Dyes & Soy Wax

[Stella1952]

stored the candles upstairs where it was warmer and alot lighter they frosted.

This is a good practice. I'm glad it has worked so well for you.

What happens when the customer has the candle in a warmer area than your basement

One cannot control what happens after the candle is sold. All soy wax has recommendations for storage temperature. Higher temps are far worse for soy than are cooler ones because higher temps promote the polymorphic changes in the wax structure that are "frosting" and other formations ("cauliflowering," "growing", etc.). I recommend a temperature range to customers - the wax manufacturer recommends - store at 65 – 85° F. Protect from extreme heat and cold (temperatures over 90° F and under 40°F) - for best results when storing and using my candles.I also mention keeping them out of sunlight or placing them too close to lights of any kind (both promote fading, changing of colors and "yellowing" of uncolored wax).

My theory on the no color with soy is you are trying to promote effective candles from soybeans meaning green!

Claiming GREEN is a strong statement

Yeah you right, Mike. I take "green" claims seriously, too.

Crazzie, there is nothing particularly "green" about soy wax. When you examine the entire process by which soy wax arrives at your home, it is no "greener" than is paraffin. Besides the growing and manufacturing processes, you are still making a carbon-producing product. I choose to make veggie wax candles because I like the properties of the waxes. I also find them challenging with which to work. I think it would be disingenuous for me to try to promote them for their "greenness" or "sustainability" or anything environmental. I don't attempt to call soy candles "all-natural," organic, sustainable, green, soot-free, smoke-free or "pure." I promote them as high-quality alternatives to paraffin candles. I promote the colorants as REACH-compliant dyes. I also promote the candles in which I use EOs as having natural fragrances vs. laboratory-created ones (FOs). When I make dye-free candles (and I do offer them), I promote that they contain no natural or artificial colors, for those who prefer that kind of thing. I also offer candles with no dye and no fragrance, for people who do not want any of those additives, for whatever reason, in their candles. I emphasize the testing that goes into my products and that, when burned according to instructions, they emit little, if any, visible soot or smoke.

I think highlighting the genuine qualities of my candles is the best kind of promotion for my products. No marketing hype - "just the facts, ma'am," as Joe Friday would have said. JMHO :smiley2:

Edited August 1, 2011 by Stella1952

[kcollins78]

Crazzie, there is nothing particularly "green" about soy wax. When you examine the entire process by which soy wax arrives at your home, it is no "greener" than is paraffin. Besides the growing and manufacturing processes, you are still making a carbon-producing product. I choose to make veggie wax candles because I like the properties of the waxes. I also find them challenging with which to work. I think it would be disingenuous for me to try to promote them for their "greenness" or "sustainability" or anything environmental. I don't attempt to call soy candles "all-natural," organic, sustainable, green, soot-free, smoke-free or "pure." I promote them as high-quality alternatives to paraffin candles.

Soy is a renewable resource, though, and for some people that's an important issue.

[Stella1952]

Soy is a renewable resource

So is petroleum, which comes from decayed plant and animal material. When we talk about soy's "renewability," we also have to talk about monoculture, Roundup-Ready seed stock (GMO), the use of RoundUp in its cultivation, the clearing of pastures and forests to make fields to grow soybeans, the process by which the precious little oil soybeans contain is extracted/separated and refined, etc. If we went on renewability alone, palm oil is a far better choice because it does not require the use of petrochemicals (hexane) to extract the oil (it can be expeller pressed or steam distilled) and the oil production from one acre of palm plants is many times greater than the oil yield of an acre of soybean plants. The amount of fossil energy required to bring us soy wax is a LOT more than people realize.

for some people that's an important issue

It's an important issue to me, too - important enough to look at the whole picture, and not simply through greenwashed glasses. Renewability and sustainability are not simplistic issues as some might have us all believe. I'm on the side of environmentalism but not greenwashing. I don't want to trade one set of disinformation for another. Please remember that I make only veggie wax candles, so I have a stake in this, too. I'm not a "petrochemical person" dumping on veggie wax!

