classiccandle Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I'm testing a new wick/wax combination and have poured a couple of candles with different size wicks but no dye or FO, just wax and wick. How long should I wait for the candles to cool before testing to see which wick will work best? (Sorry for the alliteration)...lolThank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SliverOfWax Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 As soon as it completely cools, but unless you intend to make unscented candles, you're merely wasting wax and wicks. Once you add FO and/or dye, everything changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisR Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Once the candle is totally cooled, fire it up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wessex Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 What type of wax? Remember to always include the details of the candle/tart/soap/ that you are asking questions about :smiley2:. I'm going to assume you are using soy. With no additives, you don't need to concern yourself with curing for optimum scent throw, but I am not really sure if soy needs to cure for any other reasons (as I have always cured because of FO). That being said, I would give it a day at least. But somebody who has more knowledge on soy may want to chime in here. I know with palm wax, I have gotten repeatable test results with unscented candles with 1 day wait.Cheers,Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bella Rose Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Be aware that if you don't let your soy harden completely, it will tunnel and put itself out! 18 hours wasn't enough time for me in a mild climate lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) I wait 48 hours before testing unscented soy candles. This is simply to allow the newly formed crystal structure of the wax to harden somewhat. I wait 5-7 days with palm wax because the crystals are pretty soft at first.I think learning about the performance of your wax without additives of any kind is a great place to start. Sure, you'll have to retest when you begin adding FOs, dyes, etc., but you will learn a lot and have a baseline for your expectations and new observations. Adding new things one at a time makes it pretty obvious what's causing any new issues that crop up. I never consider testing a waste of materials because I always learn something. Good luck - hope you're having fun! Edited February 10, 2011 by Stella1952 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SliverOfWax Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 And just how many times does one need to test an unscented candle?lolYou've got your wax. You've got your container. You've got your wicks.Let's assume your unscented candle in a jelly jar tested perfectly with, oh, let's say HTP 73.Now you add fragrance.Oopsie...that HTP 73 doesn't work anymore.What was the point?There wasn't one.A lot of suppliers have 'guessing' guides on their websites. Move on to the real thing. There's no real point in piddling around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wessex Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I test unscented candles because: 1 - some customers have requested them. 2 - it gives me a good baseline with a certain container to help with wicking issues that may pop up with some FO's.For instance, if I can't get a good burn with an FO at 6% because I would need an "in-between" wick, would cutting the FO to 5.5% or 5% get me a good burn (assuming the HT is still there). I have found that knowing how the unscented wax burns gives me a good idea of how much to cut the FO percentage. I don't think testing unscented candles is a waste of time at all. It adds to my knowledge of the burn characteristics of the wax and container.Cheers,Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 And just how many times does one need to test an unscented candle?As many times as one deems necessary.Move on to the real thing. There's no real point in piddling around. I don't consider testing and learning "piddling around." I wish more people would do so - that way products on the market would be of higher quality.How long should I wait for the candles to cool before testing to see which wick will work best?Above is the OPs question, not whether you consider her testing method a waste of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SliverOfWax Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Above is the OPs question, not whether you consider her testing method a waste of time.Apparently you missed this:but no dye or FO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Apparently you missed this:but no dye or FOI saw that. It wasn't part of the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricofAZ Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I have to weigh in on the baseline testing.You can write all the notes you want, but no note will ever encompass all that the human brain can comprehend about a test burn with a baseline wax/container.I've gotten to where I just know how a wax should react to a burn and can tell when it is not burning the same after I altered it. (Not all waxes of course, only the ones I use regularly.)So when I find that dye has no effect on wicks, I toss that out as a variable. When I find that most FO's have the same requirement for a different wick, and they are all pretty much stable, so be it. Then there is the odd FO that does not follow the pattern and I know I have to alter the wick.Additives like vybar have a substantial change. How do I know? I know the baseline of how the wax responds.I commend anyone who tests candles with just pure wax and wick and container and "gets to know" their wax.It is work, it is not wasted work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ring of Fire Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 The question was how long to wait before burning the unscented wax. What reason would you have for waiting days? Burn the thing as soon as it is cooled. And how many times does one have to test an unscented candle for crying out loud? I feel sorry for some of these new people jumping on board. What with tempering, seeding, and whatever new words crop up every few months it's back to college for an engineering degree to be able to make a candle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsadler05 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 What with tempering, seeding, and whatever new words crop up every few months it's back to college for an engineering degree to be able to make a candle.As it should be when these people are selling to consumers who put forth their hard earned money as well as their trust that they are buying quality products.How many duds have been sold because of laziness and lack of due diligence? More importantly, how many lives have been risked by fires originating from poorly tested/made candles?It is sad to see that so many people have lost the values of quality, workmanship and responsibility because they are too lazy to do the testing or too selfish to make a quick buck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImKarenAnne Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Amen Mrsadler! