fizz, and people seem to like the result. We tried others, but they smelled more like a pie or something -- too sweet. This one is fresh, and has a nice throw in CB-Xcel. Now, if I could just find a good cherry that doesn't smell like a pie or remind me of cough syrup from my childhood, I'd be really happy! (Don't reply to this, I don't want to hijack the thread)

I'm using a different wax than you (Ecosoya CB-Xcel), but I did have a surge in cratering and holes when the temperatures really dropped here during Christmas. It was frustrating at times, because I normally have really smooth tops. I also found it to be somewhat random. Even when pouring a single batch of 8oz tumblers, some would be perfect and others would crater and still others would crater and get holes. I tried all sorts of combinations, but kept getting mixed results. My suspicians are that the bottom and sides of the candle are cooling faster than the centers, and this is impacting the density of the wax - more dense where the cooling is slower, and thus it is shrinking down. I don't know, just a guess. Anyway, I switched to the double pour, but I found that I could pour a thin layer at about 130F around 2 hours after the initial pour, and the results would be VERY smooth tops that were nicely bound to the original pour. I would pour very slowly - almost a drizzle -- until the wax reached the edge of the container and then I would stop. There was no noticeable line on the sides, and the throw and burn were not impacted. The only "issue" I had from time-to-time is that the 130F wax melted enough of the initial pour to expose a pocket I hadn't seen, and very tiny airbubles would come up. I found that I could easily smooth them out with my fingers the nexy morning with impacting the appearance (the heat gun would probably work, too). I am looking forward to warmer weather, that's for sure!

I get a lot of my bottles form SKS Bottle & Packaging, Inc. They have pretty much every bottle you can imagine ina wide variety of materials (PET, HDPE, LDPE, Glass, etc.) and colors (Amber, Green, Blue, Clear, etc.). I also like that you can buy the tops and bottles separately at bulk prices, which can save a bit of money and give you more options. Worth a look.

I use Ecosoya CB-Xcel, and have had a lot of success with HTP93 wicks in the 6oz tins -- assuming you are talking about the deep ones rather than the flat ones. With some oils, I do drop it down to HTP83. I've also tested with CSN and ECO wicks, but both had too much hang. HTP93s sometimes leave a little hang, but I find I get better melting and consumption if I fill only to the crimp line, which is about 110g to 120g. If I fill it too full, it does seem to tunnel a bit. I believe this is because the heat isn't enough to get to the edges when the flame is exposed to side drafts (every room has a little draft in it). We average about 35 hours of burn time, with none burning less than 30 and some fragrances burning more than 40. We recently consolidated our offering to only have the 6oz tins, and it working well (we used to have 4oz, 6oz and 8 oz tins, which created inventory headaches). Anyway, you might want to give the HTP wicks a try if you are having any problems with the ECO or CSN wicks.

Oakmoss and Amber from CS is our biggest seller. I can't keep it in stock. I've been buying it 25 pounds at a time, and people just go crazy for it. We make tins, tumblers, votives, tealights and wax melts from it. Just an amazing fragrance. I think I could probably put Oakmoss and Amber in any container, and it would sell. Just an amazing add to our offering. If I could find 10 or 20 more fragrances that are THAT popular, it would be great. Lemon Verbena from CS is our biggest selling citrus. People really like it because it doesn't have that "fake" lemon smell (like furniture polish -- hate that). We are testing more and more CS fragrances these days, as most of them are really good quality. I use a lot from Nature's Garden, too. I've tried a few other suppliers, but NG and CS are my primary ones and I am REALLY happy with the service we get. Heather at CS is one of the best, if you ask me.

