2rottndogs Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I'll make a short story even shorter. I was looking into liability insurance for my very small candle business. I approached my local agent who handles my insurance for my home, my jeep, my husband's truck and my salon.She tells me she'll look into finding me a company that will handle my candles. A couple of days go by and then I get a letter from her. She tells me in the letter that it's been almost impossible for her to find an insurance company for a reasonable premium. The premium she thought she could get was about $400... the premium from the 1 company that was willing to take on this kind of business was almost $1000.Direct quote from the letter..."...apparently there have been some major fire losses associated with this type of business so unfortunately, the premium would not be $400. I actually had a difficult time finding a company willing to do this at all."Is this the same reason everyone else is getting that has trouble getting insurance?Debbie (insurance agent) expressed a concern of someone burning a candle inappropriately. I'm going to talk with her on Monday and express my concern that a candle appropriately labled with burning directions... such as... "never leave unattended"... how does it become my responsibility?How does moronic actions dictate that I'm at fault? You leave your candle burning and go out to dinner... I'm going to have a hard time swallowing that I'm somehow at fault for the burning of your home.This insurance crap has been very frustrating and I have an opportunity to expand into a local store. I'm reluctant to make that huge step because of insurance.Just had to vent some of this... it's been eating at me for days.Kimberly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntoniasCreations Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Sorry, I feel your pain. For the last two months I have been calling everyone to get quotes and the CHEAPEST one I got was $910 which is just crazy to me. I am now working with my insurance company to see what they can do, hopefully something a lot better than $910. Good luck to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissMary Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Don't overlook local companies either. They don't have "big fancy nationwide names", but can be VERY reasonable with a long and good history in the community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.S. Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 How does moronic actions dictate that I'm at fault? You leave your candle burning and go out to dinner... I'm going to have a hard time swallowing that I'm somehow at fault for the burning of your home.I agree with you completely, but the answer to your question above is that they drag you into court anyways, and even though you should probably win, the insurance company still ends up racking up tens of thousands of dollars in lawyers fees. A damn shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbiepql Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 There is always the Handmade Soap Maker's Guild and the Indie Beauty Network, they are both reasonable. Then there is the American Crafter Council and I have mine through Erie, but I had to call the main office to find a local agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2rottndogs Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 Well I've got to be honest all... when I'm dealing with an agent that has access to MANY insurance companies, I'm at a loss when I'm told not only do they not want to handle my business but that I can't get a reasonable rate. I want to go through someone local so I can ask questions when I have problems...plus I like the fact that they get to know me and me them. I guess I'll have to call other agents and see what they come up with. I hate to squash my dreams of expanding because of this. One other question...how many people are selling without insurance right now? Kimberly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adillenal Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Well, my local insurance agent for the past 8 years just messed me up bigtime over a change in coverage and I had to straighten it out with the head office myself. So knowing your local agent and them knowing you might not be much use. I personally like the Handcrafted Soap Makers Guild Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane42 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 We have had two fires in the area due to candles I don't know all the details, but it does make you worry about what could happen. As has already been stated, you may have a chance of winning your case, but it costs money.I wouldn't sell without the insurance. I just cannot risk what my husband and I have worked for all these years from a business that, as of yet, I have not earned one penny from... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbiepql Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Well I've got to be honest all... when I'm dealing with an agent that has access to MANY insurance companies, I'm at a loss when I'm told not only do they not want to handle my business but that I can't get a reasonable rate.I want to go through someone local so I can ask questions when I have problems...plus I like the fact that they get to know me and me them.Not all agents can sell all insurance lines. Many "local agents" are selling lines of insurance that everyone has, home, auto, life, etc. Product liability insurance is not an everyday line, and most companies that do carry don't utilize insurance brokers/agents. I called four local Erie agents and they did not even know that their company offered product liability insurance. I finally called the main office and they found an agent that was new in my town that would take the time to investigate and he found an underwriter in the company and they wrote the policy. That being said - he had never heard of Erie writing product liability policies until he asked around. The other guilds/organizations that offer insurance are cheaper than my "local agent" and I will be changing soon, as Erie will not touch soap or B&B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberly Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Well I've got to be honest all... when I'm dealing with an agent that has access to MANY insurance companies, I'm at a loss when I'm told not only do they not want to handle my business but that I can't get a reasonable rate.I want to go through someone local so I can ask questions when I have problems...plus I like the fact that they get to know me and me them.I guess I'll have to call other agents and see what they come up with. I hate to squash my dreams of expanding because of this.One other question...how many people are selling without insurance right now?KimberlyIt is just the fact that YOUR Agent cannot write your policy. Obviously, your Agent is in the same boat I am. I am an Insurance Agent and the company I write for will not cover this sort of risk. Luckily, I had a contact who specializes in Business Ins and he was able to hook me up. Look in your local phone book...or ask around...Who does most of the Business Ins in your area? Most major companies will not cover an exposure like Chandlers....look at some smaller Mutual Companies. Afordable Ins is out there, it just takes a little work to find it. