So Disappointed...

[jen08]

Hello! I got some oils from Candle Coccoon that are super strong (only supposed to use .5-.6 oz per pound). I did the normal routine, heat the 444 to 185, add FO (a tiny bit more than the recommended amount), stirred for 2 minutes, let cool to 100 (the only way I can get smooth tops with this wax), stirred again and poured. The cold throw was awesome! I poured a tiny bit of the wax (only about 1/8 inch) in a Dixie cup so that I could test the throw in a warmer later. I let the candle cure for 6 days before I lit it and the hot throw was nonexistant! The strange thing is that I burned the Dixie cup wax in the warmer, not even 24 hours later and it filled the entire house with fragrance...so much so that I was kind of scared to light the candle six days later! Since I got insane hot throw from the warmer and not anything from the actual candle, would it mean that the problem is in the wicking? I am using the 8 oz Madison with a 3 in diameter, CD 14, which may end up being too big (1st burn, already 1/4 deep and almost FMP after 3 hours). I also have ECOs and cotton wicks in the drawer. I'm thinking about trying the ECOs...does anyone think the wick change would make a difference in the throw, or see anything else I may be doing that would affect it? Oh ya...This is the second awesome oil I have tried from this company that has had the same results. First one was strawberry rhubarb and this one is Sultry Angel. Thanks so much for any ideas!

[*Dee*]

i use cd 10 and 12, in my 8 oz jj's with 415.. could be your wick is too big.. when i melt mine i usually only melt to 170 then add my scent and cool till slushy then pour. hopefully someone will help more that uses 444.. also could it just be your nose ?? sometimes it takes someone else to tell me they can smell a candle when i cant.

[jen08]

Thanks...I'll try both! Would that affect the throw?

[*Dee*]

a too big of wick will burn the scent out.. also even if they recomend .5-.6 / oz i would still try it with the standard 1 oz/p..

my votives are doing that now cuz the wick is way too big, i can barely smell anything at all.. and i know the scent is good @ 1 oz pp in my containers.

[jen08]

Sorry, we must have been typing at the same time! Now I read the rest of your reply. I wish it was my nose...but no else that has visited has been able to smell it either...

[*Dee*]

i would try adding the scent at 1 oz pp before u do anything else. tarts will burn different because the flame isnt touching the wax. i dont think a cd 14 would be hot enough to burn the scent out. my jars are like 2.75 inches and most take a cd 12.. yours is 3 inches and cd 14 is the next step up.. so try 1 oz pp only heat the wax to 170-175 add scent pour at 100 or even a tad lower.. then go from there with wicks IF you need to...

[LynnS]

I agree with the 1 ounce per pound. So far all my candles are strong with that amount.If I have to go more than that I don't use that scent. Only had a few like that.Popcorn was one.

I have made candles with the 444 and they smell great with 1 ounce. I used 402 for years and went back to it though. Liked the 444 but the 402 the scent was just as strong.

The tops were smoother with the 444 after pouring. Really I could use either wax and it would not make a difference.IMO they were very close.

Let us know how it goes.

LynnS

[jen08]

Thanks! I will try 1 oz and see if it's any better...and only heat to 170-175. Thanks for the help...I will report back!

[CandleMama6]

What is the difference between the 444 and the 415?

[*Dee*]

I *Think* the 444 has additives in the wax making it be able to be poured at a hotter temp.. i think i read 135 for pouring??

[jen08]

The 444 is the 415 with 2% Universal Soy Additive added to it.

[lrbd]

I agree with the 1 ounce per pound. So far all my candles are strong with that amount.If I have to go more than that I don't use that scent.

LynnS

May I ask a question. For years I have been using mostly 1.50 oz of FO per pound. Were you able to get a strong HT with GB415 with only 1 oz per pound?

After reading on this forum so many people use 1 oz per pound I gave it a try and it wasn't so great. I by everything from MC and have always liked them . I am wondering if it is the 415 or the FO. Any thoughts. Thanks so much

Edited August 17, 2009 by lrbd

[*Dee*]

i use 415 and have always used 1 oz pp. sometimes 1.25 oz pp. i heat to 170-175 add scent and pour at slushy stage. i always have good ht.. if i dont at the f/o % i used then its not a good oil for me. alot of times more f/o than that and it is a waste imho. i have a few of mc's oils as well.

[Abbiepql]

Must be the wax cuz Sultry Angel is a very strong thrower in 415 with only .75 oz - I would never use 1 oz of this FO, it would be a waste. I could go down to half an ounce and it would be a great thrower. I have made candles with 415 for many years and if a FO is not a good thrower for me in an ounce or under I won't use it. There are simply too many FO out there that work awesome at 1 oz. Additionally, it's been my experience the more FO you add to the mix the more the burning performance suffers.

[lrbd]

i use 415 and have always used 1 oz pp. sometimes 1.25 oz pp. i heat to 170-175 add scent and pour at slushy stage. i always have good ht.. if i dont at the f/o % i used then its not a good oil for me. alot of times more f/o than that and it is a waste imho. i have a few of mc's oils as well.

My heavier scents like Baked breads , grandma's kitchen mulled cider yes, they seem fine at 1.0 oz per pound. My year round scents amber romance , angle wings baby powder and many more not strong enough for me unless Iuse 1.25 or 1.50.

I heat my wax to 185 - 200 add color wait until it is at 175 add FO and pour at 95 to 100 slushy stage.

I get my 415 and all my oils from MC. So not sure what's up .

I never had a problem burning them either. Well not until now ...I am using new jars and I can't for the life of me find the right wick . Thats a thread all on it's own.

My flower pots, mason and jelly jars do fine. I would love to save the money and use less FO. I tried it a week ago and I am not happy with the amount of HT.

