Casey Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 Okay, So I applied to a farmers market craft fair, they wanted to know the source of and if the soy is certified organic, and were possibly gonna reject my app based on that contingency. I was a bit taken aback, I really hadn't considered that aspect, more focusing on candle performance rather than crop sources. Plus having to give up my source just like that felt a little weird. I did it, cuz I want in, so I printed and faxed some of the literature directly from the NGI site, says no genetically modified materials, but nothing about being certified organic. So they called NGI 3x and got no response. Anyone know? Have any comments? Say for instance that the crops ARE organic, can the altered product of the final wax then be certified as well, or is that not really even possible? Found out today they're accepting me anyway, but I'm a little concerned about what to say to the intensly savy crowd I expect to be selling to. Ruminate with me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scentlady Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 On NGI website there's a place to ask Dr Al, under technical support, and he usually answers within a day or so. He was very helpful when I asked a question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siberia Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 Casey, if you do ask Dr. Al, could you post back here with his answer. I'm curious as well. Thanks!Kimberly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravo5 Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 I contacted NGI awhile ago to find out if their waxes were organic and was told that they are NOT. I'd be interested if there is any new info now, though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravo5 Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 Bumping this...Any word from NGI yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 Bumping this...Any word from NGI yet?Dude, give it up. If EcoSoya waxes were organic, believe me you wouldn't have to chase them down to find out. They'd make sure everybody knew and charge accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tealfrank Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 Hello! I just made my first candle this past weekend and I'm hooked! This is what I want to do when I grow up...at least that's what I told my 18 year-old son.Anyway, I want to make my candles as natural as possible. I found one website that uses ORGANIC soy wax. Wheather or not they wholesale remains to be seen.http://lumia.us/about.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted November 15, 2005 Author Share Posted November 15, 2005 They don't seem to be selling wax, just candles, but it's an interesting link anyway, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fern-Marie Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Organic implies 'live micro-organisms'....like manure - that is organic. However, now-a-days, ppl use 'organic' to describe what should be described as 'Natural', and is accepted as such. Once something is processed, like soy beans, to the point where we use it to make candles...it really, technically, is not organic, it is no longer alive, and in it's purest form. Soy is grown in America - by American farmers, therefore supports American Soy Farmers, and it is a natural product.It is a vegetable ...I would think that the farmer's would appreciate that fact.Fern-Marie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFTS Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Organic has become a certification program in the US as to how things are raised or farmed, processed etc. There's lots of info out there, here's one sitehttp://www.ams.usda.gov/nop/Consumers/brochure.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinInOR Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 That would be great if soy waxes were starting to be developed that were certified organic - that would make a lot of people happy. That link is the first time I've seen supposedly organic wax - if true, that's cool.Right now a lot of soy, if not most, is genetically modified by Monsanto, so even though it's "natural" ie plant based, the *really* strict organic type people might have a problem with it. But it depends if they take their concerns all the way down to the candle level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annanded Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 I too have been checking into organic wax. I have a huge opportunity to make candles from essential oil for a local Naturopath but she says that soy is the most toxic substance in the world? (well, something like that) I know most soy is produced from Roundup-Ready seed anymore. (We farm and produce it ourselves actually) I know she would still be interested even if the cost is higher.Is Beeswax Organic? I can't believe the website above doesn't sell the wax. It seems like they could really cash in. I am going to e-mail them and see what they say. I will post again if I receive a reply.Sorry for the long post. If anyone out there has info on suppliers of organic wax I would love to hear from you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 I like to think the potential to cash in on organic wax is limited, as that would truly represent the lunatic fringe of candlemaking. Marketing hype upon marketing hype, as it were.However, I think we are safe because there probably isn't much of a market for soy wax over $100 a case. It's one thing to pay extra for something you eat, but this would literally be burning money.I'm not clear on whether hydrogenation is even allowed for 100% organic products. If not, then at best the wax could be labeled as being made from organic ingredients. That would entail not only using an organic soybean crop, but also expeller-pressing the oil from the beans. VERY costly stuff to use only as a fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fern-Marie Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Can the wax still be considered "organic" after it has been heated and FO added?If it helps at all, many of the soys I have are clearly marked K on the box...they're Kosher. So, not being Jewish but understanding what that all entails,tell her that you answer to 'An even higher authority", and if it's good enough for God...!ok, I'm tryingto be helpful. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 I did a little more poking around and my take on the situation is that, at best, soy wax could be made from organic soy oil. However, the wax itself will never be an organic product because it's synthesized by hydrogenating the oil. Organic foods can't contain hydrogenated oils.There are some organic shortenings out there but I don't know exactly what they all are. You can get solids out of palm and coconut and I think maybe that's what they come from. Maybe organic palm wax is a possiblity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon in KY Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 From my neck of the woods "organic" can mean no pesticides used in the growth of such plants/veggies/animals. To me it means a biotanical product."Organic...involving the use of food produced with the use of feed or fertilizer of plant or animal origin without employment of chemically formulated fertilizers, growth stimulants, antibiotics, or pesticides." Dictionary.com one of many answersWhy would they ask this is it some kind of farmers maket? Cause I can't think of any other reason to be organic except for food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candlewitch Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Your assumption may be correct, there is Organic Palm in Malysia, and there is no petro in the processing of it. So, Bingo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystical_angel1219 Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 You can buy organic soy oil for B&B- and it is priced accordingly.Organic soy wax would be ungodly expensive if it is available.I'll check around and report back if I find any. Results of a quick Google:: https://securewsch01.websitecomplete.com/Lumiaus/shop/showDept.asp?dept=14Ok, these peeps sell "organic" candles. Yeah, umm.. ok. They even went as far to buy the domain www.organicwax.com and it points back to their site. Interesting. They claim they developed this process.Anyone that took on the expense of doing organic candles would certainly not be using a website complete program. They would hire the best web designer they could afford~ IMO, and have several domains.I don't know if it is fact or fiction.If those candles were truly certified organic, they would be a cash cow. Also, they would have the seal posted somewhere on the site. Who knows, looks like market fluff to me. Plus the candles are rather inexpensive, IMO. Anything organic commands a much higher price tag- especially certified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stacien Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Organic implies 'live micro-organisms'....like manure - that is organic. However, now-a-days, ppl use 'organic' to describe what should be described as 'Natural', and is accepted as such. Once something is processed, like soy beans, to the point where we use it to make candles...it really, technically, is not organic, it is no longer alive, and in it's purest form. Soy is grown in America - by American farmers, therefore supports American Soy Farmers, and it is a natural product.It is a vegetable ...I would think that the farmer's would appreciate that fact.Fern-MarieYou go girlfriend. I agree. I just saw a huge display at the Museum of Science and Industry applauding Soy Beans and the multiple uses they have. It happened to be in the agricultural exhibit of the zoo. Every other word in their postings was American Farmer. Organic is usually more observed with naturalists and hippies. Not farmers. That was just their round about way of saying "Oh no not another soy candle maker!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stacien Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 You can buy organic soy oil for B&B- and it is priced accordingly.Organic soy wax would be ungodly expensive if it is available.I'll check around and report back if I find any. Results of a quick Google:: https://securewsch01.websitecomplete.com/Lumiaus/shop/showDept.asp?dept=14Ok, these peeps sell "organic" candles. Yeah, umm.. ok. They even went as far to buy the domain www.organicwax.com and it points back to their site. Interesting. They claim they developed this process.Anyone that took on the expense of doing organic candles would certainly not be using a website complete program. They would hire the best web designer they could afford~ IMO, and have several domains.I don't know if it is fact or fiction.If those candles were truly certified organic, they would be a cash cow. Also, they would have the seal posted somewhere on the site. Who knows, looks like market fluff to me. Plus the candles are rather inexpensive, IMO. Anything organic commands a much higher price tag- especially certified.Did you happen to notice how vibrantly colored the candles were for being organic. I would think purely organic candles would have no pigments at all. Those are not earthly colors either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystical_angel1219 Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Did you happen to notice how vibrantly colored the candles were for being organic. I would think purely organic candles would have no pigments at all. Those are not earthly colors either.Yes indeed. I was browsing the site further, and found a candle labeled "certified organic".https://securewsch01.websitecomplete.com/Lumiaus/shop/ProductPage.asp?prod=36They could be using natural colorants used in CP soaps~ beet powder, paprika and other spices & powdered botanicals.I don't think these types of colorants would blend well with soy wax. What throws caution to the wind IMO is that it is stated they use essential oils in the candles. Why wouldn't you use organic essential oils? Not all EO is expensive, some of them are less per pound than a quality fragance oil. I don't see Italian Bergamot, Neroli or Bourbon Geranium being used, these are spendy if they are quality "true" EO's. In any event, those candles are mega cheap if they are organic, even if they are just regular soy.I have some of that crackle glass, it is very thin and prone to breakage.I am going to check into this further when I have some spare time.Not this site, of course. I really don't think true organic soy wax is readily available. However, I could be wrong.Edited for television. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 I really don't think true organic soy is readily available. However, I could be wrong.Organic soy oil is available. But that's a liquid and has to be turned into a solid. If you hydrogenate it, it's not organic anymore according to the law.On the other hand, the law is about food. If you're not selling food maybe you can say whatever you want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystical_angel1219 Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Organic soy oil is available. But that's a liquid and has to be turned into a solid. If you hydrogenate it, it's not organic anymore according to the law.On the other hand, the law is about food. If you're not selling food maybe you can say whatever you want to.Let me be more specific, as I already stated organic soy oil was available.I have some here... LOL! Perhaps I should use better wording, huh? :rolleyes2 The whole thing is a bit strange.I know for sure there are very strict guidelines for labeling anything organic.I don't any seals or association emblems on that site. It could be just a marketing gimmick for the extra crunchy candle consumer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsbennis Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 IMO...just a marketing ploy...once the oil is hydronated like top said it is no longer organic and since they do not have any certifications justifying them authentic they can say whatever they want as long as at least one ingredient is organic. It happens all the time in the B&B arena! It's called "Green Washing" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candlewitch Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 But you missed that Palm wax can be certified Organic. Check and call ALoha Bay candles for more information, i knew this 3 years ago, they had it done for them and know alot more about it, I forget the fellow I talked too. But hey, I only post non-sense anyway right? :rolleyes2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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