LPENDA Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 On average if a candle requires a CD 20, for example, would it take a CDN 20 as well? Or does the coating bring it up or down size wise in comparison? Trying to find a starting point.Much thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 Start with the size you'd use for a CD and go up/down from there... They are EXACTLY the same wicks except for the acid-resisting treatment applied to CDNs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPENDA Posted July 19, 2008 Author Share Posted July 19, 2008 Thanks so much, Stella.Every step saved is money saved. 8-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 Every step saved is money saved. 8-)???You WILL have to test for yourself so you haven't saved a thing.You said the same thing about HTPs here...http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73151How's about comparing sizes using a distributor's sizing guide? Here's a link to nearly every wick under the sun and the recommendations for its use - perhaps you should bookmark it... it's been posted at least 30 times in this forum!http://www.wickit.net/products.html#s_cdHTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPENDA Posted July 19, 2008 Author Share Posted July 19, 2008 How lovely of you to try to help me Stella! I have found most manufacturer's and distributor's sizing guides totally ineffective information. It might be because of the configuration of wax that we use, but I have yet to find a resource that was anywhere near accurate for our needs. Obviously, any alterations to any candle must be tested. However, all the information I have received is very valuable, in that, the correct wick size can be approximated more accurately. The fewer test candles it takes for me to get to the right size wick, the less time and money expended in that process. Very simple economics really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.S. Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 I can tell you that CD12 from BCN or BCS is not the same as CDN 12 from GreenLeaf. There is a big difference, I haven't tried yet, but I think I would have to wick up to about CDN 20 from Greenleaf to get the same performance. Yup they were that different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPENDA Posted July 19, 2008 Author Share Posted July 19, 2008 That's great to know!Thanks for taking the time to help me. I really appreciate the input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.S. Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 But that doesn't mean that ALL of them are like that. Stella's experience is that they match up well. I'm not sure exactly what is happening between BCS and Greenleaf that they are that different, but it's very clear from looking at them, and my test burn proved that they are very different even though the numbers are the same.Test, test, test! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndulgentCreations Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 ???How's about comparing sizes using a distributor's sizing guide? Here's a link to nearly every wick under the sun and the recommendations for its use - perhaps you should bookmark it... it's been posted at least 30 times in this forum!http://www.wickit.net/products.html#s_cdHTHBeing a newbie, I'm glad you posted that link. Just starting out with candles and have yet to come across that link...at least I don't think I have...been doing a aweful lot of reading and searching though, LOL. Anyways, thanks!April Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 I have NOT tested CDs and CDNs side-by-side. On the occasions when I have used CDs, I start with what I would use in a CDN and "bracket" that on either side. For example, if I think a 6 would work in a CDN, I make testers with a CD 5, 6, and 7. While the charts are quite general (because of the different styles of containers and blends of waxes), they are a good starting point and help when making comparisons between dissimilar wicks or ones with which one is unfamiliar. R.S., CDs and CDNs (Stabilo & Stabilo KST) are the same except for the acid-resisting treatment applied to the CDNs (for more information about CDN wick treatment & how it's applied, click here and select "All about the wick", then scroll down to "The Purpose of Wick Treatment"), HOWEVER, the priming wax applied to them (post-manufacturing) might be different and cause performance variance between same type/size wicks purchased from different suppliers depending on what coating they are ordering from their wick distributor. Take a look at the choices of wick wax that are offered by WickIt and Wicks Unlimited and I think you'll see what I mean... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.S. Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 I have NOT tested CDs and CDNs side-by-side. On the occasions when I have used CDs, I start with what I would use in a CDN and "bracket" that on either side. For example, if I think a 6 would work in a CDN, I make testers with a CD 5, 6, and 7. While the charts are quite general (because of the different styles of containers and blends of waxes), they are a good starting point and help when making comparisons between dissimilar wicks or ones with which one is unfamiliar. R.S., CDs and CDNs (Stabilo & Stabilo KST) are the same except for the acid-resisting treatment applied to the CDNs (for more information about CDN wick treatment & how it's applied, click here and select "All about the wick", then scroll down to "The Purpose of Wick Treatment"), HOWEVER, the priming wax applied to them (post-manufacturing) might be different and cause performance variance between same type/size wicks purchased from different suppliers depending on what coating they are ordering from their wick distributor. Take a look at the choices of wick wax that are offered by WickIt and Wicks Unlimited and I think you'll see what I mean... Yes, I understand your point, but these are waaaaayyyy different, to the point that there has to be something else going on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobcanldle Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 I am making the switch to CSN's from CD's and I can tell you that there seems to be no correlation in size between my CD wicks from wholesale supplies and the CSN wicks from candle science. The CD wicks are huge in comparison. I am using a CSN 14 or 16 for 6oz tins!! I have a CSN 22 in a tumbler with a 3 1/8" opening right now, but it is a torch! I will be trying the CDN's from JBN because candlescience doesn't offer anything bewteen a 16 and a 22. The problem is I don't know what to get from JBN because I don't know how there wicks compare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPENDA Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share Posted July 21, 2008 I believe the ones from Candle Science (CSN) are made for use specifically in palm wax, aren't they? That might account for some of the difference?It's my understanding that CDs and CDNs are more foumulated for soy usage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 The problem is I don't know what to get from JBN because I don't know how there wicks compare.Check the links I posted above and look at the charts! This isn't that tough! CSNs are a Wedo wick that Candlescience had designed for use with their palm wax products. Many people like them a lot, so look at the CS website and follow their recommendations as a starting point. Their sizes do not necessarily correspond with CDs & CDNs.I am using a CSN 14 or 16 for 6oz tins!! I have a CSN 22 in a tumbler with a 3 1/8" opening right now, but it is a torch! Are you using the CSNs for palm wax? If so, you might want to search the forums as there is a lot of discussion about wicking palm and especially about Glass Glow. Palm wax is quite different from other types of wax. CDN 16s and above are generally for pillars & containers over 3" in diameter... but that depends, too, on the shape of the container, the depth of the container and the wax and FO you are using... without knowing what wax you are using, it's kinda hard to assist... CDNs, because of the acid-resisting treatment, are ideal for veggie waxes. I use them in both soy and palm waxes with great success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Yes, I understand your point, but these are waaaaayyyy different, to the point that there has to be something else going on here.There may not be anything else going on. They are the same exact wick with a different chemical treatment. The treatment can make a difference or not, depending on the wax and fragrance. When it makes a difference, it can make a big difference. But in some cases it can make no difference at all.I was once testing LX wicks in a pillar with and without the NST2 treatment. Exact same wick size, one flame was twice as tall as the other.When I tested CD vs. CDN in CB-135 wax, they performed about the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPENDA Posted July 22, 2008 Author Share Posted July 22, 2008 Folks-Everyone's input is valuable. I think most of us take direction from this conversation, not finite answers. That's what I was originally looking for.The closer we get in the initial testing, the less product and time expended.:smiley2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Thanks, Top. Sorry about that, R.S. - I misread your question and thought you meant CDs from different suppliers not behaving the same... :rolleyes2 Time to clean the glasses and vacuum the brain pan...:embarasse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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