I wanted to jump in here and offere a few comments as well as ask a few questions, as I am researching using wood wicks in a very specific offering. I make a lot of candles using CS Lemon Verbena at 9% load in Ecosoya CB-Xcel with HTP wicks and have never had a flame out as is being described. I also make a lot of tealights, and have had no problems. I have had some beading in warm weather, but the HTP wicks never seemed to produce enough heat to ignite the oil -- I even tried with a lighter, and it was absorbedd into the melt pool and didn't bead again after the first burn. CS Lemon Verbena is my #2 best seller after CS Oakmoss and Amber. I also using NG Lemon Grass and CS Lime Cooler to round out my "strong citrus" group. All have behaved quite well. Now, I did try CS Lemon Verbena in CS Glassglow Palm Wax, and it worked fine in glass tumblers and tins, but flamed out in tealights -- actually melting the tealight cups within seconds. Never did that again. As for overloading a batch, I have almost done that. This is the process I came up with to prevent that from happening, as I make a lot of candles each day and work with a lot of batches and oils (I do all my meauring in metric because it is just so much easier as far as math is concerned): 1. I draw off 1000g of wax at 180F into a 4-lb pour pot (total weight is about 1250g), insert a thermometer, and let it cool to about 150F. 2. I remove the thermometer, add 90g FO (total weight now about 1340g), and stir constantly for 2 minutes with a metal wisk. 3. I leave the wisk in the mixture, return the thermometer, and allow it to cool to about 125F. 4. I remove the wisk, remove the thermometer, check the total weight to make sure it is correct, and then pour. The reason I leave the wisk in is to remind me that I have already added oil. The reason I check the total weight one last time is that I sometimes get busy and accidently remove the wisk after I have added the oil. The biggest mistake I have almost made in the past was adding oil twice, and this system caught it. If you are making lots of batches during one candle making session, it is probably helpful to come up with some sort of system that you can easily implement to avoid overloading. Also, using metric measurements -- that is, grams -- is SO much easier than pounds and ounces. Okay, about wood wicks. One thought/question I had was about the possibility of the wood actually absorbing some of the FO. Now, if the wax can successfully hold the amount of FO you added, then this probably isn't an issue; but, if you overloaded the FO by accident OR if the FO is leaching out of the wax due to beading, is it possible that the wood wick absorbed some of the oil. If that is possible, with the wood wick being larger than the cotton wick, maybe it absorbed a good bit of the excess FO and it was the combination of the wood and FO that caused the initial large flame, producing much more heat than normal, and thus exceeding the flashpoint of the oil/wax. Now, once you extinguished the flame, the hot wood could allow any oil still in the wood to evaporate off. Combine that with the excess oil being absorbed back into the melt pool, it could explain why the candle burned fine the second time you lit it. A cotton wick would probably behave the same, only it is small and thus can't absorb as much oil and therefore burns off the excess faster -- before it can become a blow torch. The one test I would have done that I don't think you did -- and it is a test I have done before, is if you see oil pooling or beading on top of the candle, see if you can ignite by holding a lighter to to -- one of those long ones so you can keep your hand away from the candle. I have tried this many times, and have never managed to ignture the beads of oil, but I think it would be worth a test. I'm thinking that, when I test wood wicks, I might lower the FO load on oils with low flashpoints, especially ones that I have seen beading before. I was also planning on testing the ones from http://www.unitywoodenwicks.com/index.html, so we will see how it works. Just my two cents worth... good luck.

Do you remember what company it was in Lithuania that made candles in those jars? I live in Lithuania and manufacture soy candles here -- one of the only ones doing so -- and haven't seen those jars anywhere, or heard of anyone using them. If there is a source overhere, I'd like to know because I would like to use the AND I might be able to arrange to export them to the U.S. for y'all to use (yes, I'm originally from Georgia, so I still use y'all).

