Does melt pool temp have anything to do with scent throw

[chuck_35550]

Ok, first of all I see no need to be rude and call me an unreliable source (my quote came from the same Association) and secondly what is ST? and thirdly I agree with Stella to a point. Yes fo will degrade with prolonged exposure to high temp (duh?) and last but not least; explain how a tea light with such a small melt pool is able to fragrance a large amount of space with the right conditions. Jeanie believes that the eco is too hot and burning off the fo but she doesn't care for the hang up from the cd and she wonders if the fragrance oil is being drawn out and burned off. Right? I don't know that the eco is any hotter than a comparable cd wick they are just constructed to draw the wax in different ways. Is it possible your wicks are wandering and are not anchored well to the bottom of the container? Otherwise, I like the cdn wicks because they don't flop and they burn a little hotter than the straight cd wicks FOR ME. Finally to clarify my position; the flame creates a draft that draws the fragrance from the melt pool but will suppress the fragrance if too hot. So, is the too hot wick burning off the fo? Yes. Is it sucking the fragrance out of the melt pool and ruining your ST? I would think not. The solution would be to keep testing other wicks until you arrive at the balanced system that a good candle represents. Shallow melt pool with a low enough flame that draws the fragrance up without vaporizing the fragrance oil or tunneling into the wax and where about half way through the candle is able to sustain the results without drowning or overheating the container. The answer to my earlier question is that the tea light is able to fragrance a large area because it drafts the quality fragrance oil up into the room where it is picked up by air currents in a well ventilated house or room but the melt pool itself does not fragrance the room without the other elements being present. Logical.

Edited December 19, 2011 by chuck_35550

[jeanie353]

Ok, first of all I see no need to be rude and call me an unreliable source (my quote came from the same Association) and secondly what is ST? and thirdly I agree with Stella to a point. Yes fo will degrade with prolonged exposure to high temp (duh?) and last but not least; explain how a tea light with such a small melt pool is able to fragrance a large amount of space with the right conditions. Jeanie believes that the eco is too hot and burning off the fo but she doesn't care for the hang up from the cd and she wonders if the fragrance oil is being drawn out and burned off. Right? I don't know that the eco is any hotter than a comparable cd wick they are just constructed to draw the wax in different ways. Is it possible your wicks are wandering and are not anchored well to the bottom of the container? Otherwise, I like the cdn wicks because they don't flop and they burn a little hotter than the straight cd wicks FOR ME. Finally to clarify my position; the flame creates a draft that draws the fragrance from the melt pool but will suppress the fragrance if too hot. So, is the too hot wick burning off the fo? Yes. Is it sucking the fragrance out of the melt pool and ruining your ST? I would think not. The solution would be to keep testing other wicks until you arrive at the balanced system that a good candle represents. Shallow melt pool with a low enough flame that draws the fragrance up without vaporizing the fragrance oil or tunneling into the wax and where about half way through the candle is able to sustain the results without drowning or overheating the container. The answer to my earlier question is that the tea light is able to fragrance a large area because it drafts the quality fragrance oil up into the room where it is picked up by air currents in a well ventilated house or room but the melt pool itself does not fragrance the room without the other elements being present. Logical.

Chuck_35550....Thank you for coming back to comment with your opinion on my questions. I do have CDNs here and will give them a try. My wicks are secure and not wandering so that we can eliminate but it was a great thought just in case. I have also tried LX, zinc, RRD, Premier and cotton. They lack ST or good burn IMO...in my wax/FO, etc.

I have a couple thoughts in mind that I'll be testing with new containers poured today.. from your reply and rjdaines. The two combined ...while both different...did explain in easy to understand words theories that give me something to work with.

Also, as far as melts since it was brought up somewhere in this thread....I have no problems there regardless of warmer used. I alternate between tea light and bulb type. Container wax is 1/2 of my tart blend. Another reason I was leaning toward this being a wick issue....just not how or why.

ST is scent throw.

