question about canes

[snow]

I've asked this question before and I checked my notes and its not there. Sometimes when I do a photo cane I get these little white marks and cracks inside the cane. It doesn't happen all the time, but its a real pain in the butt when it does because I always rip the photo off and start over. Heres what I do...3# of 5055 and add micro 180 @ 3%. Heat to 200 and add photo at 190, oh and I also add a little mold release. Spray mold with a tad of mold release too. Then I put it into a water bath @70 degrees. So what do you think is causing this? Yesterday I made one for a wedding gift, the photo looked great, real pretty candle done in red and white but I could never sell one with those little cracks and white marks. DARN! Makes me mad! Any one know what the problem is? TIA

[Connie]

The only time I got cracks was when I left in the frig a little to long to unmold it.

[SatinDucky]

Are you talking about the snow looking stuff inside? Mine always get that. I don't worry too much about it. I zap the inside and melt the surface layer off. Perfect finish

[Donita]

I don't use mold release in my wax. The white marks are probably mottling. Don't use the mold release....if that doesn't work try adding a speck more 180....just a speck. That helps to stop the mottling. Tap the mold too so the air bubbles come out. Also....make sure that the picture sits in the wax long enough to get out the trapped air. Sharyl does hers way in advance.......I just put mine in the wax for about 5 minutes and then use it. Donita

[SatinDucky]

I don't use mold release in my wax. The white marks are probably mottling. Don't use the mold release.

I don't use "mold release" but I do use Pam, generic of course..lol. Would a very light coating of spray on the mold itself cause the mottling on the walls just inside the cane?

It seems like if it was air from the picture, it would be mostly on that side of the shell. Actually I get it inside even on plain shells that have nothing embedded. Then again... she may be talking about something else...

[sharyl55]

There is a powder mold release that can be added to the wax. That is what Donita is referencing. I do use 1/2 tsp pp of wax. I haven't had a problem with cracks. If I get any mottling I do the same as you, SD, hit it with the heat gun. A touch more micro 180 should take care of the cracks. I use 3.1 to 3.3% micro 180.

[SatinDucky]

Ahh, that makes sense! Thanks Sharyl

[Donita]

Years ago when I was using the Saturn molds I would get the "lines of bubbles" I didn't know that it was mottling. That is one reason that I love making my orbs with balloons. I don't have that problem anymore. Has something to do with the cooling of the wax. When it sits in a mold and cools quickly....that is keeping the wax from mottlimg.... When I do it with the balloons...it cools quickly and...."no mottle"... Wax is so finicky. The micro stopped it completely from happening. I don't really understand what you have happening. It's not just on the inside where a heat gun can smooth it out....it is in the wax......I know what you mean.

Could be the wax. Every formula that is made is a little different. Unfortunately, we little candle makers can't have the wax made "for us"....we have to get the wax that is available and learn to make it work for us. The huge candle companies can have it made to specific instructions....we just get the generic. So the beat goes on.............................Donita

[snow]

The spots are in the wax, if I had to heat gun them away I think it would be to much. It doesn't happen all the time. As it starts to cool I can see them forming. Mostly looks like mottling and then sometimes like cracks. When I do the seashell canes this never happens, go figure. Just with the pics. I heat to 200 and let it cool down to 190. add the pic into the mold and swish it around to get the air bubbles off. Then I start to embed it. Using the ice cube method. When it looks good in the water it goes. It makes me crazy. Could it be with the cooling process? Somehow cooling to slow as thats when they start to form, I don't know!!

[sharyl55]

Dee, it could be weather related. Do you have more problems on warm or cold days. On cold days I make sure my water bath is at least 80 degrees.

[Donita]

Of course there is a difference with the photo cane and the sea shell ones. When you pour in the hot wax over shells, it cools quickly. When a candle takes longer to cool....that is how mottling works. To make a mottled candle it is good to let them cool slowly so the mottle works it way to the surface of the candle. So to stop the mottle do it backward. Cool faster. I am pretty sure you are dealing with a temperature problem. Winter is different than summer too. Play with the water bath temp and see what happens. You don't want it real cold or the wax will actually crack....but it you let it cool slowly you allow time for it to mottle. It really is a balancing act. Donita

[snow]

Of course there is a difference with the photo cane and the sea shell ones. When you pour in the hot wax over shells, it cools quickly. When a candle takes longer to cool....that is how mottling works. To make a mottled candle it is good to let them cool slowly so the mottle works it way to the surface of the candle. So to stop the mottle do it backward. Cool faster. I am pretty sure you are dealing with a temperature problem. Winter is different than summer too. Play with the water bath temp and see what happens. You don't want it real cold or the wax will actually crack....but it you let it cool slowly you allow time for it to mottle. It really is a balancing act. Donita

Donita, My water bath is 70 degrees..maybe the wax is too hot? When you remove it from the water, does it matter at that point how slow or fast it continues to cool? After the water bath is when I can see the mottling start, about 10 mins after it is out of the water. Some little thing is probably causing this, probably not a big deal, just a pain in the butt!

