CT and HT problems with soy, palm, beeswax

[kancan]

I have been trying to make medium strong, not even very strong scented vegetable blend candles. Have tried every formula/method under the sun and still have not come up with a perfect blend to create a nicely scented candle. Help!

1. My first try was with Cargill Nature wax 3-c. I initially used all 100% essential oils with this. Mixed in ess. oils at 125 degrees. Resulted in excellent cold throw and non-existent hot throw.

Because I read that essential oils have bad hot throw, I made the scents with 50% fragrance oils and 50% ess oils. For everything I mixed 1 oz fo/eo per lb.

2. Second try was palm wax and Goldenbrands 464 Soy, , and only 10% beeswax. Mixed in the 50/50 EO & FO at 175 degrees. Barely any cold throw and nonexistent hot throw.

3. All goldenbrands 464 soy. Mixed 50/50 essential oils/fragrance oils at 175 degrees. Ok cold throw, but not anywhere as good as the Cargill c-3 cold throw, and still... nonexistent hot throw.

4. Goldenbrands 464 soy and 10% beeswax. Great texture. Mixed 50/50 essential oils/fragrance oils at 175 degrees. And guess what? Barely any cold throw and nonexistent hot throw.

Can anybody explain why I can never get both a good cold throw AND hot throw for any of these combinations? The only thing that was worked with cold throw was mixing at a lower temp. But I have read that in order to "bind" the fragrance to the wax, I should mix at a higher temp so that is why I started to mix at 175 degrees and above. Unfortunately that has resulted in less cold throw!!

And on top of it all I have read in numerous places that palm wax helps give the candle a strong hot throw -- but my results show that palm in my blends nearly eliminates the cold throw and does not help hot throw at all.

Is it because I am using 50/50 eo and fo? Should I use all or mostly fo instead? Reason why is I really like the complexity of eo but there's no point if I will never smell it in burning candle!

Would appreciate some guidance... my scented candles have no scent!

[tootie04]

It is not recommended....by Jason at GB to use beeswax in the 464...dont ask me why but when we first tested this wax that came up and it was pretty much agreed that beeswax dont work.

cant comment on C-3 but Stella seems to do just fine with the stuff.

I dont think ess oils work that great in candles anyway....IMO.

One other thing....how long are you curing the candles before burning them for HT??

[rustic]

I don't use 464 wax so I can't help you with that but for candle making I stick with the fragrance oils, I think essentials oils are more for bath and body products. If you use only the fragrance oils and still aren't getting good cold and hot throws maybe try using a different wax, I use Soy125 from KY and I add oil at around 150 (1 ounce per lb) and stir real good, then just before I pour at around 100 degrees I stir really good again. Cure time for me is at least 1 week or longer. I get a good hot and cold throw. Haven't tried Palm wax yet so can't help you on that either.

[Stella1952]

#1 - My first question is about wicking. Wick choice can have a lot to do with a candle's HT. Have you tried putting some wax from one of your unsatisfactory candles in a tart warmer to see if you get a better hot throw there? If a warmer makes the wax throw better, your wicking may be at fault.

NatureWax C3 has been a very consistent product for us. We use USA & UV as additives. We temper the wax, add the wax to the FO (1 oz/pp) at 180°-185°F, and stir down to the pouring temp of 165°F. I've experimented a little with EOs (1 oz/pp) and been pleased with the result, although the EOs are generally not as strong as the FOs are. I can't remember if I ever mixed FOs with EOs, but I don't think so... Why not try a few FOs to find ones that do well for you, then add EOs to a known good thrower to see how it comes out? I have found that quality of EOs varies quite a bit from supplier to supplier, so you may need to sample some others for comparison.

All FOs are not created equal. I have had good success with ones I have purchased from JBN, Peaks, CandleScience, CandleWic, Cajun Candles, Lonestar, Save On Scents & Wellington. These are by no means the only good FO suppliers - they are simply ones I have found to be consistently good with the waxes I use. There are lots of suppliers I have not sampled. Each, of course, has it's "duds," but nearly all I've purchased from those suppliers have performed satisfactorily or better. Each one has one or more of our favorite FOs.

I can't speak much to mixing palm wax with C3 for a container blend, although I have done so in the past for pillars which had a pleasing throw. I was unaware that palm wax is reported to heighten throw in C3... I was not happy with mixing beeswax with C3, but I was looking more for an additive that would help reduce frosting issues and enhance scent throw and smooth the consistancy & tops. For us, beeswax or coconut oil (or both) didn't work as well as adding USA for the above issues. HTH

[chuck_35550]

I know some people are adding palm wax but I have tried palm oil. Palm oil really helps in small doses and does not cause sooting. Using a blend of 6006, 464 and a teaspoon of palm oil per pound has given me good results with adhesion and both ct and ht. I just have to be honest and say that nothing competes with my old 70/30 veggie wax from Clarus, that you can pour and sell the next day. Easy to wick but really expensive.

[topofmurrayhill]

I think the first thing you should do is try some testers with only fragrance oil, between 1 oz and 1 1/2 oz per pound of wax.

By the way, I have serious doubts that there's any such thing as "binding" of fragrance to the wax. What is binding anyway? It's not a term for anything technical. It's just a made-up concept as far as I know.

You add fragrance and it mixes in -- that's that. Works at any temperature. Maybe at a lower temperature you don't end up breathing as much fragrance while making the candle, so your nose doesn't get so used to it and the cold throw seems better.

[Circle]

We have great results with EO and don't find them weaker than FO by any means. C3 is a great wax with excellent CT and Ht so cant see what the problem is here. With the other mixtures, maybe you are using too much beeswax. Maybe leave them to cure for a longer time

[chuck_35550]

I think Stella may be on the right track concerning wicking. Have you tried cdn wicks? I use cdns in a blend of 464 and 6006 and get the best result for ht. The fos are a real hit and miss for me. I tested wildberry mousse and it blew the doors off but another fo from the same company was really weak and disappointing. There is a lot of information on the board about which fos work in particular waxes. HTH. Try different formulations other than 50/50 too.

Steve

Edited August 20, 2009 by chuck_35550

[Stella1952]

By the way, I have serious doubts that there's any such thing as "binding" of fragrance to the wax. What is binding anyway?

Top, the only way this makes sense to me is via cooking. Oils mix together best at certain temps, so perhaps that is what folks mean when they refer to "binding." Or maybe they are referring to some molecular term which is above my pay grade.

Curing is a similar term - some folks think it's bogus, but spaghetti sauce, chili and beef stew always taste better after a couple of days of "curing" in the fridge, so it makes sense to me that fragrance in veggie waxes will develop more if allowed to cure for a few days before burning...

[Sharon in KY]

spaghetti sauce, chili and beef stew always taste better after a couple of days of "curing"

Not true with cookies or fudge or guacamole dip.

Stella, what USA do you use, cause apparently they are not all created equal. Same with UV additive.