Slatkin Candles

[rjdaines]

I marvel at the candles that Bath and Body Works sells, not only for the price but at how clean the glass stays as the candle burns. Not one of the soy waxes I have tried keep the glass as clean. Since they don't claim to be all soy but all vegetable, I am assuming that there is some veggie wax in there that is helping. From previous threads here, it also appears that other veggie waxes are expensive (coconut, olive, etc). The wax also doesn't appear to be overly soft. Anyone have any ideas on what they use or what additive might help with this?

[Stella1952]

The wax I use - NatureWax C3 - is labeled "Premium Vegetable Wax" because it has some ingredients that are not soy-based (palm oil, for example, is not soy). Other manufacturers tout the use of "botanical oils" and other happy horsesh*t marketing hype.

As for using other veggie oils - it doesn't take much per candle, ya know. Cottonseed oil is pretty cheap. I don't have much trouble with messy containers using NatureWax C3 and CDN wicks. It has a LOT to do with product testing, wax & wick selection and container selection.

how clean the glass stays as the candle burns

How hot is the container at the bitter end of the candle?

IMHO, customers look more for clean burning (no smoke or soot) container candles which have a great scent throw. They seem to care much less about an absolutely squeaky clean container. Personally, I wouldn't spend a lot of time on this one until after you hit the million-dollar sales mark... Then you can afford your own lab.

[rjdaines]

Most of my candles do finish clean and I can still hold them, the Slatkin one I have not finished as I have way to many to test burn and need time and air for that. I will search for oil addition topics, I know I have seen threads on Coconuts oil and wax, cottonseed sounds interesting if it's the food grade stuff one can buy in the supermarket.

As far as a lab, one can only dream. I get enough dirty looks about the kitchen space take up and have to shrug off comments about wasting time and you'll never make any money doing this. If you doesn't try then you certainly won't succeed. Being a scientist doesn't help either, I can generate more experiments than I have time to test.

Thanks for the reply Stella.

[Candybee]

If you are talking about clean glass as in looks like it came out of the dishwasher clean I find my palm container wax does that. I was floored at how 'clean' looking the glass was when the candle burned down. But palm burns faster than soy and the sides tend to take time 'catching' up as this generally happens after the candle has burned at least halfway down so I doubt they are using all palm.

So my guess is it could be a combo of soy and palm. I would be very surprised if they don't have a custom proprietary blend made just for the company that may be hard to duplicate. With the money they make I'm sure they do.

[bugtussle]

I am burning a Slatkin (Twilight) 4 oz and the big 3-wick (Pom/Lemonade.) The single wick has burned good and left clean sides. I am sure it has a little paraffin in it, maybe 20/30%, no palm. The other is burning too hot, but it burns good. I am impressed with the wicks, maybe Fil-Tec? Slatkin IS competition for us little chandlers, their candles are loaded with FO. IMHO Carole

PS The wax is too soft to have palm in it.

Edited June 7, 2011 by bugtussle

[Sharon in KY]

I am burning a Slatkin (Twilight) 4 oz and the big 3-wick (Pom/Lemonade.) The single wick has burned good and left clean sides. I am sure it has a little paraffin in it, maybe 20/30%, no palm. The other is burning too hot, but it burns good. I am impressed with the wicks, maybe Fil-Tec? Slatkin IS competition for us little chandlers, their candles are loaded with FO. IMHO Carole

PS The wax is too soft to have palm in it.

They have a container non crystallizing palm but the US guys don't carry it. Richard in OZ uses it and says it works great. I got a sample but decided if it isn't easy to get then why test. The soy I use has cotton seed so that's not the secret. Maybe the oil that our Fragrance is blended with makes a bigger difference than we know.

[RichardLOZ]

We use 464, but also mix some non crystalising container palm with it. This works for "our system". Lowers the melt point, increases the HT and the sides of the jar and like a baby's bottom. It did not happen overnight however and took many, many hours and much $ to achieve that outcome....

[rjdaines]

Well, that is unfortunate if we here in the USA can't get the non crystallizing palm wax. I wonder if some other veggie wax can produce a similar result?

[RichardLOZ]

I do believe that somewhere over there sells it. Not sure who or even if it is the same, but I do recall a thread sometime ago where it was mentioned. Might take some searching, but it is here somewhere.

Whether you can or cant get it I guess isn't really the point. You have to work with what is available in your area / country. Trust me we have a much smaller selection to choose from down here, but we make do, and if it is something that I just have to have, then I will bring it in from the States as long as it is cost effective and contributes to our product.

As Stella has mentioned many times, making a great candle is a system, and each persons system is different. Could be wax, wicks, oils, jars, temperature where you live, pour temperature, ambient temperature in the room you are pouring in, etc, etc. There are just so many variables to take into account. Even if you had the exact same wax as I did and I gave you my exact formulation, your result is likely to be different in any case.

Read, research and test is about all you can do to find what works for you? yes it is time consuming, yes it is costly and yes sometimes it can be a total PITA, but thats what it is all about. I am not having a go at you here either by the way, just stating my opinion from things that I have learnt.

Good luck with it all.

