lmc Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 So I ordered a huge sample pack from WickIt (thanks WickIt!), and I'm still trying to wick my 3.2" 16 oz canning jars using 464...The CD18 is not quite hot enough but from the research I've done it appears CDN's burn slightly hotter so would the CDN 18 be the next to try or CDN20? Reason I ask is WickIt only sent CD18's the rest were their Premier 700,800, and 900 series...thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck_35550 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 The ones from Candle Coccoon do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Try a CDN 16 in that size jar... How far down are you burning it before you made the determination that the 18 wasn't "hot enough"? You erally have to let them burn to the end to see if they will catch up... How's the HT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon in KY Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I was just going to say the CD16 works great in that jar, for me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 LOL Sharon - there's an echo in here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 Stella, I burned it to the end-was testing 5 completely different wicks and liked the CD18 but only ever got to a 1/4" deep mp even after a 4 hour burn...CBA is SO much easier to deal with but I want a stronger ht and 464 is more affordable. From previous threads from you and others I've gathered that CDN burns slightly hotter than a same sized CD wick so that's why I thought maybe the CDN18 would be just right The ht was ok-I know it could be better tho...I'm also going to try 1/2 tsp of CO to see if that helps too. I use 464, 8.5% fo load, 16 oz canning jar and cure for 5-7 days before testing. Thanks once again for the help everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I've gathered that CDN burns slightly hotter Not nessarily - CDNs sometimes burn more efficiently than do comparable sized CDs but the only difference in the wick is the acid resisting treatment applied to the CDN.I'm also going to try 1/2 tsp of COCO is used to halp stabilize the appearance of soy waxes but it does nothing toward HT that I have seen.8.5% fo loadThat's kinda high... and you're thinking of adding MORE oil in the form of CO? Personally, I think you should back down to 1 oz. PPO and a CD 16 and see what happens... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 Hmm...ok I will try that...I was reading on an older thread about CO where numerous people had commented that CO would help with ht...I will try your suggestion first. I don't use dye with 464 because for now I'm still trying to figure out the wicking situation. I know tempering (tempuring lol) really helps with frosting issue but I'm not going to concern myself with that-one thing at a time:tongue2: Personal opinion anyone?...If I decide not to use dye-would I get better ht with GB 415, 444, or 464? These waxes seem readily available at a reasonable price... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjdaines Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Hmm...ok I will try that...I was reading on an older thread about CO where numerous people had commented that CO would help with ht...I will try your suggestion first. I don't use dye with 464 because for now I'm still trying to figure out the wicking situation. I know tempering (tempuring lol) really helps with frosting issue but I'm not going to concern myself with that-one thing at a time:tongue2: Personal opinion anyone?...If I decide not to use dye-would I get better ht with GB 415, 444, or 464? These waxes seem readily available at a reasonable price...If we are talking about 464, I have tried CO at varies amounts and did not find that it helps with the frosting all that much. Initially it looked good but over time the frosting appeared and gradually worked it's way all through the candle. No color will help in that some dyes seems to promote frosting more than others and also a non-dyed candle will hide what frosting does occur. I have tempered 464 but if I use it I will not add dye any more anyway so it may be hard to tell if it makes a difference.CO did not help with HT nor did coco wax, one just has to search for FO that work well with that wax, in fact any wax. The next topic that usually pops up now is curing and how some feel that weeks to months of curing helps HT. Some here refuse to wait more that 48 hours to test, I'll give it a week or too. If there is no appreciable HT then I move on, there are plenty of FO out there. One thing interesting I am finding is wicking. A "good" burn does not always translate into a good throw and here we may be talking about the relationship between the temp of the melt pool vs. the rate of consumption of the wick and giving the the FO time to volatilize before it gets burned as fuel. Best advice here would be to get sample packs of various wicks, make multiples of the same candle but with different wick types; repeat if the wick size is not quite right. Adjust wick type and size for burn and HT.That went a little long, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 Thanks for the advice...I was going to try CO to improve ht but I guess it's used more for smoother tops, etc. I let candles cure for a week and use mostly CS fo's-really like them. I'm experimenting with 464-I use CBA as well, love the looks-ht could be stronger. I have tried 100% soy candles from a mother/daughter team north of here that make great smelling candles but cannot duplicate their strong ht with CBA or 464-wondering if the 444 or all soy 415 would be better for ht...gotta love the testing! (I do not use dye for 464 only CBA) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjdaines Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Thanks