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2rottndogs Posted January 4, 2009 Author Share Posted January 4, 2009 I talked with a friend of mine in NY that makes candles and I talked with Beth from the insurance agency that I've been dealing with... I'm going to probably go with Indie.Beth says that Debbie would encourage me to find someone cheaper even if it's not through them.Kimberly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Does anyone know if an Umbrella Liability policy would provide liability coverage for candles sales? Any agents out there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissMary Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Most umbrella's I've came across, specifically exclude candles made by the policy holder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hometowncandles Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I don't know about other insurance companies, but my company(KY Farm Bureau) offers a policy that will cover product liability and shop liability under one policy. I just have to have a shop established with my business name, it can be as simple as one of those throw together buildings you can buy, and it can even be on my personal property beside my house, but I have to have a phone and electricity in my business name. By doing this my premium would go from $1,000+ per year, just for product liability, to around $450 per year for everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.S. Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I don't know about other insurance companies, but my company(KY Farm Bureau) offers a policy that will cover product liability and shop liability under one policy. I just have to have a shop established with my business name, it can be as simple as one of those throw together buildings you can buy, and it can even be on my personal property beside my house, but I have to have a phone and electricity in my business name. By doing this my premium would go from $1,000+ per year, just for product liability, to around $450 per year for everything.I'm interested in this, as this is the path I think I'm heading down. How is "shop" defined? As in workshop or store? And do you have to worry about zoning?I'm thinking of building a workshop in my garage (which is detached from the house). An this would be a good way to go for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hometowncandles Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 I'm sure it may vary from company to company, but my agent said it just needs to be a building not attached to my house. And you have to be able to show that it is a business, not just a building sitting in your back yard. He said the only thing needed to do that is a phone and electricity running to the building that's in the business name. You don't have to have water or a bathroom or anything since I wouldn't be selling or preparing food. I haven't done it yet, because it's going to cost a small fortune to have the electric company come set a pole in our yard to run the electricity. And since this is something that's just borderline hobby to me, it's just not worth it. But DH is wanting to build a garage around back, next to my building, so he will need electricity for that. But I would definately check it out, it couldn't hurt. Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.S. Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 I'm sure it may vary from company to company, but my agent said it just needs to be a building not attached to my house. And you have to be able to show that it is a business, not just a building sitting in your back yard. He said the only thing needed to do that is a phone and electricity running to the building that's in the business name. You don't have to have water or a bathroom or anything since I wouldn't be selling or preparing food. I haven't done it yet, because it's going to cost a small fortune to have the electric company come set a pole in our yard to run the electricity. And since this is something that's just borderline hobby to me, it's just not worth it. But DH is wanting to build a garage around back, next to my building, so he will need electricity for that. But I would definately check it out, it couldn't hurt. Good LuckI spoke with the agent that I'm getting my product liability insurance through and told her I was thinking about doing something like this. She said that that would open a lot of options for me. She didn't mention that it would have to be in the business's name though. Hope that doesn't cause a problem, cause I don't care to go to the city to get a zoning change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Most umbrella's I've came across, specifically exclude candles made by the policy holder.Thanks, MissMary, I figured as much. Coconut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberly Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Does anyone know if an Umbrella Liability policy would provide liability coverage for candles sales? Any agents out there?Yep, Agent right here. No. A Personal Umbrella Policy will not cover a business venture. Makes no difference if it is candles or if you are a Consultant of some sort. A PUP is meant to cover PERSONAL liability exposures like home, auto, boat...NOT business.Hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberly Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I spoke with the agent that I'm getting my product liability insurance through and told her I was thinking about doing something like this. She said that that would open a lot of options for me. She didn't mention that it would have to be in the business's name though. Hope that doesn't cause a problem, cause I don't care to go to the city to get a zoning change.Just an FYI...this differs with each company and each state. Always ask your Agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissMary Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Yep, Agent right here. No. A Personal Umbrella Policy will not cover a business venture. Makes no difference if it is candles or if you are a Consultant of some sort. A PUP is meant to cover PERSONAL liability exposures like home, auto, boat...NOT business.Hope this helps!There are Business Umbrella Policies too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberly Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 There are Business Umbrella Policies too.Of course there are Business Umbrella Policies, but the normal Joe on the street will not pay the premium for a Business Umbrella, nor do they need it. A large percentage of the population have Personal Umbrella Policies, so that is what I was addressing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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