T-light caught fire

[KoalaGirl]

Hi everyone. There was a nasty incident at work today involving one of my scented t-lights. I often burn a t-light in my office but I was in a different office today. I had left a t-light half full, a few days ago, in my 'regular' office. The girl in that office today, decided to light up the t-light. She had it in a wine glass and {not sure how long it had been burning for} the wax caught fire. She tried to blow it out but couldnt, so carried it to the sink and turned on the water onto it. The result was singed hair.

A witness to the event said that the the flame leapt up really big when the water hit it {must have been huge to reach her hair}.

Ok she learned her lessen re: water on an oil fire but what would have caused the wax to catch fire?? Ive burned hundreds and not had that happen.

I examined the t-light cup and the tab was still stuck on the bottom, with a little bit of {black} wick remaining. Im wondering if the t-light cup was tilted, since the bottom of the wine glass is not flat and that the wick was curled over and came into contact with the wax that was pooled on one side of the lopsided t-light cup.

The tab was a regular one and the t-light cup was an 8 hour one {tin}, about 1inch tall.

It was pretty darn freaky that that could happen. Just goes to show how important it is to never ever ever leave candles unattended.

Has this ever happened to anyone else before? Has anyone any clues as to why it may have happened?

I am going to see if I can re-create the incident. I definately dont want my t-lights spontaneously combusting!

Thanks for any insight.

Oh its soy wax. The girl is ok, just greatful she still has her eyebrows!

[Starr]

Okay, probably not the case but the only thing I can come up with is this...

Is it possible that maybe you mismeasured your FO in that particular batch? It seems so strange to me that water didn't just put the flame out, there had to be an abundance of oil (or so my brain tells me anyway).

Have you had problems with any of the other tea lights in that batch?

[topofmurrayhill]

It seems so strange to me that water didn't just put the flame out, there had to be an abundance of oil

Soy wax is oil, so there's always an abundance. When you add water to burning oil, it explodes in a fireball.

We've had people with tins that caught fire, so it's not too shocking to hear about it happening with a metal tealight cup. We don't know anything about the amount of FO, but it certainly could lower the flashpoint of the mixture. The wicking could be an issue too, since metal containers can get pretty hot.

I think that putting the candle in a wine glass could easily have played a role, since it might have been tilted and air currents could also have been pushing the flame to the side. The flame could have heated up the metal cup to the point of igniting the candle mixture. That's my major suspicion.

Edited January 24, 2010 by topofmurrayhill

[Stella1952]

Has this ever happened to anyone else before? Has anyone any clues as to why it may have happened?

Here's a similar experience:

http://www.planetfeedback.com/index.php?level2=blog_viewpost&topic_id=322129&reply_id=270549

Using a wine glass to contain a tealight was foolish because the bottom is not level. The wax had to reach its flashpoint, which in the case of soy waxes is more than 500°F+ (NatureWax C3 is in excess of 600°F). Perhaps the shape of the wineglass helped to concentrate the heat produced by the flame...

She had it in a wine glass and {not sure how long it had been burning for} the wax caught fire. She tried to blow it out but couldnt, so carried it to the sink and turned on the water onto it...A witness to the event said that the the flame leapt up really big when the water hit it

Well, she pretty much did everything one should NOT do when trying to extinguish an oil fire!! She is very lucky she got away with only singed hair!!! All the gal needed to do was set something on top of the wine glass and the fire would have extinguished within seconds.

• Never attempt to blow it out - this can actually spread the fire.

• Never pick up anything containing a fire and attempt to walk with it. The flaming oil or material can flare up and cover you with flames!

• Never put water on an oil fire! Water is heavier than oil (or wax) and will simply allow the flaming oil to spread. In a confined container, the water turns to steam, expands rapidly, causing a fireball to leap many feet into the air!

• Smother the fire. Once extinguished, keep the container covered for 10-15 minutes to be sure the oil has cooled enough not to reignite as soon as the cover is lifted.

• Use a dry chemical extinguisher or dry baking soda or salt.

It seems so strange to me that water didn't just put the flame out

Proof that folks need to brush up on their fire extinguishing knowledge - it may save your life!! Water is not appropriate for oil fires. EVER!

Some YouTube videos for fireball unbelievers...

[KoalaGirl]

Thanks everyone!

Ok, I think the 'wine' glass is a definate suspect. It was actually a sherry glass, much smaller than a wine glass, not leaving much room at the sides of the t-light but coming up over the top edge of the t-light by about an inch, and curving in at the top slightly. The t-light was at least 3/4 burnt down and producing a fair bit of heat by then. I think the shape of the glass could have concentrated the heat in and back down towards the wax?

I just did a test of a similar t-light only put it, slightly tilted, into a normal sized wine glass, {no sherry drinkers here}. The wick came into contact with the melted wax but just went out. The wax didnt get time to get terribly hot before it extinguished.

I do use all the same sized wicks with all FO's in my t-lights and some FO's do get hotter than others but Ive always used a t-light holder so it hasnt been a problem. I will burn a t-light in the offending FO tomorrow {better not do it at work!!!} and see if that is a hotter burning FO.

A number of things could have contributed to the ''near disaster'' #1 a tilted t-light cup #2 Too big a wick e.g wax very hot #3 The shape of the glass ''holder'' causing a build up of heat.

I had used %10 FO

Anyways, ''Its an ill wind''as they say. The girl who put the t-light under the tap and got the shock of her life, was recently made 2nd in charge of Occupational Health and Safety {no previous experience}. Part of her duties includes teaching fire safety! She will now have a personal experience to relate, when she's drumming it into the other 250 staff about the dangers of putting out oil fires with water!

Thanks again, its a massive help being able to get advice from others who are ''reading the same book'', particulary if they are quite a few chapters ahead of me.