for the advice...I was going to try CO to improve ht but I guess it's used more for smoother tops, etc. I let candles cure for a week and use mostly CS fo's-really like them. I'm experimenting with 464-I use CBA as well, love the looks-ht could be stronger. I have tried 100% soy candles from a mother/daughter team north of here that make great smelling candles but cannot duplicate their strong ht with CBA or 464-wondering if the 444 or all soy 415 would be better for ht...gotta love the testing! (I do not use dye for 464 only CBA)I have tried CB-A, 444 and 464 and see all the same things you are seeing. From reading here, 415 seems to be the best for HT but is a challenge for appearance whereas, CB-A is the best for appearance for the weakest for HT. Does this tell us something?? Maybe. Don't judge you candles by other people's because you don't really know what's in them or how long it took them to get there. Maybe one day I'll try 415 but for now I am enjoying working with 4630 which is a paraffin wax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 thanks, I will continue to experiment through trial and error but appreciate the feedback-helps keep me sane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmeroo Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Hi lmc..Have you ever tried mixing 444 or 415 with the CBA? You would have to test the ratio for yourself, but when I was making candles and selling I also loved CBA. But Top always said no hot throw..and Top was right. Then I switched to 415..the best ht ever! I could not get a nice candle no matter what I did! I though hmmmm..maybe I could mix the 2 waxes to get the best of both worlds..but I never got a ratio that worked for me. I ended up with C3, and that is what I still use. I also love mottled candles and use a straight paraffin. I don't sell anymore but I love making candles so I am always playing. Hope you find what works for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Hi lmc..Have you ever tried mixing 444 or 415 with the CBA? You would have to test the ratio for yourself, but when I was making candles and selling I also loved CBA. But Top always said no hot throw..and Top was right. Then I switched to 415..the best ht ever! I could not get a nice candle no matter what I did! I though hmmmm..maybe I could mix the 2 waxes to get the best of both worlds..but I never got a ratio that worked for me. I ended up with C3, and that is what I still use. I also love mottled candles and use a straight paraffin. I don't sell anymore but I love making candles so I am always playing. Hope you find what works for you! Is there any way that 415 & C3 can be blended? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmeroo Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I suppose you could try it..but for me C3 is fine all by itself. I use HTP and CD wicks depending on the FO. I also temper my wax before I use it and I always heat to 180* then add FO and color if you use it..(I don't)..then pour at 160*. I always get beautiful tops and cure for a couple days..some FO no cure. Good luck..keep us posted if you do try mixing 415 and C3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 You can blend anything, but considering the properties of the two waxes, you will likely end up with a little more HT and a LOT more frosting. You're simply adding more pure hydrogenated soy wax which does less for increased HT than it does toward increased polymorphism. I think C3 represents the happiest "medium" among all the soy wax considerations, which is why I continue to use it. The HT of C3 is only slightly less than that of 415, IMHO, and the appearance is markedly better in all respects, so my position is "why mess with a good thing"... But, for grins... my interest in experimentation and blending goes in a slightly different direction. I am quite satisfied with the HT of C3 in most all of the FOs I have used (it ain't picky), but I am always interested in improving its resistance to frosting & cauliflowering WITHOUT impacting the HT. To mitigate the frosting of C3 or any other soy wax, I have been interested in seeing how blending palm oil products would effect the stability of the soy wax crystals. I was pleased with the tests I conducted using organic red palm oil + USA + tempering, but I am not sure it is worth the added cost when USA + tempering does a mighty fine job of reducing frosting to a dull roar (although I'm looking at a year-old spent container from that test and still no frosting or cauliflowering and great CT... hmmmm...). That would require further testing to ascertain, and reduction of HT is always a possibility to be carefully observed. NatureWax C1 has palm oil in its formula, so apparently they added it for a reason... some people prefer C1 over C3 but it is difficult to locate. C1 reportedly has a greater tendency to crack (harder) and shrink, causing more wet spots. I don't know whether the HT is equal to that of C3.Have fun trying different things, but think about what you are trying to achieve and make changes ONE at a time so you can verify your results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 Thanks everyone, your input is invaluable and encouraging :smiley2: I do want to mention that I did find the near perfect formula for CBA and am quite satisfied with the looks and ct/ht. However I am now trying to make a "green" candle using only earthy scents with no dye-hence debating between the 415 and 444 for ht only. 464 has and still is being a PITA to wick-more testers being poured tomorrow GB seems to be more readily available and affordable than most...again thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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