mixing 464/palm wax....

[tootie04]

I didnt want to hijack Richards thread so I'll ask here....anyone mixing palm with the 464??

If so what improvments to the 464 are you seeing by doing this??

I have some palm to play with and some 464 on the way...may have to test the mix....:smiley2:

[TheWickedWick]

I've always wanted to do that too. Let us know how it turns out. Never was happy with 464 on its own.

[tootie04]

I think I'll start with a 20% palm and see how it goes...should be interesting. :smiley2:

[TheWickedWick]

tootie...are you using Glass Glow? What wicks will you be trying? CD's or CDN's?

[RichardLOZ]

Tootie

I started with 100% 464, then went to 100% 415, however went back to 464 due to my impatience having to wait for the 415 to turn slushy.

Went back to 464 however started to blend the non crystalizing container palm with it. We get the palm in a box rather than a bag. Its 20kg (about 40 lbs I guess) and is a solid block, so very different to the normal palm wax. If I recall I started at 20% palm and am now doing a 50 / 50 blend.

It has helped so much with our candles. We get little to no wet spots after pouring, however some do develop later on due to the temperature variation in our house. As we pour in the garage, we can get 15 - 20 degree celcius (60+ fegree farenheight) variations in temperature from day to night which has been a challenge.

The tops come out beautifully smooth, however some have a tendancy to capture air bubbles, so that is something you need to look out for.

Both HT and CT are awesome. One of the shops we are supplying has been super critical comparing our product against Woodwick, Bridgewater, Keepers of the Light etc and he reckons that ours are better.

The burn is great also. Unlike straight soy which can tenf to leave a little residue on the sides of the container, the blend burns clean right the way down the jar, with no residue left at all.

We have been totally happy with the result as have our customers. Yet to see how that blend goes in an Australian summer so that should be rather interesting

HTH

Richard

[tootie04]

Thank you Richard...I am going to use the Glass Glow and do a small amount at first...just to see what it does.

I like the 464 with a little paraffin mixed in...so if I can get that great HT and CT with the Palm that would be nice....

I have CD wicks I am gonna try. I also have some CSN wicks from CS cause I was gonna try pouring a few just GG and see how they turn out....wrecking the tops sounds like such FUN!!:smiley2:

[Sharon in KY]

Apparently the "non crystallizing container palm" wax has not made it to the US. I bet it is a pain breaking it up...

[RichardLOZ]

Sharon

LOL, yes it isnt the easiest especially in the cold weather. In the heat its fine as you can dig it out with a spoon, but in the cold you have cut it

Richard

[chuck_35550]

Try a teaspoon of palm oil per pound. Palm oil looks like coconut oil and is used for soap making. I love the results.

[Sharon in KY]

Try a teaspoon of palm oil per pound. Palm oil looks like coconut oil and is used for soap making. I love the results.

I have a lot of soap oils but not Palm. You think it works better than coconut? And can you buy the palm oil in your local store like coconut oil? Need to order from NG and KY but pretty sure neither one has much soap making stuff.

[chuck_35550]

Yes the palm worked better. The candle formulas I tested contained 464, j-223,2730 and 6006. The only formula that it did not help contained 413 soy. You can not buy palm in most stores (the new Crisco does contain palm but I don't know how much) and have to order it from a soap supplier. It looks just like coconut oil in its solid form.

[chuck_35550]

Oh and Tootie, I used 1/2 tsp in the 75/25 4630/464 and got a great candle that was really easy to wick.

[tootie04]

Thanks for the suggestions.....may have to try that. I have palm wax here though and would have to order palm oil...so I am gonna try the wax first.

[chuck_35550]

It's worth a shot. All of the candles have maintained adhesion with the exception of one formula, which has a small amount of loss in the bottom. The only question at this point would be how much would be too much and maybe lock the scent into the wax. Then you get that great ct but no ht stuff.

Good luck,

Steve

[Sharon in KY]

So do you still pour at the same temp. cooler or can you pour hot with the palm. Still haven't ordered any, not sure who to order from. Have some (2) palm kernel I have had for years and notice one is much harder than the other. So wondering if it's the same with reg. palm oil/wax., do companies sell different types. Palm and palm kernel are they the same

[chuck_35550]

I poured a 85/15 formula of 6006/464 with 1/2 tsp of palm kernel oil (very hard to break up) and poured at 175 degrees into a room temp 12 oz salsa jar. The candle is very white and seems to soot more than with any other additive. I have a cd 14 in it right now and the flame is perfect. I think this will need to sit for a couple of days before testing. The ct and ht improves dramatically with a couple days of curing. My old wax was good to go from the moment I poured it.

