How do they get this effect?

[RichardLOZ]

We saw these candles locally in a store. Made in California by AlohaBay and retailing here for $12.50.

1) How the hell do they retail at that price, given they would also have to be shipped from the US to Australia.

2) The top of the candle does indeed look like palm, however the crystal pattern on the sides is not really well defined and it does not really behave like palm when burning (although it does appear to be extremely over wicked with a flame about 1 1/2 - 2 inches high when lit)

3) How the hell do they get that pattern through the jar. It looks like layers, however they also seem to be somewhat curved so no idea how they have achieved that effect - any ideas?

[nursenancy]

They are definitely palm wax - I looked at their website. Pretty candles and very reasonably priced..

I'm thinking they must do some type of swirl technique by tilting the jar while the wax is hot, although it looks so even even and uniform. Maybe some type of machine. Can you tell if that curved effect goes all the way through the candle?

Plus it's probably just the crystalizing palm and not glass glow.

Edited January 17, 2011 by nursenancy

[LuminousBoutique]

chill the glasss and pour slowly, so it cools on the side in sort of "layers" the way a cold pillar mold can? not really sure!!

[Stella1952]

Those are tilties. It's the same basic technique used to make tilted pillars.

(basic instructions are found HERE). They are layered palm wax candles poured on the cool side. Cooling the glass is unnecessary and would probably mess up the wax (this is palm wax, not paraffin). I don't cool or warm the molds when I make tiltie palm pillars. Because those layers are so uniform, my guess is that they have a wood jig of some sort that holds the glass at an angle. The swirl look is achieved by slightly repositioning the jar. The layers are poured one at a time until the last layer, when the jar is removed from the jig onto a level surface to pour the top layer.

As for the appearance, when palm wax is poured cool, it loses much of its crystalization and appears more translucent. It also begins to show "jump lines". The colors appear to be different shades because the temperature varied slightly between layers (although one could use different colors). The darker appearing layers were slightly cooler than the lighter ones.

If you click on the individual candles on their site, a larger picture of the candle will open and you can see the details of the wax better...

http://www.alohabay.com/products/candles/gemtonejars/gemtone_jars.html

Palm wax is VERY fun wax to play with, It's capable of so much more than just the showy crystals most folks enjoy. Ya gotta play with it, Richard!

PS As to how they sell at that price, those folks have been doing this for a long time and make a buttload of candles! Here's a link to business discussion on their site:

http://www.alohabay.com/planet/index.html

Their remarks seem more balanced and informed than recent comments about palm wax from a popular former supplier...

Edited January 17, 2011 by Stella1952

[EricofAZ]

I don't know about crystalizing palm. I have that and it pulls away from the mold/container big time. I use that characteristic to pour another layer and let the new layer go down the sides.

Looks more like feathering palm, or probably GG but I agree, it is a tilted technique and the top definitely looks like palm.

This is doable in a container. I tried it in a pillar and found that you can't let the layer set up all the way before pouring the next layer because the pillar will separate there.

I also think that there has to be a rocking motion to get the rounded look. I do that on pillars sometimes.

Edited January 17, 2011 by EricofAZ

[Stella1952]

Looks more like feathering palm, or probably GG

After reading on the Aloha Bay website, I don't think they are using the same ol', same ol' palm wax blends as we are - they are sourcing their own formulas. They have a lab and stuff. I learned a LOT tonight by reading their site! They've been into palm wax for many mango seasons...

It's absolutely doable in a container - I make layered container palm wax candles with IGI 2322A (Glass Glow). You can pour level layers, or you can tilt them. It's far easier to use a container blend (rather than a pillar blend) to prevent the layers from overrunning the way that pillars do when allowed to become too cool between pours. By varying the pour temp, you can change the appearance of the wax.

Edited January 17, 2011 by Stella1952

[RichardLOZ]

They are interesting candles to say the least. Tilties are one thing, but just they way they have manage to almost have it rounded at the top of the layer rather than flat I find very interesting.

