Who put the soap in the C3?

[I love candles]

I left them a message about my boxes to see how to proceed or if they want me to send a sample in as well. If they don't do anything, I will definitely try heat gunning the wax - thanks for the tip!

[bsalmon26]

It does help with the bubbles. I've never had to use a heat gun on my candles - kind of funny I use my heat gun on melted wax! Just don't like heat guns.

[blt212]

Thanks for the heat gun tip....just tried it and it worked great. Now if I could just find the Jack Frost sample I put "somewhere", been looking for an hour. Guess it's time to order from CS again!

[I love candles]

I have been corresponding with Michelle and hopefully there will be a resolution soon!

[SharonA]

This post just settled my decision on whether to use C-3 or golden 464.

The winner is......464

[Stella1952]

How's this issue comin' along, y'all?

[blt212]

Elevance was very professional and courteous to work with....they've replaced my bad 50# boxes of C3 and have indicated that they have resolved the problem so we shouldn't see it again in future lots. While it did take awhile to come to

a conclusion I have to say I was kept in the loop during the entire process. As far as any updates on using C3...I was sent some info on max FO load without additives which was 6%, heat to approx 185...pour temp was a wide range which I think we'll all agree is what we've experienced....

[islandgirl]

Glad to hear they stepped up and admitted their was an issue and replaced your wax.

(Unlike one supplier I have dealt with (No names mentioned ) saying - I see no problem on my end, it must be something your doing wrong.):tiptoe:

It is great they were made aware of the problems and resolved the issues.

This shows great customer service and dedication in creating a great wax. I love using C-3 in my blend..

Thanks blt212..

[I love candles]

Ditto what blt212 said - I also had a great interaction with Elevance (Michelle was wonderful) and they replaced my boxes. I am excited to start making some more candles!

[Stella1952]

Just wanted to bump up this thread for others who are having problems with the Elevance C3...

[Sabrina]

I just started a new thread on this because some how I missed this one. My problem is I don't have a lot number of any sort. The last case I ordered came from Candle Wic and this was the one and only case I've ever ordered from them. I thought it was weird when I got it last month I think it was because I'm used to the Nature Wax Cargill C-3 sticker being on the side of the case (no matter where I've gotten it from) and Candle Wic's had nothing. Just a plain brown box really.

I'm at a loss. I'm having way more air bubbles however my big thing is for some reason the wicks I've used for probably the last 5 years are suddenly burning VERY hot in the wax. I'm getting like 2-3 in flames within a half hour of lighting an 8 oz jj and loads of soot. I used to be able to power burn these for like 14 hours and not have a lick of soot and now I'm getting tons of dark black soot.

Any one else having this issue? I agree with whoever suggested lot numbers on the candles, I think this will be a top priority for me to do! I'm frustrated because as much of a beast as C-3 has been in the past, of all the soy's on the market I've tried this one has been tried and true killer throw both hot and cold for me. I just ordered a case of 464 because I don't know what else to do. I'm too scared to order any more C-3... ugh! And to think I have a fundraiser for 200 kids coming up! Ugh!

[blt212]

Sorry to hear you got the dreaded soapy C3....I started this thread awhile ago because of these issues. There should be a stamped lot number on the box...mine wasn't on the label but on the box itself. You might want to contact Elevance for a replacement. Before I did that, I had used quite a bit of it before I got frustrated enough to call. A couple of things that helped was to pour a bit hotter, pour really slow so you don't stir up more bubbles. But it will happen so I would hit the bubbles with the heat gun in the Melting Pot, Pouring Pot and on the top of the candles after pouring...someone else mentioned that on this thread and it helped alot. As for problems with wicking, I really didn't notice bigger flames or differences in throw. It was more the air bubbles creating deeper air pockets and craters. I found if you cool slowly and poke lots of relief holes, this will also help. Once setup you'll have to heat the tops with the heatgun or repour to fill in... The replacement boxes that Elevance sent did not have the same problem so I'm not planning on switching...too much time and money invested in C3 and testing.

