Pillar makers - wick your mold or use wickpins?

[Stella1952]

We have this guy who comes on the board every couple of years, posts manically for a week or two, then disappears. After his most recent visit, it sounds like Stella has adopted his entombed wick tab technique, which I've never understood. If the wick stops 1/4 to 1/2 inch short of the bottom of the pillar, what's the point of also having a tab in there? Wick tabs buried in pillars is kind of a weird design.

Got news for ya, pal - we've been wickin' em like that for years, but it's always nice to meet a fellow entomber. Even better news - YOU don't have to wick 'em like that OR understand why I or anyone else would do such a weird thing. Maybe I just wanna make sure they won't go through a metal detector at the airport!

If you've gone to all the trouble of accomplishing that, there's no good reason to craft the final product like a cheap Chinese import with a hole through the center and a removable wick.

The wicks in my pillars are NOT removable nor does their craftsmanship in any way resemble a cheap Chinese import.

Have some pride and craft it like an expensive candle with a wick properly molded into it.

Your snotty, disparaging remarks are unwelcome, insulting and opinionated.

It's not that it encourages people, but it can be dangerous if they're not paying attention. The wax melts down to the surface the candle is sitting on and then feeds the flame through the hole in the sustainer base. When I experimented with making pillars using pins and wick assemblies, it happened every time I tested burning the candle all the way down.

I have NEVER had one do that because the way we wick does not allow the pillar to be burned all the way down to the surface on which the candle is setting!! The wick tab is set high so that the wax does not become liquid underneath it. ANY method of wicking pillars can be dangerous if people are not paying attention and burn pillars all the way down.

You can do that just as fast and have it even straighter and better centered.

And YOU are free to do things however YOU choose. YOU can even join the Olympic speed wicking team if YOU wish! It isn't all about speed or whether the wick is molded into the candle - it's about using techniques that feel right to the person making the candle AND turning out a safe, well burning, reliable, pleasing product. It isn't all about your opinions and the methods YOU approve!

[topofmurrayhill]

You're right, if the wick is short of the bottom it won't melt through, with or without the cracker jack wick tab surprise. I cut them short of the bottom too.

Here's a newsflash though. Pouring wax over the bottom of a primed wick doesn't make it hard to remove and neither does a pinched tab. Get a secure grip and pull. Trust me, you won't strain yourself. They won't be consistent either. A certain percentage may pull out way more easily than you expect.

Refer to Circle's comments and others earlier in the thread about how Chinese imports and cheap mass market pillars are made, then check out some quality domestic ones. That's just the reality of wick pins and/or wicks that are inserted after the candle is molded.

I don't mind being opinionated. It doesn't matter if a few people already set in their process are defensive about what they do. It doesn't matter if you or any one person prefers to be in denial about this particular quality factor. I think quite a few people who haven't thought about it before or are in the process of deciding will get the point.

There's not a single advantage under the sun to using wick pins for finished products for other people. Only disadvantages. It doesn't mean the product is of poor quality. It may just mean that a certain aspect of the crafting is not up to the quality of the rest of the design.

Edited January 14, 2010 by topofmurrayhill

[Stella1952]

Here's a newsflash though. Pouring wax over the bottom of a primed wick doesn't make it hard to remove and neither does a pinched tab. Get a secure grip and pull. Trust me, you won't strain yourself. They won't be consistent either. A certain percentage may pull out way more easily than you expect.

I'm glad you brought this up, as it is one of many factors that should be thought through when using this method of construction. Believe it or not, this already occurred to us and has been mitigated without your *newsflash*.

It doesn't matter if you or any one person prefers to be in denial about this particular quality factor.

Your presumption is insulting and your statement can be fired right back atcha. There ARE others who have the ability to think and troubleshoot issues.

There's not a single advantage under the sun to using wick pins for finished products for other people

Simply because things have always been done in a certain manner does not mean that that is the end of the discussion nor does it mean that innovation and application of different techniques will not cause previous standards of quality to be challenged or replaced. There are always those who hold onto the older ways of doing things and those individuals are simply unaccepting of change. You have decided that using wickpins is not acceptable to your definition of a quality product. You are not going to change your mind no matter what anyone says. That's your prerogative. Keeping one's mind open to innovation is how progress is accomplished.

[barncat]

I drill mine then seal it with a pillar sealer melter thingy at the bottom...im not sure whats its actually called LOL

[topofmurrayhill]

Stella will come around eventually, but this isn't directed at her. Just in general...

Practically all of us tried wick pins when they became widely available several years ago. After all, at first glance it seems like a good idea. I've gone through just about every method of molding pillars with a hole down the center and we've discussed every variation of technique and equipment here on the board, including the stuff from the EZ-wicking guy. In the end, there are good reasons why so many people kept on wicking molds or went back to it.

If you want to get true value out of a wick pin, seal up your wick holes and just throw them inside the mold. Then remove the finished candle and stick a wick assembly through it. It won't be the safest candle and it'll be made like a cheap import, but at least you'll save time and effort. Cheap is the whole point and advantage of wick pins.