[CaftCandles]

chuck_35550, I wasn't trying to be rude and was not refering to you as being reliable, or unreliable for that matter. I was refering to the NCA being a more reliable resource than I because it appeared as if someone wasn't absorbing the information that was being shared by myself and others. There were several post and references in this thread (not by you) that I felt to be rude and when I typed out that reply it was not to be rude to you but to clarify some things that were covered several times on previous post. The original question by the OP is listed below (for reference), someone jumped in and tried to make this thread their own instead of reading through the thread where all of the questions posed was answered by several participants, several times, then posted some rude schoolhouse comments, totally blowing off the efforts of others as if they were the only one with a problem that needed attention.

There were no bad intentions towards you in that post.

Does melt pool temp have anything to do with scent throw

Hi,

Anyway can someone tell me if melt pool affects the throw?

[Stella1952]

explain how a tea light with such a small melt pool is able to fragrance a large amount of space with the right conditions.

A tea light burns rather quickly. It comes to FMP readily and, if wicked correctly, will throw it's butt off in the short time it's around. I would not expect a tea light to "fill" a large space with fragrance, but it could certainly make a pleasant, noticable scent in a large space. Side by side, the HT of a tealight is not the same as a larger candle with a wider MP, however. The volatile oils are released at the surface of the MP no matter what size the candle is.

the flame creates a draft that draws the fragrance from the melt pool but will suppress the fragrance if too hot. So, is the too hot wick burning off the fo? Yes. Is it sucking the fragrance out of the melt pool and ruining your ST? I would think not.

The flame does create convection currents in the air which draw the vaporized aromatic VOCs upward. Some are burned off by the flame, most are carried up and around the flame to join the air currents in the room and fragrance the air. If a flame is too hot, more of the volatile vapors will be burned off by the flame and the high temperature will oxidize and degrade the ones in the overheated MP. Whether that's the problem with Jeanie's candle, I have no idea, but that's basically how it works.

One of the first investments I made when I started candle making was a variable tempreature wax tart warmer

I had no idea there was such a thing! That would be handy on a number of levels... It seems like synching the temp of the MP with the same temp in the melter could quickly answer the question of whether a wick is burning off too much of the FO. I need me one of those!

The CD that is size compatible produces about the same size MP at the same rate but it does not melt down evenly. Also produces a very unstable flame. Yet gives a strong ST.

The CD does not burn evenly on both sides of the candle because of its self-trimming stance. Twisting the wick or recentering the HEAT (not the wick) in the container mitigates this issue. The side away from the curl is the cool side; the side of the curl is the hot side. When testing, it's a very good idea to keep the wick/heat centered as a matter of course. If a wick is burning off-center, it is simple logic to adjust it to burn more evenly.

When you say ST, I assume you are talking about HT rather than CT. If all that is bothering you about the CD wick, just twist your wicks a few turns and the lop-sided MP will be mostly corrected. I have a big 4" soy candle I poured a couple of nights ago burning and the MP is absolutely even because I twisted the wick. I was afraid it hadn't cured long enough because of the FO oils used in the blend, but it's quite pleasing. That fat boy will only get better each time it is burned! I should have waited, but I just couldn't hold out... it kept saying "light me up" every time I walked by it...

[ChandlerWicks]

Everyone is guilty of changing thread topics. As long as it does kind of pertain to the same topic ,why not? I learned alot from everyones responses. If everyone would just watch how they respond we could learn alot more, because words are so easily taken out of context. When someone responds to a post with the quote/bold button & then capitalizes, I personally would take offense whether it was meant or not.

[Stella1952]

When someone responds to a post with the quote/bold button & then capitalizes, I personally would take offense whether it was meant or not.

Quoting is a way to let a reader know exactly what the writer is responding to. Bolded, italicized or underscored words and phrases are to help emphasize specific points and increase the readability of a passage. This helps the written word seem more like the spoken word where one would emphasize points with tone of voice or gestures. Assuming some kind of personal offense that is not intended is a sure road to miscommunication.