[Donita]

Sure it does. The temperature in the room will change how quickly the wax cools. I am planning on some experiments with new wax from Swans. I will make notes along the way. I will be sure to check the temp of the room and the temp of the wax and water and WRITE IT DOWN......(smile)........here we go again ......Donita

[SatinDucky]

This may be way off base, but....

If the wax is just mottling, why not add a little vybar to it?

[Donita]

Maybe a small amount of vybar could help.....but then you start to loose the translucency. Sometimes I have used just a few grains and it will stop the mottle. It could just be that this batch of wax needs some added attention. Usually it doesn't but there is no guarantee that when we order wax that it IDENTICAL to the last batch. And the beat goes on...........................

I remember when I was doing the orbs in the Saturn molds that I had that problem. I don't think at the time I was using micro 180.....might have been but not sure....anyway....letting the orbs cool in the plastic molds took a long time as opposed to doing the balloon orbs. I got those white marks and lines with the molds. SD.....I know you use the Saturn molds. Have you noticed any problems? With the balloons I have absolutely no problems. Chemistry was never my best subject in school.....I preferred lunch time. (smile) Donita

[SatinDucky]

I use the metal saturn molds. But then I float them in the water bath until the wall gets the thickness I want. I always have the "snow clumps" inside, but it's just the inside surface. Since I zap them anyway to get the opening shaped the size and look I want, I just zap the inside too. It also helps me make the flat wax base inside for the tealites to sit on. So it all works out good. Besides I just love playing with my heat gun , so it gives me another excuse to play. Now if I was trying to produce them quickly in large quantities, that would be another story

I still use the 1260 though, with nothing added but UV.

[Donita]

I know what you mean about clumps inside....it's just lumpy wax....not cracks or mottles. You are water bathing them so it cools quickly.....room temp cooling encourages mottling if the wax has a tendency to do that. But, again, it isn't always our fault....sometimes the wax is bad. I zap all of my canes with the heat gun.....I love to play with mine too (smile) Donita

[snow]

Ok, after playing around today, I think I might have figured out what I was doing wrong. NOT leaving it in the water bath long enough, thus causing it to cool slower once removed, and thats when I started to see the mottle. I did 2 today and left the second one in the bath a little longer and no mottle....but the first one has it, it wasn't in the bath as long. Does that make sense? The light bulb came on....once removed from the water it slowed the cooling process, makes sense to me! Hopefully I got it now. Now if they come out of the molds I'll be in great shape! Wish me luck....thanks for all your comments and input, it all helped.

[blondiee]

Since I zap them anyway to get the opening shaped the size and look I want, I just zap the inside too. It also helps me make the flat wax base inside for the tealites to sit on. So it all works out good. Besides I just love playing with my heat gun , so it gives me another excuse to play.

I made my very 1st orb with a metal Saturn last weekend, and it was quite obvious that the heat gun was going to be needed. But unlike you and Donita, I'm a little scared of it. :embarasse Does the melted wax just drip down to the bottom and cool? I made a few forever candles and ended up with wax "drips" on the outer edges - not the look I was going for!!

[SatinDucky]

I made my very 1st orb with a metal Saturn last weekend, and it was quite obvious that the heat gun was going to be needed. But unlike you and Donita, I'm a little scared of it. :embarasse Does the melted wax just drip down to the bottom and cool? I made a few forever candles and ended up with wax "drips" on the outer edges - not the look I was going for!!

I'm guessing on the pillar you were trying to just "fix" the outside a little bit? Doesn't work very well that way as you found out.

On the shells you have to get heavy handed with that heat gun. Repeat after me... my heat gun is my friend.... :DTalk soothing to it, keep it close and use it often. Most important... respect it's power and danger.

When you clean up the shell, be prepared to take at least 1/8" to 1/4" off. I usually end up taking 1/4" or more off, inside and out. The key to a smooth finish is to keep heating and rotating as the wax melts off. The entire shell will become soft. Start at the top all the way around and slowly work your way down. Don't let it cool down and harden in the middle, while the drips and runs are soft they will melt off easier. Once you get most of it smooth run it over the whole thing while warm and you shouldn't have any drips, they will just blend in with the melting wax.

