"Clean Smoke"?

[joanncat18]

Top, read that article...i liked it...was easy to understand and straight forward.

Craftedinthewoods...

So why is soy a better alternative?

[Craftedinthewoods]

Top, read that article...i liked it...was easy to understand and straight forward.

Craftedinthewoods...

So why is soy a better alternative?

Ohhhh, It's my first day on these forums and I'm afraid I've put my foot in it!!! Please forgive me if I sounded like soy is better and that's that!

I should clarify - my own target market has developed from several friends of my mom's who are moving from burning parafin candles to soy. So when I began making candles that is where I started... because soy candles are hard to find in my area. I have never even made a parafin wax candle, but when I started with the soy, I sure fell in love with it!

Anyway, the following are what I share with interested customers (I am not a hard salesman - I first ask folks if they are familiar with soy wax and if they say no and want more I tell them...):

- I have read that since soy is a vegetable based wax, it won't have the toxins that are burned off when burning a petroleum based wax. (Is it fair to say it is a natural wax?)

- Soy is also made from a renewable resource (although I don't know how they make it so maybe the process of making soy wax is not too green... I don't know),

- Soy wax burns at a cooler tempurature than parafin so burns slower - lasting longer. I admit I haven't tested this myself as I do not make parafin and cannot judge if a purchased candle would be a good test comparison, but I have read this on several different web sites about wax & candles.

- Lastly, people love hearing that soy wax cleans up with hot soap & water. That simple thing has been something many people love to hear about soy wax.

That being said, I have found this thread very interesting and I will spend some time looking into the links others have posted.

I fully appreciate that everyone has their own needs as far as marketing & even hobbies go. I have nothing against those who use other waxes... Soy just seems to work for my purposes and needs.

[Stella1952]

The basic fact is simple: a candle is a candle and they're all the same. As for proof, the newest and best information is at http://igiwax.com/uploads/candlearti...c%20report.pdf

That was an interesting read; however, I am not sure the data shared warrant the opening paragraph:

"A new, internationally funded study on candle emissions has confirmed that

well-made candles of all major wax types exhibit the same clean burning behavior, and pose no discernible risks to human health or indoor air quality

."

I also noted that the article has no author nor source on it. I am assuming that it is a report that someone working for IGI wrote based on the test results from the 2007 Okometric Study...

There were several points that bothered me right off the bat about the setup of the test...

• only one sample of each of the five wax types was used - soy, paraffin, palm, beeswax, & stearin - plus some deliberately overwicked paraffin & soy candles for soot testing;

• three container candles of each wax type were burned at once;

• none contained any dye or fragrance (which makes a great deal of difference, since this is how most people burn candles)

• No pillar waxes were tested; no votive waxes were tested.

• The wicks were not necessarily identical types, although they made an effort to ensure that the consumption rates were similar.

• The air levels were calculated to the daily burning of one container candle for four hours in an unventilated room. It was emphacized that this assumed no air exchange in the room, but I also wondered about how many days were figured in that "daily" calculation (daily for a week, a month, a year?)

I am not at all sure that 4 hours per day (over ? time) of unscented uncolored candle burning equals "typical" candle burning behavior... :rolleyes2

While seemingly more unbiased than some studies & reports, I came away from this with the sense that the (WAX) companies & trade groups funding the study would like for ALL candle wax to appear to be equally innocuous because most of the manufacturers mentioned in the report sell more than one type of wax...

They discussed further research into certain areas of their findings, so it will be interesting to see how that goes... I'd also like to see other independent interests (ie. Consumer Reports, etc.) conduct similar studies to see if they can replicate the "clean-burning" results...