However, if you want to make the candle look as good as possible and be as safe as possible, you'll want to use the wick pin on the outside of the mold. Then you have to seal it and stabilize it with putty. You'll also need a centering tool for the top of the mold because it can move around on the base and the pin doesn't automatically center. You'll also have to devise a method of inserting and securing the wick so it doesn't come out too easily and doesn't have a wick tab exposed at the bottom.

Once you've addressed all that and are doing so much work to prepare your pours, you've lost the whole point of using the pins. There's no remaining advantage in time, materials, aesthetics, safety, quality or anything whatsoever in using them. You could more easily have a pillar with the wick permanently and properly molded in, straight and center, with no screwy design features, like all the best quality candles do.

So that's why wick pins never totally caught on for actual production and never will. Unless you use them in the easiest way to intentionally make a cheapo design - which no handcrafter has any need to do - they don't do anything useful for you.

A piece of metal tape to secure the wick at the bottom. A centering tool at the other end with a clothespin or alligator clip to hold the wick. Done.

[scentsationaldelites]

I'm curious to know if those of you who use wick pins in your molds poke relief holes while the candle is setting up?

[Gbhunter]

There's not a single advantage under the sun to using wick pins for finished products for other people. Only disadvantages. It doesn't mean the product is of poor quality. It may just mean that a certain aspect of the crafting is not up to the quality of the rest of the design.

I never had any problems that you mentioned with wick pins.

I don't sell the candles so I dont give a $$^# what they will look like for 10 seconds before I burn them. If it burns and looks nice doing so. Also I tried both with and with out a wick pin.. the burn was identical.

by the way those cheap candles fly off the shelves like crazy at most stores..many people yould love to have those kinds of sales.

But what do I care I just make them fo me and will use what is easies to me.

Edited October 21, 2010 by Gbhunter

[Gbhunter]

I'm curious to know if those of you who use wick pins in your molds poke relief holes while the candle is setting up?

yes for me

[Gbhunter]

I just wanted to thank you guys for your input. I've been messing around with soy wax pillars for years now - adding beeswax and para just lately and thinking of starting palm cuz I obviously up for a challenge! I am still flustered with wicking and well I'm stubborn and not going to give up. I have always used wickpins but now I think I will try wicking the molds themselves. I have metal tape and plumber's putty (any homeowner's secret weapon besides duct tape!) so I'm set.

The only question I have though is on occasion I have let the pillar burn to "the bitter end" as Topp put so eloquently put it and I FREAKED out!! I had like a mini fire in there cuz the bottom burnt out and I was burning the whole wick that was left floatin in the MP that was directly on the plate I was burning and OMG - I just freaked! lol How do you trim the wick on the bottom so this doesn't happen. I know I want no tail candles but how do you get that close to the wax without damaging the wax?? Is there some special tool that I don't have in my arsenal?? It feels like a dumb question to me but I'm just used to doing containers and this isn't a worry with those...

TIA

Tish

I burn down to 2/3 of and inch maybe 1/3 then its done.

[bart70]

Wick pins for me.

I dont have a problem with wicks falling out - I have developed a process that waxes and holds the wicks in place as well as if they were poured in situ.

I use specially made perspex wick pins that are grooved to fit the moulds. I never have a problem with an óff centre' wick as the wick pin 'locks' into the top of the mould.

The wick pins and wick sizes are similar - very few people even realise that they are made this way (in fact most people who ask about how they are made believe they are moulded in).

I use pre-coated wicks.

Rob

[Stella1952]

I'm curious to know if those of you who use wick pins in your molds poke relief holes while the candle is setting up?

Yes, I do. Absolutely no problems.

[scentsationaldelites]

Yes, I do. Absolutely no problems.

Thanks Stella. I do too, but was wondering if anyone else does.

[grama]

I use wick pins, see nothing wrong with them, don't plan on changing and Yes I also poke relief holes, a lot and real often.

[Dusty]

Well said all round Stella:DI have used both methods and find wick pins are far more accurate for centering wicks. My wicks fit perfectly - I use a hotplate to smooth off the bottom of the candle. Never had a problem with the wick falling out etc

I don't feel I am making inferior or cheap candles:confused: - but I am 'down under' and we sometimes do things different!

[Gucci]

I've been using wick pins for years, relief holes often and a high collared wick tab. I do a lot of slanted and specialty pillars and found wicking the mold lead to alot of frustration and occasional binge drinking

I agree totally with Gbhunter, whether that's considered poor quality or not, they sell. In the end, while we all may be in the same industry, we all have our own distinct style and preferences.

[comfortscents]

I use cotton wicking so I seldom use wick pins plus for me sometimes the large wick pins look tilted after several uses, plus if it a tall pillar sometimes threading the wick up I hit some bump and ruin the wick

[Stella1952]

When wicking candles through a hole, it's far easier to use primed wicking. It is much stiffer and threads quite easily. If a wickpin gets bent slightly, it isn't too difficult to straighten it. I check mine before pouring the candle so the wick hole doesn't come out off-center.