I see no one replied to your post, so I thought I would. I make a lot of tealights, both scented and unscented. CUPS: I use the polycarbonate clear cups. Make sure you buy these from a reputable supplier (I buy from CandleScience) because quality can be an issue --- bad ones can actually melt or burn (I have never had this problem with CS cups). I don't like the metal cups because they look like the cheap ones you buy in dollar stores. The clear ones are nice, especially when burning, and look good inside tealight holders, especially glass ones. WAX: I was originally using EcoSoya CB-Adv, but have now switched to CB-Xcel with great results. I also have some GW464 to test, but have not had a chance. I did some testing with PB wax, but it was a hit-or-miss with quality of burn -- maybe too high of a melt point? Palm was a complete failure, as the heat from burning palm wax was enough to melt the cups -- and they burned fast (as a note, I like palm and was hoping for succcess). WICKS: Most companies sell TL wicks for tealights. With soy, I found these don't work except for certain fragrances and color combinations. The TL wick starts great, but it is as if someone turned off a switch at one-hour, and they choke to the point where the flame dies or is barely there (this revelation caused me to have to rewick 5000 tealights). I did a lot of testing (20+ wicks in all), and found that custom wicks made with LX-10 or LX-12 worked the best for CB-Advanced, and CSN-7 from CandleScience worked best with CB-Xcel. I still have a few fragrances -- mostly Christmas one and mostly dyed red -- that still require TL wicks, so I keep a few on hand. The problem with custom wicks is that there is usually a minimum order. if the minimum order is too big and you just want to make a few, consider buying regular wick assemblies and some 15x3 bases, and making your own -- that's how I tested. It is a bit tedious, but you can do it while watching TV at night. Once I was sure of which wicks I wanted to use, I ordered pre-made custom ones. FO: For what it is worth, TLs are our best sellers, and FOs that don't work in regular candles seem to work amazing well in TLs -- maybe it is the nature of the burn. I have used up many "failed" oils by making TLs and selling out of them to the point where I now have TL-only fragrances. TESTING: You will have to test every fragrance/color combination, as wicking will be different for each. I have 5 different wicks I test for every fragrance/color combination, and then choose the one the burns the best (5+ hours, 95% of wax) and then an alternate, just in case I run out of one kind of wick. POURING and WICKING: I pour tealights with a slightly higher wax temperature than I do my regular candles, as you want the liquid to flow easily, or pouring can be tough. I make batches of 700g (~1.5 pounds) with 6-9% FO, depending on the fragrance. Using a 4-pound pout, I pour at 125-130F while the wax is still thin and clear (if you use a smaller pot with this size batch, you will find that the fuller pot doesn't want to pour as easily and the wax travels down the side). Each cups takes about 14g (~.5 ounces), so you should get 48-50 tealights per batch. After all 50 cups are poured, I wick them when the wax just turns a bit cloudy. I simply pre-straighten the wick, place it into the cup, and center it (the CS cups have a depression for where the wick goes, which maks it easy). IF, by chance, a batch sets up before you can wick it, they can be easily remelted in the microwave (you'll need to test power/time/quantity to see what works best --- I usually do 8 at a time at 50% for 90 seconds in a 1000W MW), and then wicked as normal, with no significant loss in performance (another reason to use polycarbonate rather than metal cups). LABELING: I use 1.2" round labels from OnlineLabels.com or one of the others, if they are having a sale. If you aren't going to have different fragrances, you can skip the labeling, but I find it looks nicer to cover the bottom because you can see the wick base. There are 48 labels to each sheet, so that works well with the batch size. Tealights have become big business for us, because it allows people to try out what we make without spending a lot of money. Once they are happy, they almost always come back and buy tins, tumblers or mason jars. We find people like to pick and choose from the 100+ fragrances we have an make their own sets (there are several good sources for boxes... we started with kraft jewelry boxes from several companies, but have since settled on boxes from Sunshine Candle and Soap Boxes). Making tealights can be boring, but also relaxing. The process seems to be the opposite of making regular container candles, where large quantities require a lot of prep but very little time to pour and finish. For tealights, set up is quick, but it takes longer to pour and wick because of doing small batches, and finishing takes longer because you'll have to clean wax from bottoms and sides that spilled over while pouring and then there is the labeling. I hope all this helps -- and good luck!

As the candle burns down, I get a little hang up on the side -- not much, until the candle is about 50% burned. At this point, I think the shape of the container begins to hold the heat, and the sides become very clean. We usually burn either a 102 or a 103 (18 oz) Whisper in our studio, and the finished candle is very clean -- leaves about 10 grams of unused wax in the bottom below the wick tab. In fact, these are the candles we use to show how clean soy wax burns. As a side note, we also make a lot of 478 Status and 807 Interlude jars, and both achieve the same effect using an HTP104. Unfortunately, I don't have a burned down one right now -- we just finished one the other day and I have already refilled it. I'll take a picture of this one as we burn it down, just to give a point of reference.

I've recently been making a very large quantity of the Libbey 102 (12oz Whispter jars) a Christmas charity, and find I have the best results with the following using Ecosoya CB-Advanced: - I heat the wax to 180 in a double boiler, the draw off what I need for a particular batch. - I immediately add my liquid candle dye (NG Spectrum), and the allow the wax to cool to 150. - I add my FO, typically an NG Christmas scent at 9% by weight, and allow it to cool to around 120-125. - I pour into a pre-wicked Libbey 102, up to the shoulder where the lid is inserted. For most FOs, I use an HTP105 that give a full melt pool after 2 hours, at about 3/8" deep (1 cm). I get about 70 to 80 hours of clean burning - no hangups. For a few fragrances, namely ones heavy with cinamon and such, I need to wick down to an HTP104. I've tried ECO and CSN wicks with very little success. I do get some frosting and some wet spots - worse with greens and red, but we are in a cold climate, and all my efforts to eliminate these are usually lost the minute the person carries the candle out the door into the cold. Hope that helps.