OK, me and my raised eyebrow are gonna ease on outta here... :tiptoe:

[joanncat18]

Well the fact that soy cleans up with soap and water is nice...i dont think you can really make the claim that it puts out less toxins...read the study that is linked by Top above. They showed that the toxins released by paraffin, soy, palm, etc were almost identical and well below the strictest indoor air quality guidelines they could find. The study was funded by several different organizations and does not seem biased. This was from 2007. As far as "natural"...i don't know about that. I read there is quite a "chemical" process to actually make wax from soy beans. That being said...everyone has their own preferance and opinions...we are all here to learn and grow...I have learned so much here.

Jamie

Ohhhh, It's my first day on these forums and I'm afraid I've put my foot in it!!! Please forgive me if I sounded like soy is better and that's that!

I should clarify - my own target market has developed from several friends of my mom's who are moving from burning parafin candles to soy. So when I began making candles that is where I started... because soy candles are hard to find in my area. I have never even made a parafin wax candle, but when I started with the soy, I sure fell in love with it!

Anyway, the following are what I share with interested customers (I am not a hard salesman - I first ask folks if they are familiar with soy wax and if they say no and want more I tell them...):

- I have read that since soy is a vegetable based wax, it won't have the toxins that are burned off when burning a petroleum based wax. (Is it fair to say it is a natural wax?)

- Soy is also made from a renewable resource (although I don't know how they make it so maybe the process of making soy wax is not too green... I don't know),

- Soy wax burns at a cooler tempurature than parafin so burns slower - lasting longer. I admit I haven't tested this myself as I do not make parafin and cannot judge if a purchased candle would be a good test comparison, but I have read this on several different web sites about wax & candles.

- Lastly, people love hearing that soy wax cleans up with hot soap & water. That simple thing has been something many people love to hear about soy wax.

That being said, I have found this thread very interesting and I will spend some time looking into the links others have posted.

I fully appreciate that everyone has their own needs as far as marketing & even hobbies go. I have nothing against those who use other waxes... Soy just seems to work for my purposes and needs.

[Stella1952]

Ohhhh, It's my first day on these forums and I'm afraid I've put my foot in it!!! Please forgive me if I sounded like soy is better and that's that!

Awww, you didn't know you were stepping into a minefield!! I make only veggie wax candles but I do hate "greenwashing" and hype. I especially do not like "studies" that support the interests & assertions of those funding the study... I also count the "sin of omission" as lying, too.

[Catlover]

Crafted....I feel your pain! Soy wax must be like the new kid in school who everybody thinks is fantastic, and the people who used to be fantastic think he's full of s**t....then everyone just settles down and coexists happily. Hopefully.

Thanks yet again, Stella.

[joanncat18]

Crafted....I feel your pain! Soy wax must be like the new kid in school who everybody thinks is fantastic, and the people who used to be fantastic think he's full of s**t....then everyone just settles down and coexists happily. Hopefully.

Thanks yet again, Stella.

Lol...grade school all over again?

Stella, some good points on the article. It's probably hard to find a similar study done by someone who has NO vested interest in selling wax. Any other studys out there anyone knows about? Or is this topic not been studied well?

[topofmurrayhill]

- I have read that since soy is a vegetable based wax, it won't have the toxins that are burned off when burning a petroleum based wax. (Is it fair to say it is a natural wax?)

- Soy is also made from a renewable resource (although I don't know how they make it so maybe the process of making soy wax is not too green... I don't know),

- Soy wax burns at a cooler tempurature than parafin so burns slower - lasting longer. I admit I haven't tested this myself as I do not make parafin and cannot judge if a purchased candle would be a good test comparison, but I have read this on several different web sites about wax & candles.

- Lastly, people love hearing that soy wax cleans up with hot soap & water. That simple thing has been something many people love to hear about soy wax.

Soy and paraffin produce comparable levels of soot and toxins (not much). Both are natural substances. A lot of petroleum products are required to produce soy wax and, while it does come from a renewable souce, that's irrelevant because sustainable candle manufacturing isn't a real issue. Finally, there is no difference in burn times.

Soy wax does clean up with soap and water. That's the only real benefit of soy wax versus paraffin and soy/paraffin blends.

