Stella1952 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Mason jars are manufactured for multiple uses not for simple food packaging. They can be used for candles when new - ONCE.I honestly do not know about salsa jars. Use your own judgement or better yet - ASK if the salsa jars are manufactured to the same specs as candle glassware. It you get a bullshit answer or none at all, consider a better source for glassware. Remember: in most cases where stuff goes wrong, your SUPPLIER isn't going to get sued: YOU are.The whole point is NOT what you can get away with - but what is appropriate for a manufacturer of candles. Baby food manufacturers don't put their product in used containers - why would anyone put new candles in used containers? It's not about what one gets away with - how many people even report candle problems to the CPSC or the manufacturer? Most people just throw them away. The idea here is to be proactive. Edited January 17, 2012 by Stella1952 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeanie353 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Sorry, but it seems that Stella has won the argument here... just scroll down where it talks about (jars) these baby (jars) and you will see for yourself. I think it is fine to make these for a baby shower for friends or just immediate friends but to sell at stores you might want to be a little careful!http://www.canning-food-recipes.com/canning.htmA little helper trying to come to the rescue...how cute is that? Your article is about preserving food. Google is not playing nice if that is all it brought you. Mason jars are manufactured for multiple uses not for simple food packaging. They can be used for candles when new - ONCE. Who says Mason jars can be used once? Stella? Are you self proclaiming yourself the know-it-all of how many times we can use or reuse a jar for candles?Its not what we can get away with but what we feel safe doing. If Stella don't want to use containers that is her choice and should keep her opinions to herself. The point is to let others do as they wish, respect the fact we all have brains, common sense, are age worthy of making our own decisions and are perfectly capable of using the Google feature.Preaching is for churches. Edited January 17, 2012 by jeanie353 additional Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Safety should always be our #1 concern...how sad and with what consequences if the experienced chandlers did NOT bring safety issues to new ones attention. Each one of us has the CHOICE to do whatever we see fit to do with our candles but I for one, am thankful for the knowledge and guidance each of you seasoned chandlers bring to the table. IF baby food jars are NOT heat treated and one has a jar burning on a dresser and FORGETS to extinguish it and that jar bursts while baby is sleeping....just saying its something to consider. One reheats baby food for what-15 seconds on medium power in micro-a candle with a steady, burning flame goes until one blows it out. I'm sure they make adorable candles and I'm glad so many of you have success with them, but newbies should be reminded constantly that SAFETY comes first.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksranch Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 If Stella don't want to use containers that is her choice and should keep her opinions to herself. .I have to disagree with this point - we each, including Stella and yourself, have the right to post opinions. They are not always going to be the same... but again, that is a good thing - we all have more to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeanie353 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Safety should always be our #1 concern...how sad and with what consequences if the experienced chandlers did NOT bring safety issues to new ones attention. Each one of us has the CHOICE to do whatever we see fit to do with our candles but I for one, am thankful for the knowledge and guidance each of you seasoned chandlers bring to the table. IF baby food jars are NOT heat treated and one has a jar burning on a dresser and FORGETS to extinguish it and that jar bursts while baby is sleeping....just saying its something to consider. One reheats baby food for what-15 seconds on medium power in micro-a candle with a steady, burning flame goes until one blows it out. I'm sure they make adorable candles and I'm glad so many of you have success with them, but newbies should be reminded constantly that SAFETY comes first....First off let me say safety does come first in my home and candle business. You don't know me so don't assume I or anyone else who has used baby food jars or Mason jars are not safety conscious. It would be incorrect to assume that.We were all newbies at one time. Of course, we should help them, give them our opinions, suggest options and if it is a KNOWN fire hazard we should warn them.In this instance we have several experienced chandlers who used baby food jars without any problem. Those chandlers would not put out a known unsafe product. Many use Mason jars for their container of choice. To say that Mason jar should only be used ONCE is an opinion that can be challenged with chandlers (myself included) who have used them over and over without any problems whatsoever. I would not have made candles from them if I thought for one minute they showed any sign they would fail after they went through my own testing. With that said.....There is always a chance any glassware will fail. I had a candle supplier container break. IMO we don't have the right to come on here and tell them what is or isn't safe on opinion only. If we are going to go that route then we'd better add in ALL the glassware available to make container candles and say unless it is put through stringent manufacturer safety testing, it is not to be used for container candles.Some feel only candle supplier glassware is safe. I recently had a box of jars come from a well known supplier that was made in China. Do we know China's regulations regarding making glassware? I don't. I do have to add those particular jars have been used over more times than I can count and have not failed. The one I mentioned above that did fail was a US made glassware of a well known brand name.Because it says Libbey or Anchor Hocking is not a guarantee the containers won't