[Candybee]

You forgot the petrol used to transport the product from the farms to the factories to the suppliers to the consumers.

[crazzie]

You also forget that you are supporting the farmers in the USA. I come from farm country and feel it is very important to support the USA.

[Stella1952]

You also forget that you are supporting the farmers in the USA

Not for a second do I forget. I come from farm country, too, and our local stores sell peppers, strawberries and all kinds of crops imported from other countries that are grown right here. It's the same with soybeans. Do you think they separate each bean according to country of origin??? The big companies who make our soy waxes source their oil INTERNATIONALLY to even out pricing and supply. There is no telling WHERE that molecule of oil came from! It doesn't have a US flag on it...

Using soy wax has ZERO to do with supporting the poor US farmer!! The US farmer does not receive one dime more or less for the price of their soybeans whether we use soy wax or not, but the BIG soy companies DO. The BIG soy folks (Cargill, ADM, and others) figured that if a buncha green tree huggers bought into the "veggie" "all-natural" 100% Pure American marketing bull of soy candles, they could use the US Farmer in there, too, because everyone loves a Farm Aid concert!! Soy candles and Willie Nelson - what's not to like? Do people not even realize when they are being PLAYED like Charlie Daniels' fiddle?

Is there something MORE special about farmers than other US workers? What about the poor US oil rig worker? What about the poor US offshore production platform worker? What about the poor US refinery and chemical plant worker? Is THEIR labor not also worthy of support? I am tired of hearing that marketing manipulation which is actually insulting to US farmers in how far from the real truth it is. Please learn about the actual supply line from field to the final product delivered to your door before you go on about how this "benefits" US farmers.

[Stella1952]

You forgot the petrol used to transport the product from the farms to the factories to the suppliers to the consumers.

Thanks, CandyBee.

I am getting old and forgot that part of my anti-marketing bullsh*t rave...:laugh2:

Not to mention the energy cost of air conditioning used in the labs where they test and come up with all the esters and triglycerols and alkanes and methyl ethyl badshit stuff & stuff that used to be just plain ol' soybean oil that goes into what becomes our 100% pure and all-natural soy wax... :rolleyes2

People seem to think that the golden soybean oil is put into a big vat at the WIlly Wonka Soy Wax plant and out the bottom comes bushels of 100% pure as the driven snow soy wax flakes!

Nice try, but there are not really any elves.

I'm sorry.

I wish there were.

I like elves.

I prefer elves.

But no elves. Sorry.

[Candybee]

Willie Wonka Soy Factory! Now that's a hoot! I can just picture umpa noompa's waddling, singing, and dancing, while stirring large vats of all American made soy wax. I think the secret ingredient is chocolate.

[Stella1952]

I think the secret ingredient is chocolate

See? I told y'all there was a connection between handling chocolate and soy wax!! :laugh2:

Seriously though, my apologies to the OP for taking this thread off-topic. We were talking about dyes and soy wax, not international mega-corp Big Petro, Soy & Palm marketing manipulations. I just hope that soy wax candlemakers everywhere will learn not to buy into and pass on the bogus marketing crap and simply concentrate on making and presenting their products in a manner that represents good candle craftsmanship and honest marketing.

[theshepherdsdaughter]

I had problems using dye with soy wax and one candle supplier where I purchased my wax told me that dye does not mix very well with soy wax. I have just started pouring my soy candles with no color and they are beautiful. You have to label them right away to keep from getting mixed up with what scent it is, because I used to use different colors for different scents.

[Stella1952]

one candle supplier where I purchased my wax told me that dye does not mix very well with soy wax

I think the array of colored soy candles in the Gallery, on people's websites, etc. disproves that... Some colorants (notably pigments) do not mix well, but many dyes actually work quite well. If you would like to try using dyes and will start a topic about the problems you are having, I'm sure folks will try to help you work through the issues you were having.