I am currently playing with container palm, just straight colours right now till I get the damn wicking down correctly. Its interesting how different oils react in different waxes. For 2 oils that I wick the same in my soy / palm blend for my apothecary jars which burn perfectly, I now need 2 different wick sizes for those oils in palm. Not only that, but I am also finding that I may need different size wicks in the same scent for both the smaller and larger jar which are the same diameter.

Ahhh I guess thats why we love testing so much, the science and the surprises that are thrown at you.

However they do it is very effective. As far as the price goes, they have to be landing in Australia for less than $6 a piece INCLUSIVE of shipping. We just cant compete against that kind of pricing.

The only complaints I would have about them is that they have a very large flame and almost no HT, unless my nose is on holidays...LOL. Cold throw however is awesome, which is one of the reason that Tracy bought one.

Thanks for the info and thoughts

[KoalaGirl]

Richard, that jar looks very tall and narrow. I would be interested to know how it burns towards bottom half. Im not familiar with palm wax but if the wick was initially over an inch high, wouldnt it burn very hot further down?

[RichardLOZ]

Yes I reckon it is going to. have only burnt the top right now and its a huge flame from my perspective. Burning very nicely apart from the size of the flame.

With the jar being so narrow, this may have the effect of extinguishing the flame quite a bit as it burns down due to less oxygen supply, which could be the reason it is wicked like it is.

Perhaps they have wicked it for the last half of the jar which would be correct, however fro my liking, I feel that the flame is way too big for the top half of the jar.

Will let you know how it goes.

[Dana]

Interesting to read about the big guys. Their wholesale pricing is amazing (50% off retail) considering they practice fair trade and give an 8% frieght allowance on orders over $250. You know they get their Palm wax REALLY cheap since they buy it directly from plantations in Malaysia.

[Candybee]

CSN wicks from CS are specially treated for use in GG palm. The flames are typically very tall and bothered me a lot at first when I started using them in my container palm candles. So I am not surprised they would use a wick that happens to burn tall. Not saying it's not overwicked. If it is too tall that would be an indicator that it may be overwicked.

That is a nice design. Wonder if it is done by machine or manually. I tend to think manully as if you look closely at it the layers are not all uniformly spaced. To me that just adds to the uniqueness of the layer design.

[Stella1952]

CSN wicks from CS are specially treated for use in GG palm. The flames are typically very tall

On the Aloha Bay website, they say that they custom order their wicks from a German wick manufacturer, so that could be either Wedo or Heinz Verhaegh. This isn't just a characteristic of CSN wicks - I see this with CDs & CDNs, too. I think it's more of a characteristic of how palm wax burns. I see this in pillar waxes as well as IGI 2322R (Glass Glow). Glass Glow is worse about this trait, though. I feel sure that they have their wax blended to their specs, so even if it is not quite the same as what we have commercially available, I think that the stuff added to change the palm wax's properties from pillar style to container wax must be similar. I think that stuff, whatever it is, is what causes the flames to be so high at first. They do settle down after a few burns.

Is the flame height settling down on your candle, Richard?

I'm with you, Candybee, on the pouring - I think they are not machine made but are hand poured with one of those cool dispensing units (like this for example). One of the things that makes tilties and layered candles difficult for me to pour is that my pour pot tends to drip sometimes, especially when pouring so many successive layers. To "erase" my booboos, I have to wipe the inside so it won't show on the finished product. I can't imagine that when doing production work that they have the time to do this, so this leads me to believe they are using a dispenser with a nozzle (the lucky ducks!).

Interesting to read about the big guys.

I agree, Dana. I admire their operation very much!

[RichardLOZ]

Is the flame height settling down on your candle, Richard?

I have no idea as yet. Tracy has put the candle somewhere and I cant find it to continue the burn...LOL. Will have to check with her tonight and have her find it so as I can continue to burn it and will let you know.