I am testing in 8 oz jelly jars so mabe i am expecting more of a throw from the small jar than I should be.

Mc is all I know for years. so as far as not using the FO anymore I wouldn't know where to begin. They are so nice over there too.

Love talking to you guys. I just found this site a week or so ago and it is so nice to chat with people about this stuff. Thanks

[*Dee*]

i heat my 415 to 170-175 add color/scent then pour @ slushy.. maybe try only heating the wax to 175. what size jars and wicks do you use ? i would not be able to have only one f/o supplier.. i use mc, ky, ng, berts and i know a few more. i honestly dont think 415 should be heated that high.

[lrbd]

Love you advice and opinion I really do... ( I am really loving this) my new obsession just wondering though how do you heat to 170 - 175 get it into a pour pot add color without it dropping to much lower?

If I do that it drops too much and I am pretty sure you shouldn't add you FO below the 175. I think mc advises to heat to 185 and add at 175. but when I do that like I said it drops too quickly.

I really need to start shopping around for other oils I agree with that for sure.

[*Dee*]

when i first started with 415 a few years ago they recomended adding f/o at 120 i believe but it wasent high enough to incorporate the f/o to the wax.. i have my f/o measured and ready to pour into the pour pot as well as my color.. it doesnt get much cooler as long as everything is ready to go in.. always add your f/o first to make sure it blended good, always stir for 2-3 minutes to incorporate it.. stir a few times as it is cooling and again right before you pour.

[lrbd]

when i first started with 415 a few years ago they recomended adding f/o at 120 .

WOW must be before my time.... this is my 4th year

I add the color first based on what MC recommends . I guess it is what ever works. They also recommend the 1.50 oz of FO. But I am seeing I can use less on some. Not 1oz though I wish I could .

This is a busy season and I am having much trouble wicking my new jars. Once that settles I will get on new scents from other places and keep trying to decrease my FO. anyways this is from MC

Using the double-boiler method or a Presto Kitchen Kettle with a thermostat, heat wax to 185°. Never leave heating wax unattended.

Pour heated wax into a separate container. (example: empty coffee can)

If using colorant, add desired color. Stir until completely dissolved. If using color flakes you may add a small amount to wax and heat separately to ensure color is fully dissolved and then add to larger quantity of melted wax.

Add your choice of weighed fragrance oil to the melted soy wax at 175°. Stir well. This part is a must and not to be skipped. You MUST WEIGH your fragrance oil and soy wax and add to the melted wax at 175°. The soy can be weighed before or after melted, it will weigh the same.

For the 100% soy wax, tet wax cool to a temperature of around 100°-110°.

[jen08]

If an FO works well in 415, shouldn't it work well in 444, since it is 415 with a little bit of USA? I am genuinely puzzled. For everyone that uses 415, which wicks are you using?

I know it it really too early to tell for sure because I have only completed 3 test burns with Sultry Angel, but I haven't reached a FMP yet, and no mushrooming yet. I still have at least 1/8- 1/4 hang up on one side, and thin hang up the rest of the way around. I have completed 9 burn tests with the strawberry rhubarb and got a FMP at the 8th test. After the 9th, got thin hang up all around. These results are following my previous test with a different scent, only difference is that that had HT, and all caught up and melted down fine by the end. I was really hoping I could get these scents to work. Maybe I will only heat the next testers to 175. The confusing part is that they have VERY strong cold throw....like I said, I was scared to light it...then...nothing.

[*Dee*]

i use cd wicks with mine and have used htp before with good results. the one important thing with soy is alot of times you dont achieve a fmp in the first burn.. soy burns down then out so it could take a few burns to even itself out. what diameter is your jar and what size wicks ? there have been a couple f/o's i just couldnt get a good ht from and stopped trying.

[lrbd]

Jen08, I have never used anything other than 415 but when I search this site I have read some thing about it that scare me. Not sure if this will help but go to this link http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48833&highlight=gb+444

[JacquiO]

Have you considered adding coconut oil to your GB 444? I haven't used the 444 but I've added CO (76 degree LouAnn Brand) to the 415 with good results.

Coconut oil is my cure all with soy wax frustration. It cures the cauliflower tops, color frosting and improves throw. I use about 1 tbsp per pound of soy.

HTH,

Jacqui

[Stella1952]

If an FO works well in 415, shouldn't it work well in 444, since it is 415 with a little bit of USA?

For info on the difference between waxes, I find it very helpful to go to the manufacturer's website...

http://www.gfgb.com/candles/candle_products.htm

According to them, 444 is a blend of TWO veggie waxes (soy and???) plus an additive (USA perhaps?). 415 is one of their two all-soy waxes.

Just because a FO works in one application does not mean that it will work in a different wax, although I'd take that as pretty strong evidence that it should. Additives and other blends change the properties of a wax. Not only will some FOs not work well from one soy-based wax to another, but the wicking is often very different as well.

CO is a great suggestion as it does help with some of the same issues as USA. Since 464 is a blend and already has an additive, CO might be the ticket, if changing the wicking does not help.

[jen08]

Jen08, I have never used anything other than 415 but when I search this site I have read some thing about it that scare me. Not sure if this will help but go to this link http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48833&highlight=gb+444

Ya, I've read that thread a few times...I don't know what compelled me to still try it...I think now, though I may be reconsidering trying the 415. I think the reason I tried the 444 was because you were supposed to be able to pour it warmer, but after trying to pour at 150, 140, 130, 120, 110, finally got smooth tops at 100. So, I guess it kind of defeated the purpose of buying a wax that was supposed to be poured a little warmer.:rolleyes2 I think I will be ordering 415 very soon. I know I shouldn't let a couple little scents scare me away so easily, but luckly I haven't found "my wax" yet and am still in the test-all stage.