Good Luck

Brenda

[Sabrina]

Thanks Brenda, that's very reassuring to hear that your new box is fine! Ugh, it just kills me when something like this happens. We work so hard to perfect something and to put out a great candle and then *poof*! Everything feels like you're starting from scratch.

Well I ordered the 464 today already so at least if anything I will have that for dipping bears and tp! LOL I wish Candle Science would have called me back on it. The box I got from Candle Wic doesn't have any label on it at all. That's why I was so thrown back. Unless I'm missing it somewhere. This would be the first case I had gotten from Elevance (if it is) so I don't know how they're packaging it now. I also had never ordered this from Candle Wic before either so I didn't know if they repackaged it some how or what. I know this, I'll stick with where I've always gotten it before, even if it is on sale somewhere else!

And I agree, too much time and money already put into this wax. The thought of starting completely over for over 50 fragrances scares the patootie outta me!

[deb426]

I use C3 and the labels on my boxes are identical except the ones of Elevance say Elevance where it used to say Cargill on the label. I have some old empty boxes from the Cargill days.

Deb

[Sabrina]

I'm starting to wonder if what I got from Candle Wic is even C-3? It throws the same, just horridly hight flames. The two candles I've been powerburning today that I made up 2 days ago are preforming just fine as far as soot, but the flame is still rather high. About 1- 1 1/2 in. within 5 minutes of lighting. I mean the ECO's are known to dance wild every now and again, but nothing like this.

I'm just going to place a new order tomorrow with Candle Science and will have to email my customers waiting on orders and tell them I won't be able to ship until next week, Darn!

I'm glad I read this though, thank you!

[I love candles]

I also never had a difference in flame size when I had the bad C-3 boxes. I am with Brenda - the new stuff has been fine and I have no intention on switching. I also had the actual lot stamped on the box and the label was the same except for saying Elevance.

Good luck!

[Sabrina]

Ok I hate to bump up an old thread again but I'm still having problems only the air bubbles have gotten way worse! I forgot about the heat gun in the pour pot idea so I will try that before totally exausting all efforts but I ordered 14 cases from CS and I have 3 cases left and I've been dealing with this from all cases used so far. I did contact Elevance and am waiting to hear back from them.

Just wondering if anyone is still having an issue? The lot number on the 3 cases I have left are LB05. I'm getting just as someone else described about the foam hardening just like normal wax. I can heat the sides of the jars and watch the air bubbles shoot up to the top. If it's not too bad I can save the candle but the ones that are really bad the more I heat it, the more air bubbles that show up (seems like there's more trapped in the middle than on the sides).

I pretty much told them that if this issue isn't going to be fixed I'm going to be forced to switch to something else eventually. I can get by with normal frosting but this is much worse than typical frosting issues.

[JacquiO]

Yeah when I was testing soy waxes I like the Ecosoya Advanced the best of all. The C-3 had a better scent throw but the bubbles and air pockets were annoying to say the least. I improved the adv's throw by adding coconut oil and have pretty much stuck with it. Although I have used GB for my massage candles because it cost less.

[Stella1952]

I did not have any problems with Cargill manufactured NatureWax C3 and I am not having any problems with the stuff Elevance is manufacturing. I think this is an issue of how the wax is being handled more than any change in formula. Have noted NO changes in flame height using the same CDN wicks as I always have.

I HAVE experienced the problem you are describing but the solution was for me to change my pouring procedures.

ANY changes in humidity, room temperature, length of cooling time, height of cover, etc. WILL produce changes with the appearance of the candles. One has to modify their procedures as the weather changes, especially from hot weather to cold. Pouring in a room that is 85°F and 80% humidity is quite different from pouring in the same room at 70°F with 10% humidity!

BTW, I think that's an 8 in the lot number and not a B...

I would be happy to test a sample of the wax from that lot against what I have here... (none of the same lot numbers), but I honestly think the problem is with procedure and not with the formula because I have experienced this type of structure and tops on the candles and have found a solution by changing the way I was handling the wax.