break under heat stress unless Libbey or Anchor Hocking have put that glassware through heat testing to the degree a flame would bring.IMO....Each candle maker should use their best discretion possible in choosing glassware. I believe the experienced chandler does that. We don't send out baby food jars without rigorous testing nor do we send out Mason jars without rigorous testing...or any other glassware, for that matter. Edited January 17, 2012 by jeanie353 additional Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisinpa Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Sorry, but it seems that Stella has won the argument here... just scroll down where it talks about (jars) these baby (jars) and you will see for yourself. I think it is fine to make these for a baby shower for friends or just immediate friends but to sell at stores you might want to be a little careful!http://www.canning-food-recipes.com/canning.htmHow about this article?? http://www.ehow.com/how_4855889_make-baby-food-jar-candles.htmlYou can find an opinion to back up any opinion on google. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorseScentS Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 How about this article?? http://www.ehow.com/how_4855889_make-baby-food-jar-candles.htmlYou can find an opinion to back up any opinion on google.Any amateur crafty housewife can write an article for eHow, right? I wouldn't expect them to know as much about glass safety. Heck, I've seen shocking books about candle making in Hobby Lobby advising people to use any old wick in their milk carton pillar candles, and then wrap the candles in paper and dried leaves!!! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeanie353 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 How about this article?? http://www.ehow.com/how_4855889_make-baby-food-jar-candles.htmlYou can find an opinion to back up any opinion on google.websites too:http://www.soapqueen.com/personal-ramblings/eco-chic-candles-2/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SliverOfWax Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Sorry, but it seems that Stella has won the argument here... just scroll down where it talks about (jars) these baby (jars) and you will see for yourself. I think it is fine to make these for a baby shower for friends or just immediate friends but to sell at stores you might want to be a little careful!http://www.canning-food-recipes.com/canning.htmlolol. if stella wants to bloviate about home canning, perhaps there's a home canning forum she could infiltrate. I truly feel sorry for the newbies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carol k Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 http://www.canning-food-recipes.com/canning.htmThis website is bulls**t. I have personally used canning jars for 37yrs. & some older then that that my mother used way before I started canning on my own. There is not an thing wrong with reusing canning/baby food jars. Some people just need real experience & not to depend on the false babble of a website that will sell you jars. BTW I've used glass tea jars for canning forever also. Have fun with your candle making in baby food jars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
periwinkle Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 lolol. if stella wants to bloviate about home canning, perhaps there's a home canning forum she could infiltrate. I truly feel sorry for the newbies.Why do you feel sorry for us newbies? I am perfectly capable of reading what is posted by everyone, and then deciding what I agree with, and what I find to be nonsense. I'm also quite capable reading posts, and discerning the intent behind them, and ignoring the tone I am guessing at. I could say a few more things, but engaging in internet fights is not what I am here for. I find them to be incredibly childish, demeaning to everybody, and counter-productive- especially in what is supposed to be a forum designed for professionals to share information, and newbies to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SliverOfWax Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Since you asked, the reason I feel sorry for newbies is because they don't really know who actually makes candles and can offer advice from experience or who just piddles around googling and bloviating. Until you can separate the wheat from the chaff, you have no way of knowing which advice is realistic and which is just chest thumping and copy/pasting.Reading ability has nothing to do with it.The internet is full to the brim with hideously bad and/or useless information. Nobody is here to engage in childish fights. It's just that those of us who actually know what we're doing (from experience, trial, and error) and have actual businesses get tired of reading nonsense from copy/paste queens. It's an unfortunate aspect of life on all forums. Each one has self-appointed experts. It doesn't matter if the forum is about soap, candles, guns, dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Does anyone know if the composition of canning jars and baby food jars has ever changed? Pyrex used to be the gold standard for glass cooking vessels; it was designed to withstand wide variations between heat and cold cycles with ease. Since the change of glass fomulation from Boroscillate to Soda Lime Glass, many of us have experienced sudden, very scary explosions. My new formulation pyrex measuring cup suddenly, without warning shattered after boiling water in the microwave for a bit over a minute. Pyrex never bothered to alert the public to the formulation change.My question/concern would be similar for other jar types that are manufactured by companies trying to cut manufacturing costs and corners on jarware. Gerber jars may be fine today, but how will we know if/when the glass formulation changes - other than through unexpected product failures? Same with any type of new or repurposed glass I guess. The difference in my mind with using new versus repurposed glass is that if I'm ever named in a lawsuit I can provide traceable documentation about the glass source I purchased new glassware from. the insurance company can then, in turn, subrogate against the glass manufacturer to recoup legal costs if need be. Odds are I'll never need it, but the peace of mind is worth the added material $ to me. Most