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SliverOfWax Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Yep. I'm lazy and selfish. Meanwhile, I've got a business to run.See ya. Wouldn't want to be ya! :p:p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classiccandle Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Thank you all for your input. It's quite obvious that we have differing opinions when it comes to making candles. That's a good thing as different ideas and concepts can sometimes lead to new and exciting discoveries. As for my reason for testing just wax and wick without dye and FO, I have but one:With a background in information technology I've come to be very analytical, almost to a fault. As I've learned there can be many reasons why a candle isn't performing properly. Understanding every step of the process from the very beginning to the very end helps in pinpointing a cause (just as it does in the IT world). I don't consider any part of the learning process to be a waste of time but rather each step reinforces my understanding and ability to make a great product. I also consider it a vital part of customer service that my customers are assured that I know what I'm doing.It's a strange dichotomy we experience when those outside this business are mocked and ridiculed for thinking that all there is to this business is melting some wax and throwing a wick in it when the same mockery and ridicule happens to those who wish to understand the craft as much as the seasoned chandlers. I'm glad for those seasoned chandlers who have mastered their process and are building a thriving business. As for us "newbies", we're only trying to learn and grow just as you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsadler05 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Yep. I'm lazy and selfish. Meanwhile, I've got a business to run.See ya. Wouldn't want to be ya! :p:pAnd I would not want to be a customer of yours if this is your philosophy and business ethic.Make it a great day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SliverOfWax Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 The question was how long to wait before burning the unscented wax. What reason would you have for waiting days? Burn the thing as soon as it is cooled. And how many times does one have to test an unscented candle for crying out loud? I feel sorry for some of these new people jumping on board. What with tempering, seeding, and whatever new words crop up every few months it's back to college for an engineering degree to be able to make a candle.I, too, feel sorry for them. They will never get off first base. Unfortunately, all the dithering won't make a better, safer candle. It kinda makes me think of making a cake without the eggs and flour. Seems to me it would be better to start with ALL the ingredients and then test to perfection. It's not really about knowledge. It's about making people think you have knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsadler05 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Classic,I think you understand this business better than many that are already in business. It is your understanding and respect for research and quality control that will make you a success and instill customer confidence and loyalty once you are confident that you have produced a consistently high quality and safe product.As you can see from posts by Steve (Wessex), Bella Rose, Stella and EricofAz, research, then testing and continuous re-testing of your products is the most important factor in making a reliable, quality product. I firmly believe in baby steps. Start with the plain wax to get a general idea of wick size. Add one ingredient at a time to see how that alters your burn. Once you add your fragrance, you will more than likely have to test wicks again for ultimate ht and burn.You can't write a book if you don't know the alphabet. A professional, scientific approach should be taken when making candles. Too much is at risk if you jump in to making candles, gloss over the most important test phase then bring your product straight to market to make a quick buck. What if someone were to sue you because they were injured or had property damage because your candle caught on fire? If you don't have your research and testing documented, you won't have a leg to stand on.To answer your question about how long the candle should cure first, I would trust Stella's advice and reasoning and wait at least 48 hours for set-up. She has put in the time and research required to be truly successful. But the best thing you can do is pour a few plain testers. Burn one at 24 hours cure time, another at 48 hours and maybe another at 72 hours depending on the results and differences you see with the previous testers. This will give you a basic idea of how your chosen wax will set up in your climate under the same weather conditions. (Climate changes is a whole other topic).Once you achieve a good, even burn, test another. Then move on to stage 2: add an ingredient and repeat the testing. You will see that once you add fragrance, your cure time could take from a couple of day to a couple of weeks depending on your fo.Best of luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsadler05 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Ignorance is bliss for some people, I suppose.I sure hope they are insured. :laugh2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck_35550 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) The secret to this business is to pick your wax an stay with it until you learn all there is to know about it. How are you going to test each and every batch of wax and each and every fo each and every time you order it? Formulas change and wax certainly has variations that only somone with a practised eye would be able to detect and make the corrections. These people who jump around from one wax, wick and fo to another, never learn the basics of the medium. Make the candle and burn it and see what it does as a complete system. Trying to pin this down is worthless IMHO, just do it. Peace out.Steve Edited February 10, 2011 by chuck_35550 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SliverOfWax Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 The secret to this business is to pick your wax an stay with it until you learn all there is to know about it. How are you going to test each and every batch of wax and each and every fo each and every time you order it? Formulas change and wax certainly has variations that only somone with a practised eye would be able to detect and make the corrections. These people who jump around from one wax, wick and fo to another, never learn the basics of the medium. Make the candle and burn it and see what it does as a complete system. Trying to pin this down is worthless IMHO, just do it. Peace out.SteveI test every batch of wax with a proven good seller and go from there. Wax has definitely changed over the years. The wicks that were my mainstays 5 years ago are rarely used these days. Unfortunately, fo formulas change, too. So far, I haven't come across one that changed for the better.It's a pain in the butt, but very necessary. When choosing who to listen to, it's probably best to go with someone who has a lot of repeat customers and a history of success instead of someone who merely bloviates and spends time worrying about wax properties. Unfortunately, it's nearly impossible for newbies to figure that out. I feel for them. They won't be around in a year if they listen to the wrong people. That's why post count and forum join date is extremely misleading and newbies would be advised to discount those factors.The mantra I've had for years was stolen from Nike: Just Do It! Those of us who've been around a long time really do want to help the newbies but only those who are willing to listen to and not be mislead by bull****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck_35550 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I have plenty of repeat customers and am no more a blowhard than some others on this board. I'm just saying that you asked about procedure in testing and you got responses. I bet you do just as you are and really wouldn't expect otherwise. I'm encouraging you to stick with your chosen medium and learn it well enough to be confident. I don't get a medal if you think this is wise advise and certainly understand that some people think they know it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SliverOfWax Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Tsk tsk. It's not you I am calling a blowhard. Don't be paranoid, now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.