Since I don't know what you're going to do with the shell, here's a possible tip. If you're planning on putting flowers or something outside, you'll be over dipping it afterwards anyway so the surface doesn't have to be perfect. If there are any small lumps, trim them off while warm so that it's level. Dipping will cover the difference int he finish there.

Here's a picture of my set up I use. The shell is on a tuna can turned upside down for the excess wax to drain off. The pan underneath is a stainless steel stove burner cover sitting on a lazy susan. For the longest time I just set the can in an empty aluminum pie tin and turned by hand. It works ok too, but the turn table is so much easier. I do trim the seam off with a knife before I start zapping it though. This I haven't started on yet. You can see kinda how thick the shell is when I start. Most people probably don't have them this thick, but... as I said, I love playing with my heat gun I find it very relaxing just heating, pouring out wax, heating pouring out wax (inside work). I do clean up the inside and take out most of the extra thickness in there first, then do the outside. That way I don't mess up the finish while playing inside. The shell on the left is finished, you can see the difference in thickness. Though towards the top, the shell is thinner. The bottom has about 1.5" of solid wax left in it.

Now that I've written a whole dang book here...lol, maybe the info you wanted is buried in that somewhere.

PS.. ignore the mess on my bench :rolleyes2

[sharyl55]

Great tips SD. Gotta love those hat guns.

[blondiee]

Thanx SD - you answered more than one question in there - even the ones I couldn't really express!!!

And the picture - worth a thousand words!

I'm still not sure about that heat gun, but I definitely DO respect it!!

I took a few pix that I wanted to post in the Gallery - that's how I discovered just how unfriendly Vista can really be. I've been fighting with getting my "device" recognized for a solid week now! UGH!!!

So I'm going to spend the weekend trying new things with wax and maybe even my "friend" the heat gun!!

Thanx again - you're the best!

[snow]

I'm guessing on the pillar you were trying to just "fix" the outside a little bit? Doesn't work very well that way as you found out.

On the shells you have to get heavy handed with that heat gun. Repeat after me... my heat gun is my friend.... :DTalk soothing to it, keep it close and use it often. Most important... respect it's power and danger.

When you clean up the shell, be prepared to take at least 1/8" to 1/4" off. I usually end up taking 1/4" or more off, inside and out. The key to a smooth finish is to keep heating and rotating as the wax melts off. The entire shell will become soft. Start at the top all the way around and slowly work your way down. Don't let it cool down and harden in the middle, while the drips and runs are soft they will melt off easier. Once you get most of it smooth run it over the whole thing while warm and you shouldn't have any drips, they will just blend in with the melting wax.

Since I don't know what you're going to do with the shell, here's a possible tip. If you're planning on putting flowers or something outside, you'll be over dipping it afterwards anyway so the surface doesn't have to be perfect. If there are any small lumps, trim them off while warm so that it's level. Dipping will cover the difference int he finish there.

Here's a picture of my set up I use. The shell is on a tuna can turned upside down for the excess wax to drain off. The pan underneath is a stainless steel stove burner cover sitting on a lazy susan. For the longest time I just set the can in an empty aluminum pie tin and turned by hand. It works ok too, but the turn table is so much easier. I do trim the seam off with a knife before I start zapping it though. This I haven't started on yet. You can see kinda how thick the shell is when I start. Most people probably don't have them this thick, but... as I said, I love playing with my heat gun I find it very relaxing just heating, pouring out wax, heating pouring out wax (inside work). I do clean up the inside and take out most of the extra thickness in there first, then do the outside. That way I don't mess up the finish while playing inside. The shell on the left is finished, you can see the difference in thickness. Though towards the top, the shell is thinner. The bottom has about 1.5" of solid wax left in it.

Now that I've written a whole dang book here...lol, maybe the info you wanted is buried in that somewhere.

PS.. ignore the mess on my bench :rolleyes2

I do my shells the same way (LOVE the heat gun too) but I haven't got a lazy susan yet. I melt off quite a bit too...if I'm gonna put a decal on I don't melt from the top because I want the top part real smooth so the decal will go on smooth. I just keep going around with the heat gun where the shells are to expose as much as I want, and dont keep the heat gun in one place to long! I love seeing how it all comes to life with that heat gun! It's my favorite part, its always a surprise to see how the shells are placed....:rolleyes2

[Donita]

Don't fear the heat gun. He really isn't a bad guy....just have to keep an eye on him (smile)......You should have seen me the first time I tried mine......I cheated and made my daughter do it first. I whip that thing around now like it's a hair dryer. But I do respect it. I also use a large metal or glass platter under some of my candles. When I am melting off wax from a shell cane, the melted wax drips onto the platter which sits on top of the lazy susan and then when the wax is cool, I can lift it off, re melt it and us it again. Donita