experienced chandlers that post here will likely (touches wood) never have a problem. I worry for lurkers that don't understand the risks or know enough about proper wicking. An over wicked glass jar of any kind presents a glass failure risk. I tend to be more risk averse than many based on personal and professional experiences. This won't stop me from using glass containers, but it will prevent me from selling candles made in used glassware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SliverOfWax Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 But TallTayl, an overwicked NEW jar will explode as easily as an overwicked USED jar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Understood SliverOfWax - and mentioned in my post. The difference being traceability of the container should the legal need arise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SliverOfWax Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Gotcha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
periwinkle Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Since you asked, the reason I feel sorry for newbies is because they don't really know who actually makes candles and can offer advice from experience or who just piddles around googling and bloviating. Until you can separate the wheat from the chaff, you have no way of knowing which advice is realistic and which is just chest thumping and copy/pasting.Great, then what's wrong with refuting information without being nasty about it? Just because a member may post in a way that I don't like, doesn't make it necessary for me to engage in name calling or belittling them. Reading ability has nothing to do with it.Reading is everything on forums. In fact, that's all there is. Tone can be difficult to read in posts, and I've seen things on forums escalate in a way that would make your toes curl, over a mis-interpretation. Plus, I'm sure that a lot of people that come here to learn how to make candles or soaps, take in a lot of info, and the do more research. Just because one person says the sky has a green hue, doesn't mean all the newbies are going to run with it, and only believe that information. We're also going take into the account that 17 other people say the sky is blue. Being new does not equal being clueless.The internet is full to the brim with hideously bad and/or useless information. Nobody is here to engage in childish fights. It's just that those of us who actually know what we're doing (from experience, trial, and error) and have actual businesses get tired of reading nonsense from copy/paste queens. It's an unfortunate aspect of life on all forums. Each one has self-appointed experts. It doesn't matter if the forum is about soap, candles, guns, dogs.You're right, the internet is chock full of tons of bad info. Have you ever diagnosed an illness using Google, and discovered you're going to die because your symptoms all point to bubonic plague? LOL I work with families of premature babies, and the first thing I tell them, is DO NOT GOOGLE, because it will destroy their hope that their child can be ok. They always kind of laugh, and say, "Yeah, I already looked up some stuff. I'm never doing that again." My point is, unless someone is new to the internet, or desperate, they know not to believe everything they read online.I have been the owner of a mommy forum for several years. I know full well how forums work. Some are much more civil than others. I assumed that this one would be fairly civil. Differences of opinions are to be expected, because in life, there is rarely only one right way to do things. I understand, and appreciate, that you and other candle professionals want to make sure that newbies are not taking away bad information. However, the manner in which it's done sometimes gets in the way of the message. I have a lot more respect for those that can refute bad information with good, by providing the info in a positive manner. Like I tell my kids, two wrongs never make a right.Take what I have to say with a grain of salt, it's only my opinion of course. And since I'm a newbie, I don't expect anyone to actually care about what I have to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SliverOfWax Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Please don't take what I said out of context:I said: Reading ability has nothing to do with it. You said: Reading is everything on forums. In fact, that's all there is.My comment was in regards to newbies being able to discern truth and experience from bullcrap. Yes, reading is all there is, but ability to read doesn't enable newbies to know who has a clue. I have a feeling you know that's what I said and what I meant.This is a very civil forum. If a virgin blew onto your forum and racked up post after post about the dangers of breast feeding, well............you get my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 My question/concern would be similar for other jar types that are manufactured by companies trying to cut manufacturing costs and corners on jarware. Gerber jars may be fine today, but how will we know if/when the glass formulation changes - other than through unexpected product failures? Same with any type of new or repurposed glass I guess. The difference in my mind with using new versus repurposed glass is that if I'm ever named in a lawsuit I can provide traceable documentation about the glass source I purchased new glassware from. the insurance company can then, in turn, subrogate against the glass manufacturer to recoup legal costs if need be. Odds are I'll never need it, but the peace of mind is worth the added material $ to me. Most experienced chandlers that post here will likely (touches wood) never have a problem. I worry for lurkers that don't understand the risks or know enough about proper wicking. An over wicked glass jar of any kind presents a glass failure risk. I tend to be more risk averse than many based on personal and professional experiences. This won't stop me from using glass containers, but it will prevent me from selling candles made in used glassware. How refreshing!! You made excellent points, TallTayl.Does anyone know if the composition of canning jars and baby food jars has ever changed? Yes. From 1992-2002, the thickness of glass used for food packaging was reduced 40-50%. This was done to lighten the weight