[ignite]

I LOVE coloured candles!!!! I always pour at the same temp and nothing changes, except the weather!!!! At the moment in Aus its cold and my back room where i make my candles gets really cold over night. I made some a few days ago and forgot to move the candles into another room and as a result I got frosting!!! When I made them in the kitchen I didnt seem to get much frosting at all, on the bottom if anything!! Love my new work area though so I will just have to start using a heater in there!!! lol At the end of the day I'm sure my customers dont mind if there is some frosting. But if the frosting is to bad for my liking then I just sell those ones cheaper or get the store where i sell my stock to burn those ones. Regardless I dont think I will stop with colour!!! I think the key is to experiment with the varibles and see what works and what doesnt. Oh and keep a record of what you did!!!

[LadyJo]

I love colored too but I only do tarts.... not candles. Still I love all the pretty colors.

My question is.... how do you get WHITE ? I use Eco PB and with no dye I get off white or ivory colored. I don't even bother using ivory dye when that's the color I'm after. I only use rediglo dye chips. Is there a supplier out there who offers WHITE dye chips ?

Jo

[Stella1952]

If you *only* use Reddig-glo dye chips, you won't find white.

I use EVO liquid dye http://www.candlewic.com/store/Product.aspx?q=c73,p815

White has titanium dioxide in it and often clogs the wick, so use as little as you can. Be sure to shake the dye thoroughly as it tends to separate out of solution.

Be sure to use UV inhibitor even with uncolored wax because it helps to prevent yellowing and that ugly "old shortening" look that soy wax can get over time. Florescent lighting and sunlight both will affect color, so it's something that should always go in the pot along with the wax, IMHO.

[LadyJo]

Thanks Stella. I may try the liquid white dye.

I do use the UV inhibitor even on the uncolored stuff... on every batch I make. Don't want them fading.

Anyone know the difference in Reddig glo Dye Chips and Diamond Dye Chips ?

After what seems like hours and hours of searching on google for a white dye chip today I've finally managed to find two suppliers that have them. But they both call them Diamond Dye Chips.

Look the same.... but not really much of a description on either site.

Northstar Candle --- pack of 25 for $2.25

General Wax --- pack of 20 for $1.99

I decided to go ahead and order one pack from each company to see if one is better than the other or if neither was worth the purchase. LOL

Jo

EDIT......

I changed my mind.... decided to only order from Northstar Candle. Getting a two dollar pack from General Wax was going to cost almost 10 bucks in shipping... and there was nothing else there I wanted to buy. I found a couple of things at Northstar to make the order worth while so went that way instead.

Will see how it comes out.

Edited August 14, 2011 by LadyJo

[leslee42]

I have more of a frosting problem with my 464 in the winter months and I was about to give up on dye. But what Stella had mentioned about dye kept me trying and so far I have found that I have more positive results using liquid dye than the Reddi-Glo chips. I know it is not Winter yet but I think if I keep a warmer room temp when pouring in the Winter and use the liquid dye I might be frost free... On the other side of the coin I do like and use the natural color of the wax for some of my fragrances. I guess I like both!

[LadyJo]

well.... the Diamond White dye chips didn't do a thing. It's the exact same color as the ones I didn't add any dye at all too. Off white / ivory colored.

Stella... do you use the white liquid from Candlewic ? And if so does it actually make it white ? I'm wanting to make my Baby Powder scented melts white ... not ivory colored.

[Stella1952]

Yes. THIS ONE.

The soy wax I use is already pretty white, so it doesn't take much. Be careful because the titanium dioxide in the white can really clog wicks badly if you have a heavy hand. Actually, when I want a sparkling white candle, I use palm wax with a lilttle white dye. Be sure to use UV inhibitor because white will yellow and that you do not need!!! HTH

[LadyJo]

Yes that helps alot. Guess I'll be placing an order with Candlewic this weekend. And yes, definitely on the UV inhibitor. I don't do wicks but I will still be easy on the amount. Thank you very much !

Jo

[Stella1952]

Oh heck - if you are not going to burn it, load 'er up!!

[LadyJo]

nope... no burning.... just melting ! LOL

[Recyclights]

I've actually been having some better luck with dye lately. I gave up on the dye chips and starting testing with the liquid dyes from Candle Science. The results are much more consistent for me. Currently, I'm using an Eco-Soya CBA/Beeswax blend with various fos.