Help please!!!

[Serasvae]

Hello again Everyone,

After I test burn my candles - they always reharden with such an awful look! I attached pics...

I get all my fragrance oil from Nature's Garden and I use 1oz/1lb wax.

When I pour my candles they all come out really nice looking. No frosting and smooth tops. After I let them cure (7-10 days), I test burn and every time when they reharden the tops look awful and I get a frosted line all the way around the candle.

I am trying to single wick 4" apothecary jars. So far I have tried HTP1212, ECO 16 and 798.

I add fragrance/dye at 175 and pour between 150-160

I know this could be anything.. the fo, the dye, the WICK, etc etc etc...

Does this happen to anyone else?? Any suggestions??

Thank you so much for your help !!

[jonsie]

I know it is frustrating, but your candles look just like soy candles after cooling from a full melt pool. You can considering adding non soy additives, tinker with different cooling-down rates, and try tempering your wax.

But for customers who know real soy candles (and not candles that simply claim to be soy), will expect that behavior from your candle.

[B@BlissStreet]

Agree with Jonsie. I've never had anyone complain if there is some mottling after a full burn. I don't have it happen with every scent, but since no one minds, neither do I!

[Stella1952]

What kind of wax are you using? Without knowing that, it's real hard to offer any firm suggestions... All FOs are not created equal and not all FOs by ANY supplier will react the same. What kind of dye are you using and how much? I like CDN wicks (CDs if I can't find the right size in CDNs) for soy wax. A 4" container is at the threshold of single and multiple wicking. For that size I would test a CDN 20 and a CDN 22.

BTW, the tops you think look so awful look pretty decent actually. Other kinds of soy wax harden with a top that looks like cottage cheese, so those are certainly NOT the worst looking soy wax tops we've ever seen! Let us know what kind of wax and dye you are using and perhaps we can offer more specific assistance.

[Serasvae]

Thank you all SO much! I really thought this was awful but from your responses I am feeling a lot better about this now. Thank you !!

Oops, I thought I was forgetting something, hehe, thanks Stella !!

The wax I use is Cargill C3 Naturewax. I order all my fragrance oil through Nature's Garden. The three you see here are Blueberry Cobbler, Oceans, and Birds of Paradise.

Currently I am using dye blocks but I may want to try liquid dye only because I'm not sure how to acurately measure with dye blocks. I create my colors by adding teeny tiny amounts and gradually adding as needed, but as far as measuring goes my scale won't read these teeny tiny amounts ?? So honestly I'm not sure how much dye I am using

Ok, so not the best method I got goin' here, LoL! But trying to work with what I got for now. If anyone has any suggestions on using dye blocks that would be sooo great!

I will most certainly try the soy additive and the CD wicks !

Thanks a bunch you guys!!!

Happy Candlemaking!!!

[Stella1952]

All RIGHTY then! Since I use NatureWax C3 I might can offer you some help. BTW, it's manufactured by Elevance, not Cargill, for the past several years, despite what it says on the website.

I create my colors by adding teeny tiny amounts and gradually adding as needed, but as far as measuring goes my scale won't read these teeny tiny amounts ?? So honestly I'm not sure how much dye I am using

Gotcha. With soy wax, this can be a problem because soy wax really doesn't like dye OR FOs... Try ECO liquid dyes from CandleWic or Southwest Candle Supply. Second choice would be the ReddigGlo dye chips... I think CS has them... Your colors look good, but I cannot tell how severe the frosting is... It usually starts small and grows. Too much dye can really effect the wick's ability to burn the wax efficiently. The mushrooming may be the result. At this point, I wouldn't be too worried about creating deep, dark colors - learn how to pour the wax and wick correctly first. As you gain experience with the wax, you will learn how much is TOO much. Color should be last on your list of concerns at this point. Pay attention to learning how to wick the wax, then whether the FO is working well with the wax & wick, then worry about using loads of dye to get dark colors. If you really want to learn how a wax works, test it first with wax and wick only - no additives, dyes or FO. Once you understand that, add 1 oz. PP of FO and see how that affects things. Once you have THAT working, then add a little dye and see how that affects things, etc. Add ONE new thing at a time, not all at once, You'll never figure out what is causing issues that way! Understand that frosting does not always occur right away. Sometimes it happens over a period of a couple of months, so don't be in too much of a rush. Many people learn this by pouring a bunch of candles they *think* are fine, store them and open them up a couple of months later to sell to find they have frosted, cauliflowered and or grown over the wick!