of the product cases & pallets for shipping and manufacturing cost purposes. Since food packaging jars are not intended to be repurposed, they do not have to be as thick as canning jars, which are intended for repeated use for CANNING purposes. There is a difference between the formulas and manufacturing methods for jars used for home canning and ones (like baby food jars) made for food packaging.Canning jars have changed over the years - I have been canning since the late 60s and I can assure you there is a major difference in the weight and quality of canning jars then vs. canning jars now. The same holds true with babyfood jars. Those things used to be so heavy and solid you could darned near use them as floor jacks for a car, but they are NOT that solid any more. an overwicked NEW jar will explode as easily as an overwicked USED jar. That is a false choice and statistically wrong. A reused, properly wicked glass container that is manufactured for candle making purposes, statistically speaking, is more likely to fail than a new one. A repurposed glass container not designed for use in candle making is more likely to fail even when properly wicked than a glass container made for candle making.Glass has a lifespan. The more frequently it is subjected to thermal and physical stress, the closer to failure it becomes. Please read about glassmaking - you do not seem to understand much about the substance at all. Repurposed glassware does not necessarily have to be overwicked to fail. I'm sorry some of you cannot understand that glass is formulated and manufactured differently for different purposes, but I think many of you DO understand that. There are some people who might be interested in reading and learning more, but there are those who really don't want to learn - only to argue. That makes an open discussion a misery.For those who want to take the risk of using repurposed glass for candles, that's entirely up to you - the arguments against it have been presented. I personally don't recommend it for all the reasons discussed. I will always use glass for the containers I make for sale and it will always be new and purchased from a reliable glass manufacturer. At least if there is a failure, I can trace that glasware right back to the manufacturer. If I make candles with used glass, I cannot. I'd rather err on the side of product safety and not risk extra product liability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Nothing, not a single jar, tin, glass, whatever is full-proof. I've used baby-food jars to test scents for myself before and even to give out little portions of lotions to friends to help me find a recipe I liked, actually, I have pigments for coloring B&B stuff in baby food jars now. I never sold them but that's me. As for Mason Jars, yeah, they're made to withstand multiple uses but even that isn't full-proof. Last summer I made a batch of chocolate syrup and jarred it via boiling. I boiled the jars to sterilize, put hot product in hot jars (as is recommended) then boiled them again to create a vacuum seal. All the jars were fine, except one. I had one jar break as soon as it submerged into the water bath a second time. When I pulled it out, I found that about 2/3 of the way down the jar, the entire bottom just broke clear off. Chocolate syrup in the entirety of my 21qt canning pot was NOT fun to clean out. I pulled the rest of the jars out and they were fine, I wiped them down and stored them in the fridge just to be on the safe side. It was a brand new Mason Jar straight out of the shrink wrap. If you're someone who wants to use baby food jars, go for it, be careful, know the risks, I still am not too keen on selling them but that's my personal standpoint. There's plenty of stuff I'll make for myself that I'd never share with anyone else because I'm too much of a worry-wort about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Chocolate syrup in the entirety of my 21qt canning pot was NOT fun to clean out.Oh WOW!!! I have had canning jars *pop* like that, even straight out of the case, but never with chocolate syrup!!! I'll never complain about cleaning up a "popped" jar of salsa ever again!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 It sucked. Bigtime! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorseScentS Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Nothing, not a single jar, tin, glass, whatever is full-proof. I've used baby-food jars to test scents for myself before and even to give out little portions of lotions to friends to help me find a recipe I liked, actually, I have pigments for coloring B&B stuff in baby food jars now. I never sold them but that's me. As for Mason Jars, yeah, they're made to withstand multiple uses but even that isn't full-proof. Last summer I made a batch of chocolate syrup and jarred it via boiling. I boiled the jars to sterilize, put hot product in hot jars (as is recommended) then boiled them again to create a vacuum seal. All the jars were fine, except one. I had one jar break as soon as it submerged into the water bath a second time. When I pulled it out, I found that about 2/3 of the way down the jar, the entire bottom just broke clear off. Chocolate syrup in the entirety of my 21qt canning pot was NOT fun to clean out. I pulled the rest of the jars out and they were fine, I wiped them down and stored them in the fridge just to be on the safe side. It was a brand new Mason Jar straight out of the shrink wrap. If you're someone who wants to use baby food jars, go for it, be careful, know the risks, I still am not too keen on selling them but that's my personal standpoint. There's plenty of stuff I'll make for myself that I'd never share with anyone else because I'm too much of a worry-wort about it.Was it a Ball jar? Kerr? or Walmart Mainstay? The Mainstay jars look flimsy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I use the pint Mainstay jars, and to date have never had a problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorseScentS Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I use the pint Mainstay jars, and to date have never had a problem...I noticed that Walmart carries pint jar candles from "The Candle Cottage," and I can tell they use the Mainstay jars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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