[topofmurrayhill]

That was an interesting read; however...

Independent research would be nice, but this is by far the best we have and it's not bad. I don't particularly share your concerns about the methodology:

The candles were made with straight wax because they were testing waxes, not dyes and fragrances. There's already a study showing fragrance to be the biggest factor in candle emissions, so it would have completely overwhelmed the wax comparisons if they'd included it.

For the purpose of testing how emissions compare across different types of waxes, you only need to use one candle type. In any event, pillars aren't very popular and votives are container candles.

Wicking will always be the least rigorous part of tests like this, but there's no better approach than optimizing it the same way candlemakers do.

I'm not sure what air level calculation you would consider more reasonable than a 4 hour burning session in a tightly sealed 12 x 12 x 9 foot room. The results would have been well within any air quality standards even if they had calculated the results for an airtight closet.

[Circle]

Well the fact that soy cleans up with soap and water is nice...i dont think you can really make the claim that it puts out less toxins...read the study that is linked by Top above. They showed that the toxins released by paraffin, soy, palm, etc were almost identical and well below the strictest indoor air quality guidelines they could find. The study was funded by several different organizations and does not seem biased. This was from 2007. As far as "natural"...i don't know about that. I read there is quite a "chemical" process to actually make wax from soy beans. That being said...everyone has their own preferance and opinions...we are all here to learn and grow...I have learned so much here.

Jamie

Have you ever compared your roast lamb to the cleanup of a soy candle? It is certainely not water soluble because when the substances are cold the wax forms on top of the wax. I really cant understand why companies say that soy wax is water soluble when it clearly is NOT

[Stella1952]

I really cant understand why companies say that soy wax is water soluble when it clearly is NOT

You are correct about soy wax not being water soluble (says so right on the MSDS); however, when soap (actually, detergent) is added, it emulsifies the wax (oil). I think this is more of a "selling point" to those used to paraffin wax. :rolleyes2

[lsbennis]

I found this on a Miabella site awhile back...thought it was rather interesting ...

Our candles are not "soot-free" - they are "low-soot" or if you prefer, "90% soot-free". The wax we use is a proprietary blend of all-natural renewable materials, but not the fragrance oils. Since there is approximately 10% fragrance oil in our candles (which may produce a very small amount of soot), they cannot be classified as 100% soot-free - no candle can unless there is no fragrance oil in it (Unscented) or if it uses all-natural fragrance oils (which don't smell good).

...so are they really trying to tell us that their proprietary blend of soy wax is virtually soot free?...How do the get away with this crap! :rolleyes2

[autumndaze]

Wow. And all this time I thought I was making a "greener" candle by using a parasoy blend. When I first started, I made paraffin candles. They were great. Everyone loved them. After about a year and all the hype I decided to be in the "in" crowd and do soy. After several trial runs with straight soy (and failing miserably) I decided a parasoy blend may be the best I could do.

Just couldnt get that straight soy to throw a scent hot or cold no matter what wick I used....but thats water under the bridge.

If I had known then what Im reading today I probably would never have even bothered trying to work with soy. I know the cost of my wax has dramatically increased. And I dont even think my customers care whats in them as long as they put out a good smell from start to finish. So maybe its time for me to switch back...Trouble is, that was so long ago I dont remember where I used to get my paraffin wax from. lol

But since Im rambling I should proabably get to the point. I just want to say thanks for all the info here. Its been a real eye opener for me.

[joanncat18]

Autumn,

I know...I am glad I don't feel the need to be in the "in" crowd. Soy just seems like it is more trouble to work with than it's worth...to me anyways. Not all scents work, color doesn't seem to go over well all the time...the cauliflower ugly tops it gets...just my opinion. I think whatever wax you use, you just have to know how to defend it and market it to people...they all have their own benefits and drawbacks.

[Circle]

if course...

Like big candle companies saying that soy wax is water soluble????