I use USA with C3 - 1 Tablespoonful PP. It's available from The Candlemaker's Store and UV color protector (available from many sources). I add all to the Presto to melt together. Prewarm your FO in the pour pot with your dye ~ 150°F is fine... just enough to warm it slightly and to melt the dye completely. Stir until the dye is completely dissolved into the FO. Melt the wax to 185°F, stirring slowly and pretty constantly. Add the wax to the FO/dye in the pour pot. Clip a thermometer on the side and stir the mixture until the temp reaches 165°F. Pour into prewashed containers. If the room is cool, it's not a bad idea to warm the inside of the container right before pouring with a heat gun. Cool on cookie racks or in the oven (you can prewarm to about 150°F, turn off before candles go in). For best results, melt your wax, etc. until the wax becomes clear (stir constantly), then turn off and stir occasionally until the wax becomes solid. The next day, melt to 185°F and proceed as above. Stirring is important. You want to keep the wax moving so that none of the wax gets exposed to the higher heat over the element for very long. Technique is very important in combating frosting in soy wax and there are no "short cuts."

As I mentioned a 4" container is not the easiest choice of containers to single wick nor is a wise container choice for a new candlemaker. It normally takes between 2-3 test burns of 4 hours each to achieve FMP. It also takes a LONG TIME to test these big containers, 'cause you have to burn them all the way to the end to see what the wick is gonna do. Your best bet for that size container would be the CDN 22. Check Candle Coccoon or Southwest for that size. It helps to have a 20 and a 24 just in case... If you can't find the right size CDN, go for the CD.

As I mentioned, as a candlemaking newbie, you would be better served to learn your wax using smaller containers because they are easier to wick and don't take so long to test, not to mention the amount of wax & FO you are using up for testing. If you choose to try a different container, try something straight-sided, round, 2½- 3", whose height is not much more than its diameter.

In general, your candles look okay - the biggest part of what's making the top and edges look bad is the wick. The edges may look a little ragged until it achieves FMP, although that is not always the case. You do not want to use an oversized wick because as the candle burns down into the container, the heat will become more concentrated and the wick that appeared to be just right the first couple of burns is now a torch and is causing the container to be way too hot to handle. Always wick for the last half of the container.

You did not mention how many test burns you have done on those candles nor which wick is in them... It looks to me like the wax is getting too hot (thus the frost strip underneath the MP).

Good luck & let us know how things go for you.

[Serasvae]

Thank you SO much! This is such GREAT information!! VERY helpful!! I am going to try those wicks you suggested Stella and I agree the best thing for me to do now is to start with just wicks and wax, smaller jars ofc and test test test from there. Those pics I posted were only 2nd test burns but I will still test those to see what happens. I used HTP1212, ECO 16 and 798 wicks in those. Thank you so much for your help!! I really appreciate it! I have seen C3 listed as Elevance and Cargill. I order my wax from Candle Science, which has it listed has Cargill so thanks for clearing that up also!

Thanks again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll be back !!!

[pixie]

What size jars are they? I know you said 4inch but Im assuming you meant 4inches across? How much wax does that jar hold? Are they 16oz?

[SmellinRite]

I have a similar issue, except my candles look like Freddy Krueger's face after they have been burnt. This is the very first batch of candles I've made (yesterday) and was over joyed with how they turned out ... till I burnt one and it cooled. It seriously hurt my feelings. I am so inexperienced that I do not know if it is normal, although from what I've read on this thread, it very well may be ????

I heat to 185 and add FO & dye chips (2 for this candle)

Poured at 100

[rjdaines]

I have a similar issue, except my candles look like Freddy Krueger's face after they have been burnt. This is the very first batch of candles I've made (yesterday) and was over joyed with how they turned out ... till I burnt one and it cooled. It seriously hurt my feelings. I am so inexperienced that I do not know if it is normal, although from what I've read on this thread, it very well may be ????

I heat to 185 and add FO & dye chips (2 for this candle)

Poured at 100

Looks like a soy candle to me, they can get like that after a burn, I wouldn't worry about it. Paraffin looks nicer after a burn but I assume you want to stay with a veggie wax.