Heres a very interesting link and vid about the dangers of NOT putting a t-light in a holder. I wonder how many people dont realize how important it is??

http://www.herts24.co.uk/content/comet/news/story.aspx?brand=CMTOnline&category=News&tBrand=herts24&tCategory=newscomnew&itemid=WEED12%20Mar%202008%2010%3A50%3A18%3A333

[LuminousBoutique]

Heres a very interesting link and vid about the dangers of NOT putting a t-light in a holder. I wonder how many people dont realize how important it is??

http://www.herts24.co.uk/content/comet/news/story.aspx?brand=CMTOnline&category=News&tBrand=herts24&tCategory=newscomnew&itemid=WEED12%20Mar%202008%2010%3A50%3A18%3A333

Thats a fantastic link, I mention this to people all the time but I often wonder how many actually take the advice.

[Candybee]

Wow! Thats some story. It never occurred to me to use anything but a a tea light holder for a tea light candle. I guess I am just too safety aware to try anything else.

I thought it was just common sense not to put out a candle fire with water. Maybe I am just more aware of the danger because I make candles. Its scary to think what some people will do with your candles.

[Stella1952]

The girl who put the t-light under the tap and got the shock of her life, was recently made 2nd in charge of Occupational Health and Safety {no previous experience}

ABSOLUTELY terrifying to think that someone with NO EXPERIENCE could be even remotely involved with safety!! Sure she'll have an experience to share, but she should have knowledge of a subject before becoming a classified employee in the field!!

***shakes head***

I had used %10 FO

What soy wax were you using with 10% FO?

I wonder how many people dont realize how important it is??

The idiocy with which people use FIRE in their homes leaves me speechless... Selling to the general public absolutely scares me to death for this reason! I want people to enjoy my candles and pay attention to them, not light 'em, forget 'em and burn their freakin' houses down with 'em. This is why torture testing is soooo important. One has to know how their candles will perform if people ignore all the instructions! Having liability insurance is a MUST!! Edited January 24, 2010 by Stella1952

[Abbiepql]

10% FO seems like an awful lot of FO to me!

[NaturallyTru]

Could the plastic tealight cup have caught on fire?

A year after I started making candles (2001), I was re-melting a small amount of wax on the stove. It was such a small amount I figured, just a quick zap. Well somehow I got myself distracted and went into another room. While there saw a spot on the carpet and plugged in the vacuum that was sitting there. I suddenly smelled something funny. Followed my nose to the kitchen to see smoke coming from the pot on the stove! I immediately panicked and instinctively took the pot to the sink and turned on the faucet. Poof! Huge fireball! It sent little flaming balls of wax all over. I started screaming for my son to grab the phone and get out of the house. But as soon as the wax hit something, they went out. My curtains got singed. I started crying and called my grandparents. I was almost hysterical. I was going to take every supply and put it to the curb. My grandparents came over and grandma calmed me down and made me make another candle -taking my time. I did this and I KNEW better!!!

Trudi

[topofmurrayhill]

Yeah, 10% is a little extreme. It might have caught fire anyway, but with that FO load some fragrances are gonna be a lot more prone to it.

Ever seen what happens when you overheat fragranced wax? Long before the wax starts to smoke, FO vapors start rising from it like from a pot of hot water. Just combine that with an enclosed space and a source of ignition. Pooft.

I think the most likely way for the wax to get hot enough is heat conducted by the metal cup down to the wax. If the flame tilts over or blows sideways it can heat the metal to hundreds of degrees in a short time.

One important practice on the side of safety is to make sure that little candles are always designed to self-trim, so the flame never gets too large no matter how long they burn. It's just another factor in your favor.

Edited January 24, 2010 by topofmurrayhill

[KoalaGirl]

The wax was Ecosoya Pillar blend which their web site says holds %10-%12 fragrance oil. The cup was an aluminium 8 hour {approx 1 inch tall} The FO was Cedarwood Vanilla and the wick was a CDN 4.

I find that many FO's need a high % to give a decent throw in a t-light cup.

I have to admit, that prior to yesterdays 'mishap' I couldnt say for sure that I would not have done the same thing in a panic {put it under a tap}. Its one thing to have read about all the right and wrong things to do but without having experienced the WRONG way,first hand, like I did yesterday, I may well have, in a split second decision, connected water with putting fire out!

One very valuable lesson learned!

This may be a stupid question: If water splashes on a candle flame {just the wick is alight and not the wax} what will happen? I suspect that the flame will go out with out the 'fireball' effect because the wax is not on fire. I intend to do it and see what happens but does anyone know if I should increase my house insurance and evacuate the neighborhood before I do it??

[KoalaGirl]

Update: Last night I burned a T-light from the same batch. This time it was in a regular t-light holder. Even down to the end, the cup was never so hot that I couldnt hold it in my hand.

[Stella1952]

If water splashes on a candle flame {just the wick is alight and not the wax} what will happen?

The potential is similar. How would you simply keep the water on the wick? Edited January 25, 2010 by Stella1952

[topofmurrayhill]

This may be a stupid question: If water splashes on a candle flame {just the wick is alight and not the wax} what will happen?

It will be totally unspectacular unless the candle has somehow gotten crazy hot. The wick may sputter out if you hit it. Water that falls into the wax will settle to the bottom.

Lots of candles get water in them. The citronella candle outside. Candles in food service situations. Some bars and restaurants put water in the votive candles on purpose.

The burning oil situation is different. The temperature is hundreds of degrees. The water vaporizes just about instantly, blowing steam and oil out of the container. The oil may already be at auto-ignition temperature, but that probably isn't even necessary to create the fireball because the mist will ignite in a chain reaction.

Edited January 25, 2010 by topofmurrayhill