Curing time for discounted CP's?

[Toni S.]

I've been making my CP's with the 50/50 water discount for quite sometime and always try to have stock on hand but yesterday I got a call from a customer wanting a sizeable amount of CP and she wants it like right now?? My question is, how long should a person wait to actually use the discounted CP so it has cured sufficiently? TIA

[TallTayl]

The same length of time as non-water discounted actually.

If she needs it now, how about HP? Even HP needs a couple of weeks to hit its peak, but at least it's 'finished', if you will.

[Toni S.]

I was always under the assumption that was the reason for discounting the water? Faster curing time??

[Scented]

No it doesn't decrease cure time.

The soonest I let CP go is four weeks, but six weeks is optimal.

[Toni S.]

Then why the water discount????????? WTH??

[TallTayl]

Then why the water discount????????? WTH??

There are so many variables to saponification (your formula, the temperatures your batch achieves and length of time at higher temperatures, gel/non-gel, how long the ingredients are mixed/blended, how well the ingredients are mixed/blended, etc, etc, etc.). I personally don't push the lye solution envelope far beyond 40%, more often using 33-35% to ensure the lye crystals/flakes remain in solution without becoming supersaturated and potentially precipitating out of solution.

IME, using a water discount does several things. First, the freshly cut bars are closer to their final weights they will be after adequate curing. I have weighed several bars from batches with different water discounts over the course of several months. Those without water discounts lost more water weight over time; some actually achieved the 'shrunken head' look at the end.

Second, stronger lye solution concentrations help to achieve emulsion and trace more quickly. This is especially important to me when making castiles or bastiles that are high in slow-tracing oils such as Olive. The combination of higher temperature and stronger solution saves me a LOT of time getting a stable emulsification and thicker trace without burning out stick blenders.

There's no substitute for time.

Edited November 24, 2010 by TallTayl
typo

[MissMori]

What Scented and TallTayl said.

Some soap maker's discount thinking they will get harder soap faster, like instantly fast. This doesn't necessarily work.

Curing is about more than the soap being hard and long lasting. Soaps that are allowed to cure for longer periods of time seems to be less harsh.

If you do decide to sell your soap before the standard cure time for you, you may be shooting yourself in the foot if your customer doesn't like it.

[Toni S.]

Thanks everyone for your advice!! I have all the fragrances she wants except one so I'll tell her to hold off on using that batch until it's cured.

[Scented]

For me, less water does lead to a quicker trace. I don't use full water on anything unless the fragrance is known mover typically. This is just me. There's less there to evaporate I suppose, but soap is still best with a six-week cure, though four isn't too bad either.

This is me!

[Kitn]

I agree with scented 6 weeks cure is what I strive for, 4 weeks minimum.

[8-GRAN-ONES]

i agree with the 4-6 wks cure time..as they are better in every way..

I have used my own, in 2 wks..just because I couldn't wait to try a new scent..but I would NEVER give to anyone until they are cured at least 4 wks..

I also would not sell soap, and tell them not to use it until it is cured..

[IwantItgreen]

Was searching when I come across this thread about soaping 50/50. FLicker states that cure is within a week or two when soaped that way. Read all about it here: http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67333&page=2

[MissMori]

Was searching when I come across this thread about soaping 50/50. FLicker states that cure is within a week or two when soaped that way. Read all about it here: http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67333&page=2

I can only report to you my experience, no one else's... here goes...

For a harder bar right out of the mold you can do any of the following following:

1. Gel your soaps. This does require allowing the soap to go through the gel process and cool, at least I allow mine to cool;

2. Use a more concentrated lye solution (50% water/50% NaOH);

3. Use a bit of salt in the water before adding lye (1/2 to 1 tsp ppo.);

4. Use a very high percentage of hard fats (coconut, pko, beeswax, steric acid, etc.)

Best results for me is to do 1&2 together. Great big ol' caveat ***IT DEPENDS ON THE OILS YOU USE***.

I recently did this with by basic soap and had a rock hard bar after 4 hours. (I soap at about 95F to 100F.) It was almost too hard to cut with my Tank after 18 hours. Would I do this again? Yes, but only with fo's I know will not accelerate.

Now, about cure. I am still letting all my rock hard, almost too hard to cut soap cure for a minimum of 4 weeks. I do so, because I think my soap is less harsh after 4 weeks. Is it absolutely necessary, no. Would I sell it, no.

Later today I need to test a new silicon mold I made. I'm going to do a true castille with a 50/50 lye solution. In the past for my castille, I've always use a ratio of 38% NaOH to 62% water for my lye solution. I'll report back.

[MissMori]

My castille with a 50/50 lye solution.

Trace: It traced much faster than a lye solution with more water.

Hardness: At 6 hours after pouring it was about as hard as room temperature butter, perhaps a bit harder.

At 30 hours it is actually pretty hard. I'd say about as hard as refrigerated butter. BUT it is not hard enough to use. I'm going to cut at 48 hours.

[LuminousBoutique]

yep with castile I always use 50/50, otherwise in this cold weather it can take DAYS to cut. With a nice warm room and a 50/50, I can cut my castile in 24 hours. I made the mistake of doing full water on a castile once and it was two weeks before I could cut it. NEVER AGAIN:angry2: lol

[smittenheart]

i agree with the 4-6 wks cure time..as they are better in every way..

I have used my own, in 2 wks..just because I couldn't wait to try a new scent..but I would NEVER give to anyone until they are cured at least 4 wks..

I also would not sell soap, and tell them not to use it until it is cured..

ya know..I see this a lot where soapers sell their soaps with a 'do not use by' date on them..and I personally dont see WHY they do this..

I mean I get that time at my house - time at your house..tomatoe,tomato.. but REALLY whats the rush??!!

[MissMori]

ya know..I see this a lot where soapers sell their soaps with a 'do not use by' date on them..and I personally dont see WHY they do this..

They either didn't plan well and therefore didn't have cured soap to sell OR they think that they have to make the sale RIGHT NOW, especially if it is to a wholesale customer.

When I first started making soap and coming to the forums, there were soap makers that heavily discounted water and did a 2% to 3% lye discount, hoping to get a rock hard bar instantly without using a high percentage of coconut, pko or waxes. I also recall a particular soap maker that would make, unmold, cut and ship her soap on the same day. Still WET! Her thoughts were that by the time the soap arrived a week later, it would be "dry enough." I don't even want to imagine how harsh her soap was. The thought of a 2% or 3% lye discount makes my skin itch. I think that this is where coconut oil got a bad rap and had many soap "experts" claiming over and over again that coconut is drying or irritates the skin.