removing palm wax tarts from bowl......again

[Debbie73]

Apparently there is a difference in palm wax from bag to bag. I have now made tarts from 3 different batches of palm wax. The first batch the tart slid right of the bowl when I wanted to change my scent. The second one, I had to put it in the freezer and then get a knife and pry it out. Now, with having made tarts with this new batch of wax, they are once again sliding right out of the bowl.

Does anyone know if additives are added to the palm wax? I am pleading ignorant on this because I am confused. When I called Candle Science about the ones sticking, I was told that actually, it was unusual for them to pop out of the tart warmer bowl.

Deb :confused:

[Stella1952]

I am assuming you are using a pillar/votive formula for making your tarts. If you are using a container blend, don't do dat. It's not suitable for this purpose. Unless you are using a container formula palm wax, I don't think the wax is your problem.

If I am understanding you correctly, you are making tarts in molds, then melting them in a warmer. Some stick when you are ready to discard them & some don't. Correct?

Here's what I think may be going on:

Some FOs may become stickier than do others after heating/reheating over a period of hours due to evaporation & the actual composition of the FO used. This could leave a slightly sticky residue on the bow that is causing the wax to stick or not to contract the way pillar palm wax normally does. I have used oil warmers in the past and those become quite sticky after a few heats/reheats.

While people may like palm wax to simply pop out of a warmer bowl, I don't think that's how it's actually supposed to work. The old wax should be poured out while liquid and the bowl should be wiped out while still quite warm. This helps to ensure that you begin with a residue-free bowl. HTH

[Debbie73]

Stella, I am using the feather palm from Candle Science and I make tarts using the metal tart molds.

The first time they stuck was with a new batch of feather palm. They stuck no matter what FO, I used. Now I have a new batch of feather wax and I thought I would just try and see if they would stick with it. I used Orange Vanilla and after I let it cool down, it had shrunk away, lifting right out of the bowl, go figure.

I know I am making waaaaay toooo much out of this, so.....I think I will slink back to my little hole!

Thank you, Stella!

[judys]

I have also had this problem. I make tarts all the time and never have a problem getting them out of the metal molds. I ordered the palm wax. I made tarts and couldn't get any of them out of the molds without leaving a lot of residue. I also never have a problem getting them out of my electric tart burner. I put the top of the burner that holds the tart into the freezer for about 5 minutes and the whole thing pops out. Not so with the palm wax. There must have been a bad batch of wax. I have never used it before and have no plans to use it again because of this problem.

[Desertrose]

Being in Australia we probably have different sources for palm wax, but I've never ever NOT had palm wax slide out of a mixing bowl when set or slip out of a melt burner.

Sometimes when Richard leaves some container palm in one of the deep fryer pots the only way I know which wax it is is because his container wax sticks and my pillar/tart wax doesn't.

I've never heard before that it shouldn't slip free easily?

Tracy

[Stella1952]

There must have been a bad batch of wax. I have never used it before and have no plans to use it again because of this problem.

Unless you are using cases and can supply a batch number & supplier, alleging that the wax was a bad batch is unfounded and unfair to the manufacturers. It's not that it NEVER happens, but what happens after it leaves their hands is not being fully taken into account. Before blaming it on the manufacturer or palm wax in general, there's a LOT of road to cover! If you never used the stuff before, how in the world do you know how it is supposed to behave or whether YOU have done something wrong in your handling of the substance? To use it once, claim it was a bad batch and tar all palm wax with the same brush is simply irresponsible.

I ordered the palm wax.

What kind did you order & from whom? It makes a difference... It's far more likely when ordering small quantities that the sample bag was mixed up with a different formula, or that perhaps was mixed with the dregs from several bags... Speaking with a supplier about the problem is the first step in troubleshooting.

Molds have to be cleaned every now and then. New metal molds tend to stick as do ones that have been well-used. They should not be washed routinely with detergent or water. Heat them up & wipe them out thoroughly with paper towels. This serves to melt away any residual junk but leaves a thin coating that helps the mold release better. In cooking, we call this "seasoning a pan."

Whenever I use feather or starburst palm wax I always use 1 tablespoonful of palm stearic acid per pound to aid with release (more can be used - I use the minimum amount). Many suppliers offer the stearic acid right on the page with palm wax (CandleWic, for example). Others offer it with the other additives they carry.

Some suppliers list 5% FO load; others list 6%. Pay attention to this and don't add more than is recommended for your wax.

Most of the palm wax I have used looks like beads with some dusty stuff. I do not know whether the dusty stuff is just ground up beads or whether it is another substance added for release, crystal pattern, etc. If one is buying by the 5 or 10 lb. bag, the chances of having problems are greater because you do not know how the supplier has handled the wax after opening the case (or 60# bag). Like soy or any other kind of *natural* wax, the batches may differ slightly. Having said that, I have never used any palm wax that had THAT much difference from case to case. I HAVE experienced difficulties with small sample bags (10# & under), but that was with the patterning and not any problems with it contracting properly.

Tracy, I have had the same kind of experiences as you report. Sure wish I lived in your neck of the woods nearer Indonesia where so much palm wax is manufactured!!

[Debbie73]

Being in Australia we probably have different sources for palm wax, but I've never ever NOT had palm wax slide out of a mixing bowl when set or slip out of a melt burner.

Sometimes when Richard leaves some container palm in one of the deep fryer pots the only way I know which wax it is is because his container wax sticks and my pillar/tart wax doesn't.