[Stella1952]

I have a similar issue, except my candles look like Freddy Krueger's face after they have been burnt

Welcome to the addiction, SmellinRite! When you need suggestions, give us the entire rundown - the brand/type of wax, the amount of FO, the wick type/size and the container inside diameter. Without all that (plus the temps and anything else you can think of), it's hard do do much more than make a guess... which I'm not fixin' to do without at least knowing which wax I'm seeing... Your candle did pour smooth, which doesn't always happen on your first try... nice job on that. Let's see what we can do to help you keep it that way. What FO was that, BTW? And am I looking at a kit?

I will suggest this: Test your candles for 1 hour per inch of inside diameter... Burning less than that will encourage the candle to tunnel and throw off your testing data. That one doesn't appear to have burned very long...

***...Freddie Krueger's face... GOTTA LOVE IT!!...***

[SmellinRite]

Thank you Stella and I have a good feeling that I will be needing a stay in rehab. I feel SOOO much better now! I most definitely want to stay with soy, I am in love with it.

I will suggest this: Test your candles for 1 hour per inch of inside diameter... Burning less than that will encourage the candle to tunnel and throw off your testing data. That one doesn't appear to have burned very long...

I have the patience of a two year old; that candle hadn't even been sitting but for 7 hours before I burned it. I was just so excited. I am making three candles in each batch so I have one for my lack of patience and one to test. If it passes, I will be giving it my best friend to burn in her hair salon. I've read so many different time variables on the cure time, what do you recommend before burning?

I feel very fortunate to only live 30 minutes away from CS. Instead of getting a kit, I used a couple of kits as guidelines for buying my initial supplies. I bought 50 lbs of GB464 so I would have plenty of room for error. I also got 10 lbs of Ecosoya PB to make tarts once I get the candle tins down. My only regret at this point is not buying a digital thermometer. I bought seven different FO's to test out, the one in the picture was CS pumpkin souffle. The smell of that candle is AMAZING! So far I've completed apple harvest, the souffle, hazelnut coffee (not too impressed with the cold throw, hoping it gets stronger) and I just poured creme brulee. Everything so far has been from CS, but I've printed up the "FO for soy" sticky and plan on using it to order more. I have a feeling that will be worth it's weight in gold.

Thank you for the welcome, I have read so many of your posts on this forum, I feel like I already know you.

[B@BlissStreet]

Please let me know where the candle rehab unit is. I just know I'll meet board members in person that way! hahahaha

[Stella1952]

The support group meets here nightly (and daily... and at noon...)

SmellinRite, you should allow AT LEAST 48 hours for the candles to cure... Having said that, I let mine sit for 5-7 days before testing. This gives some of the slowpoke FOs time to develop in the wax. I DO understand how hard it is to wait... I used to have to HIDE candles from myself to keep my mitts off them... Patience is a learned skill for most of us - it SURE doesn't come naturally!!

Good goin' on making up your own kit... I think if you will pour that 464 hotter (like at 165°F) it'll work mo' better for ya. So glad to hear the pumpkin souffle is working for you - there another thread where folks are tearing their hair with trying to get a throw from it in IGI 6006... sometimes the magic works, sometimes it doesn't...

You can probably find a digital thermometer at WallyWorld that costs less than at CS... nothing magical about theirs. A candy thermometer works well too. I suggest getting several thermometer and test the most expensive one to be sure it's accurate (ie. test in well-chilled water with crushed ice - should read 32°F and then test in rapidly boiling water - should read 212°F - unless you're in the mountains, then it's different). From that standard, compare all the other thermometers so you know what their error is. The clip-on ones are very handy for pour pots, etc. The larger clip on candy thermometers are great for Prestos (wax melting pot). The expensive digitals are to keep all the other ones honest.

Glad you're having fun!! Rock on!!

[TammyGCC]

I have had this happen. I am not sure what wax it happened with. I use vegetable wax and CB-135. I am pretty sure it was the vegetable wax that did this. I just thought it was something to accept with this wax.

[Stella1952]

I use vegetable wax and CB-135

I am confused. CB 135 IS vegetable wax... Did you mean vegetable OIL? If so, what kind of veggie oil? There are tons of them... coconut, palm, olive, cottonseed, soybean, etc. That top does have a look I have seen with FOs that aren't playing well, but the initial pour looked very good so I doubt that's it...