In a nutshell, I use 1 oz. PP of FO, USA @ 1 Tbsp./PP and 1/8 tsp./PP UV additive. I put it all in the Presto together and melt the wax to 195°F, stirring occasionally. I drop the temp to 120°F, stirring occasionally, then constantly as the wax clouds. The texture looks satiny, not grainy and no bubbles. Can either turn off at this point and reheat in the future OR heat the wax to 185°F and add it to the pour pots containing the FO & dye. I stir constantly until the temp reaches 160-165°F. I pour at that temp into CLEAN, warm containers. I keep a thermometer in the Presto and the pour pot and I live by them!

If the room is warm, I cool on cookie racks covered loosely by a few paper towels (the wicks hold the paper towels up). If the room is cool, I either cover the candles with a LARGE box (8" above the candles) or place them in a prewarmed oven (turn off when the candles go in).

PS Regarding temperature & heating wax. Prestos & turkey fryers have elements that are either on or off - the thermostat controls how hot the contents become. This does not mean that the ELEMENT only goes up to 200°F when it is set for that temp!!! The elements are MUCH hotter than 200°F!! At the bottom where the elements are located, the wax can be MUCH hotter than up top. I have noted this often by letting the presto sit undisturbed, checking the temp (candy thermometer that stays in the Presto about halfway to the bottom), then stirring - the temp goes UP!! This is why stirring is so important to keep the wax moving so NONE of it becomes overheated. Stir often and live by your thermometer - NOT the thermostat!!

Edited October 3, 2009 by Stella1952

[deb426]

I'm on my 5th or 6th case of the lot number ending in 06 which I assume was produced just after yours and everything has been fine. My tops are smooth, no bubbles and no problems at all.

Deb

[I love candles]

I am not sure of my lot number right now (would have to look when I get home) but I haven't had any issues with the wax. My frosting issues result from the way it is cooling I believe. I am one of the people who had the "soapy" wax from a bad batch and there is a big difference in what I have now versus that. I hope your issues get resolved!

[Sabrina]

I'll take a pic of one of what it's doing tomorrow (if I can remember to take my camera to the store) to show ya'll what it's doing to me. I have a hard time this has anything to do with how I'm preparing or pouring considering I've used thhis wax for going on 6 years and never encountered this. This is like air bubbles on steroids and not on the tops. It's on the sides of the containers and once the candle is being burned they rise up and create all the "soapy" looking bubbles on top.

I did figure out what was causing the huge flames. I had gotten some ECO wicks from CS instead of my norm BC and have linked the problem to the different suppliers and where they're having their wicks manuf. at. Once I put BC's back in the wax they've performed the same as always (thank god!)

This is very frustrating because I never had this issue before they switched manuf. Air bubbles and frosting have always been a squark of C-3 which I've always just delt with because the throw far outways it...but these are not even close to sellable.

I'll try to remember to take my camera with me tomorrow and get a pic of what it's doing. Thanks for the input! These cases were from July (that's when I ordered them anyways) and I'm going to have to reorder soon.... I was just hoping this wasn't still going on and that maybe I had gotten some of the old stuff that was being discussed. I've almost gotten through it all so I will be happy go lucky if the new wax I order goes right back to the normal annoying air bubbles and regular frosting. LOL

[Stella1952]

Air bubbles and frosting have always been a squark of C-3

We have had our share of difficulties from time to time with C3, but I cannot blame it on the wax - it was how we were handling it. Once we learned what it "likes," we have found it to be very reliable.

[LeahRB]

In my environment heating it to 190 and pouring at 180 works the best. I had the same bubble problem until I raised my heating and pouring temp. HTH

[Sabrina]

I have have played with this wax over the years so many ways melting it as high as 200 and as low as 150. Pouring from 100 to immedietly after stirring in fragrances all year long and the only thing I've ever gotten to work for me to get rid of the air bubbles is to stir very slowly, and to tap like the dickens after stirring, after letting it set, and also after pouring. That's what I mean about "quark".... it's something to deal with. It's not just a heat up mix and pour wax for me.

This is still not normal. It's as if the wax is drying out where the new "issue" is setting itself in place. I'm just going to call Elevance today since I've received no emails back from them. Thanks for all the help and input.