[ChandlerWicks]

Exactly, if it's quoted without harmful intent. Refer to posts #46, #51 & #53 I didn't misunderstand the posters written word at all. I comprehend very well.

[Stella1952]

quoted without harmful intent. Refer to posts #46, #51 & #53

I saw no "harmful intent" (nor did I infer any) in any of those posts. To me, the referenced posts read like a respectful exchange of ideas. Guess it depends on one's POV... Edited December 19, 2011 by Stella1952

[jeanie353]

chuck_35550

, I wasn't trying to be rude and was not refering to you as being reliable, or unreliable for that matter. I was refering to the NCA being a more reliable resource than I because it appeared as if someone wasn't absorbing the information that was being shared by myself and others

Don't let appearances fool ya. I absorb quite well including what is copy/paste materials and what comes out of one's head to where they know what they are talking about.

If both are used to enhance, that is great and makes wonderful subject material. When the post is terribly long with lots of quoted stuff....we tend to drift off

Edited December 19, 2011 by jeanie353

[Beth]

Now, everyone off to your rooms for a time-out santa chee

[ChandlerWicks]

Oy Veigh! (SP)

[jeanie353]

When you say ST, I assume you are talking about HT rather than CT. If all that is bothering you about the CD wick, just twist your wicks a few turns and the lop-sided MP will be mostly corrected. I have a big 4" soy candle I poured a couple of nights ago burning and the MP is absolutely even because I twisted the wick. I was afraid it hadn't cured long enough because of the FO oils used in the blend, but it's quite pleasing. That fat boy will only get better each time it is burned! I should have waited, but I just couldn't hold out... it kept saying "light me up" every time I walked by it...

Ya know....I did not go back to see which post ST came from when chuck_35550 asked what it meant. I could have surely meant HT. I am not perfect. Many times I refer to the throw from my candles as ST. Again...that is me, my way of talking and do not claim perfection.

Well, back to our test Stella when you helped me out. I do twist my CD wicks and in the pictures I sent you...you told me you could tell they were twisting b/c on one "the flame was at xxx o'clock and the MP was at xxx o'clock"....

I had no idea there was such a thing! That would be handy on a number of levels... It seems like synching the temp of the MP with the same temp in the melter could quickly answer the question of whether a wick is burning off too much of the FO. I need me one of those!

Not me...I'm going with my thermometer to check the heat of a full MP created from both wicks so I get an accurate assessment of each component as I go along today testing.

The flame does create convection currents in the air which draw the vaporized aromatic VOCs upward. Some are burned off by the flame, most are carried up and around the flame to join the air currents in the room and fragrance the air. If a flame is too hot, more of the volatile vapors will be burned off by the flame and the high temperature will oxidize and degrade the ones in the overheated MP.

.....This is what I am suspecting......Was not addressed in searches of loss of HT that I found so put it up for question here. Edited December 19, 2011 by jeanie353

[Stella1952]

When the post is terribly long with lots of quoted stuff....we tend to drift off

Complex discussions are often not succinct... nor should they be to avoid glossing over important points and to maximize comprehension of important points.

Well, back to our test Stella when you helped me out. I do twist my CD wicks and in the pictures I sent you...you told me you could tell they were twisting b/c on one "the flame was at xxx o'clock and the MP was at xxx o'clock"....

That's not the subject of this thread. If you wish to discuss it further, why not bump that discussion up so we can all have another crack at it? When we give our impressions based on a photo of a burn, we are looking at one point in the time of a burn. That may or may not be accurate, depending...

[jeanie353]

The original question by the OP is listed below (for reference), someone jumped in and tried to make this thread their own instead of reading through the thread where all of the questions posed was answered by several participants, several times, then posted some rude schoolhouse comments, totally blowing off the efforts of others as if they were the only one with a problem that needed attention.

Finally....in regard to this statement. I went back and read the entire thread. It progressed along with a back and forth conversation in a very nice way. By post #4 the discussion was into candles and proceeded that way for the most part. It was a very nice thread with back and forth. Conversations do change as threads go along often which is what makes them interesting.