[jessi]

I have a lot of soap oils but not Palm. You think it works better than coconut? And can you buy the palm oil in your local store like coconut oil? Need to order from NG and KY but pretty sure neither one has much soap making stuff.

Hi Sharon--

Spectrum (brand) makes a Trans-fat free shortening that is 100% palm oil. A lot of soapers use this. It's rather spendy for soaping, but the price isn't bad if you're just adding 1 tbsp ppw for candles. You can find it at natural food stores, or in the natural foods section of your grocery store. It comes in a blue and white tub.

I'm really curious about this, as I've been mixing palm and soy for quite a while - but mostly a small amount of soy in palm. I have some 464 coming today, to replace my CBAdvanced that I didn't like. And a whole lot of Palm Feather Wax. I get a MUCH better scent throw out of palm, but I like the looks of soy in jars better (and many people just want soy).

I think I'm going to try some testers at 10% and 20% palm. Since it's a pillar wax, I don't want to go too high. May try the palm oil too, thank you for the suggestion.

[Sharon in KY]

Yes the palm worked better. The candle formulas I tested contained 464, j-223,2730 and 6006. The only formula that it did not help contained 413 soy. You can not buy palm in most stores (the new Crisco does contain palm but I don't know how much) and have to order it from a soap supplier. It looks just like coconut oil in its solid form.

I haven't heard of 413 wax, I use 435 so hope it works for it. Are all Palm oil 's about the same?

[chuck_35550]

Sorry, that should have been GW415 soy. I just bought a gallon from wholesale supplies plus (about 8 pounds) but I soap as well as make candles. Palm will separate and should be stirred to make sure you have no separation. The palm kernel really soots up a storm but boy does it make a ultra white candle. HTH

[tootie04]

I poured 2 testers yesterday of soy/palm 85/15. I lit the one up this morning cause I know the scent rocks in the 464 anyway so I am just testing wick/jar combo.

The other one is the Elf Sweat from NG...that one I will light up next week sometime.

I also poured a 100% Palm....so pretty....and I will wait till next friday to light that one....based on Stella's advise.

The two soy/palm ones were rough looking...maybe I poured too hot or not hot enough...but the heat gun smoothed everything out so it was good.

I colored both the soy/palm candles and have good adhesion and no frosting...both of which I dont care about anyway. All my customers want is a ROCKEN candle. One lady told me it could look like something the cat puked up and she would not care as long as it smelled good!!

[jessi]

I tried adding palm to my 464 last night. It's feather palm, a pillar wax, so maybe the glassglow would perform better.

I did two candles, with palm at 10% and 20%. I just poured the same FO in 100% 464, so next week I'll test each one in different areas of the house, and if I remember report back on performance.

Not happy with the looks of the candles. It cooled ... grainy. There's some frosting on both w/palm, and no frosting (yet, anyway) on the 100% soy.

The candle with 20% palm sunk in terribly when cooling - and dried all grainy/funny looking. I did take a picture. It took three different blasts with the heat gun to get a nice top (just kept sinking back down - big air hole around the wick). And, so, now there's a visible layer on the top where I used the heat gun.

I poured at about 150º for all candles. Added FO (CS Caramelized Pralines) at 1 oz ppw at 175º for all three. After capping the two with palm wax overnight, there isn't a noticeable difference with CT between the 10% and 20% palm.

[Sharon in KY]

I tried adding palm to my 464 last night. It's feather palm, a pillar wax, so maybe the glassglow would perform better.

I did two candles, with palm at 10% and 20%. I just poured the same FO in 100% 464, so next week I'll test each one in different areas of the house, and if I remember report back on performance.

Not happy with the looks of the candles. It cooled ... grainy. There's some frosting on both w/palm, and no frosting (yet, anyway) on the 100% soy.

The candle with 20% palm sunk in terribly when cooling - and dried all grainy/funny looking. I did take a picture. It took three different blasts with the heat gun to get a nice top (just kept sinking back down - big air hole around the wick). And, so, now there's a visible layer on the top where I used the heat gun.

I poured at about 150º for all candles. Added FO (CS Caramelized Pralines) at 1 oz ppw at 175º for all three. After capping the two with palm wax overnight, there isn't a noticeable difference with CT between the 10% and 20% palm.

Don't think you would get the same results with Pillar Palm as opposed to Palm oil. All the Palm waxes I have looked for in the USA are crystallizing. I think you have to use the non crystallizing or the oil to get the good results.

[jessi]

Yes, I think you're right. I haven't seen non-crystalizing palm anywhere either. You wouldn't want to add palm OIL at 10% -- I can't imagine that would burn well at all.

[chuck_35550]

No it wouldn't. I have added 1 tsp pp of wax and find that to be sufficient. Crisco now uses palm in their formulation and you could try a tsp of Crisco to see how that works. HTH.

Steve