[rjdaines]

Thanks for the reply, this is part of developing my system. I have certain goals that I would like to reach in generating a product and understanding how all of these variable interact is a good way of learning how to get to that point. I already see these environment factors at work. Candles that burned well this spring in terms of melt pool depth are now much deeper in the heat of pre-summer. I see more testing coming...

[Candybee]

Any palm mixed with enough of another wax will become 'non-crystalizing'. Eg; if you mixed 75% soy with 25% palm you would not get the trademark crystalization patterns of palm in your candles.

Palm begins to lose its crystalization patterns when 20-25% or more of another wax is blended with it. So a candle that is mostly soy will keep all the characterics of soy but with the benefits of palm. It would still be an all veggie wax. Veggie blends can be very nice, have great throws, less frosting issues, burn 'clean', burn long like soy, etc. But like David mentions it takes work to get the blend just right and the heating and pouring temps down.

[rjdaines]

I feel some experiments on the horizon, 10% palm to 90% GW464 to start. Not sure I would want go beyond 35%; so that is a work able range. Might try coconut wax too, there was a hot thread about that a while ago but haven't heard much about it lately.

[RichardLOZ]

Any palm mixed with enough of another wax will become 'non-crystalizing'. Eg; if you mixed 75% soy with 25% palm you would not get the trademark crystalization patterns of palm in your candles.

Palm begins to lose its crystalization patterns when 20-25% or more of another wax is blended with it. So a candle that is mostly soy will keep all the characterics of soy but with the benefits of palm. It would still be an all veggie wax. Veggie blends can be very nice, have great throws, less frosting issues, burn 'clean', burn long like soy, etc. But like David mentions it takes work to get the blend just right and the heating and pouring temps down.

Yes that is of course true, however mixing any kind of crystalising palm with soy would have the effect of potentially increasing the melt point of the wax due to palm have a much higher melt point than the soy. I can recall doing some experimentation in this area some time ago, and was not really satisfied with the result I was getting. I cant comment any further than that as I didn't really spend any serious time in experimenting and testing, but was doing so to see what I could do about my soy melting during the hot summer months here.

JMHO as usual

[Dana]

Not necessarily. I have tried a blend with that percentage and come out with a candle with frosting and air pockets. So sometimes, it takes on the unwanted characteristics of each wax. It will raise the melt point and make it more difficult to burn...making it tough to wick without smoking...this combo was a challenge for me.

[Sharon in KY]

Non-Crystallizing Palm comes in solid form and you cut/scoop it out. It is nothing like other Palm not even container Palm. They do not produce the same results.

[Candybee]

Yes that is of course true, however mixing any kind of crystalising palm with soy would have the effect of potentially increasing the melt point of the wax due to palm have a much higher melt point than the soy. I can recall doing some experimentation in this area some time ago, and was not really satisfied with the result I was getting. I cant comment any further than that as I didn't really spend any serious time in experimenting and testing, but was doing so to see what I could do about my soy melting during the hot summer months here.

JMHO as usual

Did you try adding 5% container palm to container soy? I would think that the MP would not be raised significantly with a very low percentage of palm added.

When I want to keep soy from melting in the summer heat I add either paraffin or beeswax starting in small increments. With beeswax you need to use very small increments starting at 1-3% but not going over 5% as you may get cracking. With paraffin you can start with 5% and adjust from there.

[Candybee]

Dana--Just wondering what soy and what palm waxes you were using. And was it a container or pillar candle you were testing out? Did you start out with a small amount say 5% palm and adjust from there or go straight to 25% palm?

The 25% I suggested was for the point at which palm will begin to lose its crystalization. I didn't mean you should necessarily use this amount.

Edited June 11, 2011 by Candybee

[RichardLOZ]

Did you try adding 5% container palm to container soy?

Hey Candybee

Yeah I have tried a whole bunch of various %'s added to the soy and was displeased with the results each and every time. It just would not give me the look and quality that I was after. I guess having the non crystalizing palm here has been great for us and we have found that it really works well.

Perhaps adding a % of pillar soy may have the desired effect as it also has a hinger melt point and is a harder wax as well. The other issue is one of cost also. Palm (at least here) is typically about 25% cheaper than soy, so as well as helping with our product immensely it also helps to keep the cost down some.

[rjdaines]

I've kind of lost the meaning of this post now, there are at least 2 issues being talked about a) a clean melt pool similar to what Slatkin gets and adjusting container candle wax hardness to meet warmer weather conditions. Does adding a harder wax (higher melting temp) help with both of these issues or just the weather related one? Is this that the high temp of the melt pool aides in keeping the glass cleaner?

Wonder what shipping costs would be from Australia to Arizona?

[RichardLOZ]

Wonder what shipping costs would be from Australia to Arizona?

You do not want to go there! We sent a 3 x 6 pillar and a few melts across to NJ last year, weight was about 1.2 kg or 3 lb. Shipping cost from Oz to NJ was $48 AUD, so one can only imagine what a 55 lb box would cost to ship

[Candybee]

Its a shame we don't have the non-crystalizing palm wax here in the states. I would like to play around with some.

[RichardLOZ]

I am sure that sometime ago in a thread somewhere, it was mentioned that someone in the US was stocking it. Maybe someone will remember, but this discussion has been had before and I am positive that someone over your parts did find it.