[TammyGCC]

The CB-135 say's on the box 100% soybean. I assumed that meant soy wax.

[Stella1952]

Uh huh, but soybeans are vegetables... So you are using the soy wax and vegetable what?

[rjdaines]

Ha ha ha, this is a funny thread. While soy beans are seeds (legumes) I would not really call them vegetables as that name refers to the vegetative parts of a plant and not the seeds but we do refer to a lot of plant seed-based oils as vegetable oils so in that light, soy wax is a vegetable wax.

[Stella1952]

ROTFLMAO - yeah, it does read kinda wonky!! Note the name of this forum - Vegetable Wax. My case of C3 is labeled "premium vegetable wax." What got me confused was "soy wax plus veggie wax" I was wondering if she meant oils and not wax 'cause soy wax is already a veggie wax...

I guess soybean oil is called a veggie oil 'cause it's not petroleum or animal... animal, vegetable, mineral kind of a thing... It's leafy... vegetative... a lot like my brain... ...I'm just gonna dotter back to work now...

Wait, what about squash? And okra? We eat their seeds with the fruit, but not the leaves... I'm gonna go eat some nice, straightforward, easy-to-understand pepperoni and leave these confusing veggies alone...:laugh2:

Edited October 4, 2011 by Stella1952

[SmellinRite]

Please let me know where the candle rehab unit is. I just know I'll meet board members in person that way! hahahaha

As soon as I find it, I will let you know. I think I know understand what having a crack addiction is like. I've got candles on the brain 24/7 ... literally.

Stella, thank you for all the advice! I truly appreciate it. I still have 4 other FO's to try, so I will pour my next one @ 165 and see how that works. I hate that the pumpkin isn't working for the other folks because it REALLY IS AWESOME. My son (17) confiscated one of my testers; he said it smelt good enough to eat. I've got to go to walmart today so I'll pick up a digital thermometer while I'm there.

[Stella1952]

Keeping kids off your testers is a real problem... Because you are doing precise burns, taking notes, etc. (you ARE, aren't you?), tell him to keep his mitts off until the all-clear is sounded. I "baited" my son with other candles so he'd leave my testers alone. I also hid the testers - both from him and from me 'cause it's just HARD to keep my hands off a candle I'm dying to test... if we didn't see them, there was less temptation!!

[B@BlissStreet]

What about Edamame? Edible soy. I like it, as I love sugar snap peas, yet detest green peas in any form.

[B@BlissStreet]

Keeping kids off your testers is a real problem... Because you are doing precise burns, taking notes, etc. (you ARE, aren't you?), tell him to keep his mitts off until the all-clear is sounded. I "baited" my son with other candles so he'd leave my testers alone. I also hid the testers - both from him and from me 'cause it's just HARD to keep my hands off a candle I'm dying to test... if we didn't see them, there was less temptation!!

I had an issue once with my candles "splattering"; wasn't my issue...little sis was burning a tealight warmer and a jar candle in bathroom when the toddlers used the restroom; both attempted to blow out the flames, and the spit they threw was enough to cause bubbling and popping. Sister extinguished when she realized what the kiddos had done; no issues to date, and the twins, Addison and Connor, now love on the candles and dry them with their blankies before Mom lights anything. It wasn't a safety issue at that point; we were on cue. It took a ton of interviewing lying children to figure out. The kids didn't tell us the results for fear of discipline; I bought them ice cream for saving me from a future ordeal in the legal area.

[SmellinRite]

Stella1952, I don't think I've ever tested something so much in life ... aside from my patience. I do believe my bf thinks I've gone mental, probably not much of a stretch.

It wasn't a safety issue at that point; we were on cue. It took a ton of interviewing lying children to figure out. The kids didn't tell us the results for fear of discipline; I bought them ice cream for saving me from a future ordeal in the legal area.

I lol'd when I read this! My MP3 player has been missing for well over a week; my five year old had no idea where it could be (yeah right). Steve told her today that if she found it, he would take her for ice cream. Amazingly enough, it was "found" in two minutes flat. Ice cream is an amazing truth serum!

Edited October 5, 2011 by SmellinRite