I've never heard before that it shouldn't slip free easily?

Tracy

Tracy, I talked to Richard about this, because I knew that ya'll used the pillar palm wax and he essentially told me the same thing you just said, you've never had a problem with it sticking.

These are 55lb bags of wax that I was having problems with. The first 55lb was sticking (before that I was just ordering 10lb bags, with no sticking problems) Then I had to re-order another 55lb (feather palm) and this one is not sticking. I did have to wonder if there was some sort of problem.

Stella, I'm confused about your palm wax. Are you saying that your "pillar palm wax" is small beads with dusty stuff? My feather and starburst are both in very tiny bead form, they actually look identical, but they have no dust on them, very clean to work with. Now the glass glow, it's a whole different look. It is in flake form, but very dusty. When I pour it up to weigh, dust is flying everywhere, as is when I put it in the melter. I do get both of them from Candle Science. Also, do you think that adding stearic acid would help it not to stick in the tart warmer bowl? I know that was a wacky question, but since I was on a roll, I figured, what the heck!!

Deb

P>S>

Sorry for crawling out of my hole, I said I would shut up about this tart sticking problem!

[Stella1952]

Stella, I'm confused about your palm wax. Are you saying that your "pillar palm wax" is small beads with dusty stuff? My feather and starburst are both in very tiny bead form, they actually look identical, but they have no dust on them, very clean to work with.

Lemme go look so I don't lie to ya... Glass Glow (IGI R2322A) is tiny, tiny white flakes & very dusty - hate measuring that stuff!! Have to "lay" it in the Presto rather than pouring or a cloud forms... Yep - the other stuff from CandleWic is cream colored beads with a smaller amount of dusty stuff... could be from settling or it could be from some kind of powdered additive. I didn't dig out the feathering wax to compare - but if memory serves, it was identical in appearance to the starburst...

[mparadise]

I have been using palm wax in my electric melter here at the office for years and only had a handful of tarts not release once completely cooled, even when I use leftover container wax in it (poured the last 3/4 oz after my repours into a silicone muffin liner and use it for personal use only). Not sure why this is happening to yours but I would definitely try a batch with added steric the next time you get a problem bag to see if that helps. It will probably take care of it.

I suspect that batches vary slightly batch to batch as with everything. It may be as simple as when they filled that bag it may have gotten slightly less steric than a proir bag when it was poured from the master batch. Not necessarily a bad batch but just having a small enough difference that it caused that issue. I know Candle Science just rejected a recent shipment because it didn't pass their QC testing. They have been out of GG for almost 2 weeks waiting for a new batch/lot. If other distributors don't do this type of testing lot to lot they might not catch it if the wax isn't performing exactly as prior batches have. Like soy, subtle differences in the crop could affect the finished wax.

As far as getting the dusty GG wax into the melter, one trick I have found is to get a big dog food scoop in the pet dept at Target (plastic, $5ish) and scoop it in carefully/slowly rather than pouring it in. It cuts WAY down on the dust. It kinda stinks when I am filling my 75 lb melter with it and do it this way but the alternative is to end up breating it in and ending up covered in the dust when I hoist the bag up and pour it in. Either that or I make DH pour it and just stand back so I don't get covered. He still hasn't figured out that is why I get him to pour it for me. Evil I know, but it works and he feels like the big strong man hoisting it up on his shoulder to pour it in. I just have to be careful not to let him see me hoist it up myself when I am in a rush and don't have to scoop it in or it will be all over!

[Stella1952]

...getting the dusty GG wax into...my 75 lb melter

I work with concrete and portland cement is extremely fine and real bad for your lungs! When I put a bag into my mixer, I literally put the unopened bag in there and then cut it open and gently slide the wrapping out, leaving the powder in the mixer with very little dust produced. I do wear a mask whenever I handle dry cement products and probably should do so when handling dry wax... "Placing" powdered stuff rather than "pouring" itis the key to producing as little dust as possible! Edited November 30, 2009 by Stella1952

[Candybee]

I'm glad others mentioned the dusty GG. I use a large plastic cup to transfer from the bag to my meltor. No matter how careful I am the dust gets in my face. I try not to stick my face in it and breathe cause I don't know what kind of damage that wax dust can do to my lungs.

I think I'm gonna get a mask to wear so I don't breathe any in.

I've used C&S crystal pillar palm to make tarts and they slide ride out of my tart warmer and the metal molds. Once I tried it with GG and it also slid right out of both the mold and the tart warmer. I use electric tart warmers I buy from C&S. Maybe the type of tart warmer makes a difference too. But I suspect that the difference in batches could be the culprit. Some may have been made with less stearic so they may stick. I agree with adding the stearic to a 'sticking' batch and see if that doesn't help.

[Debbie73]

How much stearic acid should I add? Also, does it hurt to add it even if I am not having a sticking problem with the tarts? I thought I had some stearic acid, but I don't so will need to order. Do you know where is the best place to get some?

Thanks you guys! Ya'll are the greatest! :yay:

Deb

[Stella1952]

There's no harm in using it. Some folks say it enhances HT - I dunno, but it does help with release issues. I use 1 Tablespoonful per pound, although one can use more - up to 10% if memory serves me correctly. Any stearic will do, I think. I'm not sure that matters hugely - palm stearic has become pretty common and easy to find. Nearly all larger suppliers I have seen carry it, so just check for what is available from your favorite suppliers first. Good luck