If you are referring to me blowing off your efforts....I blew off your post b/c it was long, had copy/paste appearances and it had what I saw as agenda of cooking candles or too high temps that was irrelevant to the point the conversation had progressed to. My specific question was not answered in any of the posts prior to my posting it....if you are referring to me.

Edited December 19, 2011 by jeanie353
spelling

[Stella1952]

By post #4 the discussion was into candles

Huh? In the thread title and in Post #1, the OP asked about whether the temperature of the MP could affect the HT of his/her candles...

If you are referring to me blowing off your efforts...

To whom are you referring, Jeanie?

[jeanie353]

By post #4 the discussion was into candles Huh? In the thread title and in Post #1, the OP asked about whether the temperature of the MP could affect the HT of his/her candles...

By post #4 the conversation was into candles, melt pool, etc. I meant it was underway into whether or not MP affected throw. It was not a derogatory comment to your post, I just meant the discussion was into HT, MP, etc. Indicating it began to progress further from there as people chimed in.....as conversations do. That was in reference to that person stating someone "tried to make this thread their own", where questions posed was answered by several participants several times....etc.

If you are referring to me blowing off your efforts... To whom are you referring, Jeanie?

I am referring to craftcandles ....not sure if I have the name exactly right and too lazy to delete what I wrote so far to scroll back...... Edited December 19, 2011 by jeanie353

[jeanie353]

Complex discussions are often not succinct... nor should they be to avoid glossing over important points and to maximize comprehension of important points.

Agree on first part.....Fact is...those type of posts do get glossed over. Its like a person to person discussion where one goes on so long people just begin to tune it out. Sorry...but I don't know how to word it in any delicate way.

Well, back to our test Stella when you helped me out. I do twist my CD wicks and in the pictures I sent you...you told me you could tell they were twisting b/c on one "the flame was at xxx o'clock and the MP was at xxx o'clock".... That's not the subject of this thread. If you wish to discuss it further, why not bump that discussion up so we can all have another crack at it? When we give our impressions based on a photo of a burn, we are looking at one point in the time of a burn. That may or may not be accurate, depending.

It became part of it again b/c it was addressed in your post about not whether or not the wicks were twisted. We have been through this when it originally happened. It wasn't on a thread that I can bump or I would have already.

I'm done here b/c when our test keeps coming into the discussion (hand raised as blame), it is taking away from those who are trying to learn.

I originally brought it up thinking you would remember it, thus shed light on what we did and didn't find by doing that which does/did directly relate to the OP of HT and the rest of the thread of wicks, etc.

[Stella1952]

Agree on first part.....Fact is...those type of posts do get glossed over. Its like a person to person discussion where one goes on so long people just begin to tune it out. Sorry...but I don't know how to word it in any delicate way.

People always have a choice of whether to read a long post or not. Many times when they do not, they also do not get as much value from the post and thus continue to have questions that may have been answered. When I want to learn about something, I read every word (many times more than once) even if the material is lengthy, technical and above my pay grade. I became accustomed to doing this in college and continue this practice many eons later when I am studying. Sometimes it helps me to read the material aloud to glean more understanding of it. HTH

[CaftCandles]

I had no idea there was such a thing! That would be handy on a number of levels... It seems like synching the temp of the MP with the same temp in the melter could quickly answer the question of whether a wick is burning off too much of the FO. I need me one of those!

Stella, I found that by accident while looking for something similar, Got Lucky! The Link I posted is where I got mine and don't let it being a "second quality" fool you, I cannot see anything defected on mine. It took me about an hour to note the temperature range (the dial doesn't have numbers) with my digital thermometer and now I know where to set the dial for the temp I want and it has good repeatability. It comes with a large diameter bowl which works really well but I also use a SS Condiment cup to simulate the throw from a smaller diameter warmer. Since I got one it has given me a lot of incite into the affects of MP temp and the release of the volatiles which help me with wicking candles. I highly recommend one! Good Luck.